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He has accomplised everything in European soccer; but his performance was very disappointing in last summer's World Cup.

Can he maintain this level of play for the WC in 2014?

Certainly the best I've seen, but maybe Cruyff, Puskas and/or Di Stefano have a case

He's 23, and his performance wasn't disappointing. He's just not as good as Maradona...yet (??)

Not yet. Di Stefano, Puskas, Best, Cruyff, Zico, Van Basten, Maldini - those are his peers atm.

He's not even in best soccer age and you already think he's never going to win it...

So far yeah, it'd be very disappointing if he doesn't win the WC, he just seems destined for it.

treiz wrote:So far yeah, it'd be very disappointing if he doesn't win the WC, he just seems destined for it.

Really? With how he's played for Argentina I just don't get that vibe from him, he's just not the same player outside of the Barca kit. If he played more like the guy he is for Barca I could see him winning a cup before his career is over, but that would involve Argentina building a better team to support him that would let him run wild up front and so far he hasn't really impressed me in Argentina's shirt.

After watching the U20 Brazilian side and the young German senior side this WC, I can't see Argentina winning the WC anytime soon.

5DOM wrote:After watching the U20 Brazilian side and the young German senior side this WC, I can't see Argentina winning the WC anytime soon.

*Shrug* if they can develop a midfield to support him and get him in Barca form they'll have a good shot, but I don't know of any young guys who they have who can step into the roles that Macherano and Cambiasso should be filling for them. And some kind of defense would be nice, granted we somehow made a run to the semi's with Mertesacker and Friedrich, but that's not something a team should be able to do.

A good test will be had in the Copa America if he's turned the corner with the national team. I made this video showing all the things he's overcome already...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0H9RQLzoC2E

...Success on the national side is next to come!

cgf wrote:

treiz wrote:So far yeah, it'd be very disappointing if he doesn't win the WC, he just seems destined for it.

Really? With how he's played for Argentina I just don't get that vibe from him, he's just not the same player outside of the Barca kit. If he played more like the guy he is for Barca I could see him winning a cup before his career is over, but that would involve Argentina building a better team to support him that would let him run wild up front and so far he hasn't really impressed me in Argentina's shirt.

He's the same player for both.

Lionel Messi wrote:

cgf wrote:

treiz wrote:So far yeah, it'd be very disappointing if he doesn't win the WC, he just seems destined for it.

Really? With how he's played for Argentina I just don't get that vibe from him, he's just not the same player outside of the Barca kit. If he played more like the guy he is for Barca I could see him winning a cup before his career is over, but that would involve Argentina building a better team to support him that would let him run wild up front and so far he hasn't really impressed me in Argentina's shirt.

He's the same player for both.

The same can be said about Ronaldinho, played great for barca but never up to par with brazil, sure he had some memorable moments, but was never really consistent, Messi is young tho, he has that on his side

Barcelona: 269 games, 180 goals, 73 assists
Argentina: 55 games, 16 goals, 11 assists

Not that Messi isn't great, but I think it's pretty clear that he's not as good playing for the NT even without having to look at those numbers.

He's the same player though. Different roles, teammates and opposition.

He doesn't somehow start playing worse for Argentina. He was great during the WC but he didn't score. The only game they lost he had no chance of winning for them.

When I watch him play for Argentina, I don't go into the games saying "oh I hope he shows up". I go in thinking "Damn, I hope he scores an amazing early goal because I'm not confident that players a, b, c and d will show up."

Lionel Messi wrote:He's the same player though. Different roles, teammates and opposition.

He doesn't somehow start playing worse for Argentina. He was great during the WC but he didn't score. The only game they lost he had no chance of winning for them.

When I watch him play for Argentina, I don't go into the games saying "oh I hope he shows up". I go in thinking "Damn, I hope he scores an amazing early goal because I'm not confident that players a, b, c and d will show up."

Of course. Messi is just too good of a player to not show up in any game. But I think even you can admit that he doesn't dominate the game like he does in Barca when he plays for Argentina. I'm not sure what you meant by "he's the same player though" either. If you meant that in the most literal sense, that's kinda obvious.... Now you can blame his teammates, but it works both ways as Messi probably has the best supporting cast at club level.

Lionel Messi wrote:He's the same player though. Different roles, teammates and opposition.

He doesn't somehow start playing worse for Argentina. He was great during the WC but he didn't score. The only game they lost he had no chance of winning for them.

When I watch him play for Argentina, I don't go into the games saying "oh I hope he shows up". I go in thinking "Damn, I hope he scores an amazing early goal because I'm not confident that players a, b, c and d will show up."

He's no where near as effective for the national side. The talent is still there, but because the support isn't as exceptional he's presented with far less opportunities to...do his thing. That's why I say it's a different Messi, because he has only a fraction of the same impact on the game. It's certainly not his fault that the rest of the team **** the bed around him, that D was embarrassing at the WC, but his impact is minimized as well.

Really? You have the guys Point Forward mentioned. If Messi continues this performance for 7-8 years and still doesn't win a World Cup by the time he retires, he might be in that group.

cgf wrote:

treiz wrote:So far yeah, it'd be very disappointing if he doesn't win the WC, he just seems destined for it.

Really? With how he's played for Argentina I just don't get that vibe from him, he's just not the same player outside of the Barca kit. If he played more like the guy he is for Barca I could see him winning a cup before his career is over, but that would involve Argentina building a better team to support him that would let him run wild up front and so far he hasn't really impressed me in Argentina's shirt.

I know he hasn't impressed on an international level yet, but the guy is 23. He still has at least 2 WCs in him, and as long as he's on that team, they will always be contenders for the major trophies at international level. As long as they give him a good manager/coach, I think his supporting cast is more than capable, they can definitely do some damage.

Messi played good soccer at WC.

Argentina was terrible, no tactical organization at all.

Arguably "ever" it would be hard to say, he would possibly be in the mix no doubt. Paolo Maldini is probably the greatest all-round in my opinion (I'm an AC milan fan go figure ) to never win a world cup.