2016-17 English Premier League Discussion Thread

[No_20]

Terry only performed in a deep block system. Was terrible under AVB and his high line, the same defensive system that Guardiola plays.

And why isnt Guardiola a defensive mastermind? You do realize Bayern broke the Bundesliga record for fewest goals conceded last season? Only 17. His Barca teams also defended very well. He played Yaya Toure at CB and Sylvinho at LB in the 2009 CL final and they still managed to shut down a Man Utd team with Ronaldo, Rooney and Tevez up front.

[Foye]

Good job on ignoring facts.
Heynckes took over a squad that finished 3rd behind Dortmund and Leverkusen in 2010/11 and was eliminated in round of 16 by an Inter team that lost 3:7 to Schalke 04.
Within one year he had them being competitive with Dortmund again and they reached the UCL final...which is an amazing job.
2nd year he has them winning every single competition possible in dominant fashion. Within not even two years Heynckes created a super team.

Guardiola meanwhile took this dominant team, was granted millions of €'s on top (more than they ever made available for Heynckes) to buy players....all that only to be embarrassed by Spanish teams in the semi finals three years in a row.

Let's not forget that Van Gaal took that same Bayern team to a Double + CL final the season before.

So it was Van Gaal who started it all. Also to say they didnt give Heynckes millioner to buy players is false. They gave him Neuer, Boateng, Martinez(massive fee), Mandzukic, Luiz Gustavo etc.

Also losing a league title when you are Bayern manager is worse than losing to Spanish top teams. Bayern simply faced teams that were better in 2014 and especially Barcelona in 2015. Much better Barca team that the one Heynckes faced in 2013. Atletico last year was disappointing but it's small margins. Müller scores that pen and Bayern probably win that match 4-0/5-0.

Still proves Foye's point that Heynckes:
a) Built this squad that Guardiola managed to not win a CL with even though it was damn near perfect.
b)That Heynckes was the catalyst for Boateng being a WC defender, all Guardiola had to do was sit and let him mature.

I have given up on him understanding it, though. Had that discussion way too often now.
Heynckes came and built a top squad that won it all.
Guardiola had his fortune made for him by Heynckes and failed to reach the goal of building a European dynasty by a wiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii[insert as many more i's as you can]de margin.

[treiz]

Terry only performed in a deep block system. Was terrible under AVB and his high line, the same defensive system that Guardiola plays.

And why isnt Guardiola a defensive mastermind? You do realize Bayern broke the Bundesliga record for fewest goals conceded last season? Only 17. His Barca teams also defended very well. He played Yaya Toure at CB and Sylvinho at LB in the 2009 CL final and they still managed to shut down a Man Utd team with Ronaldo, Rooney and Tevez up front.

So what if it was a high line or not? I don't understand why that matters. At the end of the day Terry still played out of the back a lot under Ancelotti/Hiddink/Mourinho pt. 2. Adams and Campbell with Wenger and Rio with Fergie. These defenders still didn't just clear the ball like the stereotype that English defenders are wrongfully known for. They actually knew when to play the ball and when to clear it, again unlike Stones.

With Barcelona, their game was based on possession and keeping the ball 70% of the time, of course that's going to make your defence look great when there's rarely any chances going against you especially in La Liga. Just look at their defensive record in the CL and you'll see it's not that great, even in the group stages.

Playing Sylvinho and Yaya doesn't constitute to a defensive mastermind, in that case Di Matteo is a defensive mastermind after playing Ramires at RB and Bosingwa at CB against Barca in the semis that year we won and managed to only concede 1 goal with JT already been sent off.

Similar to what happened at Bayern, dominate the league and falter in the CL. It's not difficult to have a great defence when you're managing Bayern in the Bundesliga, I mean seriously just look at that team compared to the rest. It's not like he revolutionised Bayern's defence and they conceded 50 goals one year then as soon as he came they had the best record in the league. All he did was carry the torch that Heynckes set.

Mourinho on the other hand in his first year at Chelsea conceded the fewest goals in PL history in a season, that's a manager worthy of the title defensive mastermind.

[No_20]

Terry only performed in a deep block system. Was terrible under AVB and his high line, the same defensive system that Guardiola plays.

And why isnt Guardiola a defensive mastermind? You do realize Bayern broke the Bundesliga record for fewest goals conceded last season? Only 17. His Barca teams also defended very well. He played Yaya Toure at CB and Sylvinho at LB in the 2009 CL final and they still managed to shut down a Man Utd team with Ronaldo, Rooney and Tevez up front.

So what if it was a high line or not? I don't understand why that matters. At the end of the day Terry still played out of the back a lot under Ancelotti/Hiddink/Mourinho pt. 2. Adams and Campbell with Wenger and Rio with Fergie. These defenders still didn't just clear the ball like the stereotype that English defenders are wrongfully known for. They actually knew when to play the ball and when to clear it, again unlike Stones.

With Barcelona, their game was based on possession and keeping the ball 70% of the time, of course that's going to make your defence look great when there's rarely any chances going against you especially in La Liga. Just look at their defensive record in the CL and you'll see it's not that great, even in the group stages.

Playing Sylvinho and Yaya doesn't constitute to a defensive mastermind, in that case Di Matteo is a defensive mastermind after playing Ramires at RB and Bosingwa at CB against Barca in the semis that year we won and managed to only concede 1 goal with JT already been sent off.

Similar to what happened at Bayern, dominate the league and falter in the CL. It's not difficult to have a great defence when you're managing Bayern in the Bundesliga, I mean seriously just look at that team compared to the rest. It's not like he revolutionised Bayern's defence and they conceded 50 goals one year then as soon as he came they had the best record in the league. All he did was carry the torch that Heynckes set.

Mourinho on the other hand in his first year at Chelsea conceded the fewest goals in PL history in a season, that's a manager worthy of the title defensive mastermind.

Yes and you know why? Because the best way to defend is to keep the ball. Spain 2008, 2010 and 2012.

Silly to mention Di Matteo when Barca created loads of chances over the 2 legs. It all came down to choking from Barca players and great goalkeeping from Cech.

Seriously man, I dont know why you Chelsea fans in general have such a problem with Guardiola. Is it because he has crushed you lot in the past?(2009 CL semis, 2013 Super Cup)? Or is it because he rejected you before he came to Bayern? It's kinda weird.

[Baphomet]

Yes I'm sure Chelsea fans are incredibly bitter about losing a glorified friendly like the Super Cup of all things...

[treiz]

Terry only performed in a deep block system. Was terrible under AVB and his high line, the same defensive system that Guardiola plays.

And why isnt Guardiola a defensive mastermind? You do realize Bayern broke the Bundesliga record for fewest goals conceded last season? Only 17. His Barca teams also defended very well. He played Yaya Toure at CB and Sylvinho at LB in the 2009 CL final and they still managed to shut down a Man Utd team with Ronaldo, Rooney and Tevez up front.

So what if it was a high line or not? I don't understand why that matters. At the end of the day Terry still played out of the back a lot under Ancelotti/Hiddink/Mourinho pt. 2. Adams and Campbell with Wenger and Rio with Fergie. These defenders still didn't just clear the ball like the stereotype that English defenders are wrongfully known for. They actually knew when to play the ball and when to clear it, again unlike Stones.

With Barcelona, their game was based on possession and keeping the ball 70% of the time, of course that's going to make your defence look great when there's rarely any chances going against you especially in La Liga. Just look at their defensive record in the CL and you'll see it's not that great, even in the group stages.

Playing Sylvinho and Yaya doesn't constitute to a defensive mastermind, in that case Di Matteo is a defensive mastermind after playing Ramires at RB and Bosingwa at CB against Barca in the semis that year we won and managed to only concede 1 goal with JT already been sent off.

Similar to what happened at Bayern, dominate the league and falter in the CL. It's not difficult to have a great defence when you're managing Bayern in the Bundesliga, I mean seriously just look at that team compared to the rest. It's not like he revolutionised Bayern's defence and they conceded 50 goals one year then as soon as he came they had the best record in the league. All he did was carry the torch that Heynckes set.

Mourinho on the other hand in his first year at Chelsea conceded the fewest goals in PL history in a season, that's a manager worthy of the title defensive mastermind.

Yes and you know why? Because the best way to defend is to keep the ball. Spain 2008, 2010 and 2012.

Silly to mention Di Matteo when Barca created loads of chances over the 2 legs. It all came down to choking from Barca players and great goalkeeping from Cech.

Seriously man, I dont know why you Chelsea fans in general have such a problem with Guardiola. Is it because he has crushed you lot in the past?(2009 CL semis, 2013 Super Cup)? Or is it because he rejected you before he came to Bayern? It's kinda weird.

That doesn't mean that they're the best defensive team, it just means that they keep possession well. You look at the likes of Barca/Bayern and even Spain in recent times and it's clearly obvious that there's two ways to counter them. One is to play everyone behind the ball which mostly works for many of the really small teams. But when it comes to the bigger teams (Real, Atletico etc). Some of the problems they've had facing these teams is when they take it to them and press a Guardiola defence as shown by the incredibly poor defensive records Guardiola's team tend to have in the CL. The fact that they can't deal with a team with a higher quality than the likes of Levante or Mainz should tell you that there's a problem there defensively when their gameplan isn't working.

They hardly created anything in those two legs, they had some pot shots here and there but it was probably a couple of chances at best. Just because it says shots on target doesn't mean it was a chance. That was the series when Barcelona couldn't get past a defence of Ramires-Bosingwa-Mikel-Cole. Surely that makes Di Matteo a defensive genius by your standards. Cech hardly had to anything in those 2 legs.

I don't have a problem with him, just find him really overrated, he inherited great teams and whilst I give him credit for pushing Barcelona to the next level, he failed with Bayern despite having the best team in the world. This City team will prove whether he's actually a good or great manager.

Yeah the Super Cup man, that loss was really disheartening....

[fatlever]

the 2009 CL semis between Barca and Chelsea, AKA the worst officiated game of significance I've watched in my adult life? That game?

[No_20]

the 2009 CL semis between Barca and Chelsea, AKA the worst officiated game of significance I've watched in my adult life? That game?

But they scored with a man less.

[Baphomet]

Looks like David Moyes is in at Sunderland to replace Allardyce.

[Next Coming]

People actually fixing their thumbs to say Pep created Boateng. I'm logging back out.

[HIF]

British championship final tonight!

[HIF]

So Baph what did you make of the Spurs game today?

I only remembered in time to watch the last 15mins.

How was Lemina for Juve?

[Baphomet]

So Baph what did you make of the Spurs game today?

I only remembered in time to watch the last 15mins.

How was Lemina for Juve?

We put out a pretty sub-standard team, honestly. I don't think Tom Carroll or Mason are good enough for a team that has consistent Champions League aspirations, and we should sell them off to Hull. I've honestly never seen Miller before, and Carter-Vickers/Ball didn't give much to shout about. Wanyama was pretty solid. Lamela made an instant impact when he was introduced and is really a budding star for us these days, the quality of play was also far better from us in the second half.

I wasn't paying much attention to the Juve lads, to be fair.

[HIF]

Anyone interested in EPL prediction league like I set up for the euros?

[Baphomet]

Anyone interested in EPL prediction league like I set up for the euros?

I'll definitely be doing FPL again this year, but I'm not sure if I'd join a predictor league for a whole league campaign personally. The Euros were fun, though.

[WorldBeFree]

I play fpl too so could join the league if there is one!

[No_20]

Mourinho: "This is the only country where everybody wants this(Leicester winning the league) to happen, and it's the only country where the football structures allow this to happen.

"In other countries the powerful clubs don't want this to happen - they don't want to share the money, the television rights.

"In the other countries they want to be comfortable and know that they are always the top clubs, in the Champions League. They want it to be a competition of two, three or four and, if possible, just a competition of one. This is a special country.

"Around Europe you have people who when you listen to them it looks like they are the Mother Teresa in football - but they aren't.

"You go to many countries and clearly they are happy the way they are. It's not just about them being powerful, it's also going to the clubs that can be direct competition for them and every season steal the best players.

"They don't want a league. In this country everyone wants a league and this allows an amazing story like the Leicester one, which brings even more credibility to the Premier League. It is why the Premier League is the Premier League."

[Baphomet]

I think he has a fairly good point, but the 'steal the best players' thing he speaks of still happens in the Premier League.

Not sure what the Mother Teresa comment is about.

[Foye]

He means Rummenigge with that mother teresa comment for sure lol

[Merc_Porto]

Mother Teresa comment is about Barcelona.