Is Xavi still a top 5 player in the world?

[ardee]

Ronaldo and Messi obviously have the first two spots locked up. Conventional wisdom used to put Xavi at no. 3, but now it seems he's being challenged.

Do you still think he's among the five best players alive?

[5DOM]

He looked exhausted near the end of the season.

Messi, Ronaldo and Iniesta are clearly ahead of him at this point IMO, and as far as CM's go, I would put him alongside Modric and Pirlo. Not sure about top 5, but I would say top 10 for sure.

[Brt19]

Iniesta and van Persie are locks too. I'd say he is 5th but players like Silva are really close to him.

[Kahn_2001]

I would put Iniesta ahead of him, there is really no way to make a list. There are so many great players, you can make an argument for atleast 10 players outside of the top 2.

[cgf]

Iniesta's pretty clearly in the top 3 for me, even after a less stellar season. After that it really gets messy, Xavi's certainly up there but so are Pirlo, Schweini, Oezil, Lahm, RvP, David Silva, Yaya Toure, Modric, Marchisio, etc.

[ATL Boy]

Agreed that Iniesta is number 3 but I do think that Xavi is top 5, in my opinion hes the best playmaker in the world and hes the focal point of the Barcalona offense, (every offensive possestion goes through him and he picks out perfect passes to get his teammates in the clear) I respect Van Persie and all but I still think that Xavi is superior to him as a player because RvP was the man in Arsenal and alot was created for him this season because he was the go to guy, if Persie went to say Man City then he wont nearly have as good of an individual season as he just had because of the competition he would face in City with Aguero, Dzeko, and Balloteli all wearing sky blue. In my opinion Ozil takes the other top 5 spot because he does much of the same stuff Xavi does, he just isnt on Xavis level as of yet but hes only 23 and will get there in a year or 2. But this is just my opinion

[Next Coming]

I thought his performance at the Euro's validated his place in the Top 5. I have it ranked 1. Messi 2. Cristiano 3. Iniesta 4. Xavi 5. Ozil

[ardee]

What's with all the Iniesta love? He was incredible in the 2011 season, but he was injured for a large part of 2012 and didn't return to top form until the Euros. I don't believe one good tournament should vaunt him over the likes of van Persie and Ibrahimovic, who were beasting from beginning to end for much weaker teams.

I'd go:

1. Ronaldo
2. Messi
3. van Persie
4. Ibrahimovic
5. Xavi/Ozil

Iniesta is closer to the bottom of the top 10. I just didn't see the consistency of impact throughout the season until the Euros (when I will definitely admit he was reminiscent of Zidane).

[_SRV_]

Ozil, RVP and Ibrahimovitch over Inniesta
Inniesta co-led (i.e was top 3 player on the team) Spain to 3 consecutive title, and Barca to 3 consecutive league title and 2 CLs, while displaying some genius football. Inniesta is clearly the #3 player in the world right now.
Casillias is an amazing goalie, one of the best I've seen, he should get a mention, he saved Real from many sure goals and has his name on many wins.
After Messi, Ronaldo and Inniesta it gets crowded, there's Rooney, RVP, Casillias and Xavi, Xavi looked exhausted by the end of this season, and in the middle of the season when Real opened their 10 points gap, he wasn't brilliant either, I think he's on the verge of clearly dropping out of the top 5, that if he isn't out of there already.
P.S. I'd like to see the argument in rating Ronaldo over Messi.

[ardee]

Ozil, RVP and Ibrahimovitch over Inniesta
Inniesta co-led (i.e was top 3 player on the team) Spain to 3 consecutive title, and Barca to 3 consecutive league title and 2 CLs, while displaying some genius football. Inniesta is clearly the #3 player in the world right now.
Casillias is an amazing goalie, one of the best I've seen, he should get a mention, he saved Real from many sure goals and has his name on many wins.
After Messi, Ronaldo and Inniesta it gets crowded, there's Rooney, RVP, Casillias and Xavi, Xavi looked exhausted by the end of this season, and in the middle of the season when Real opened their 10 points gap, he wasn't brilliant either, I think he's on the verge of clearly dropping out of the top 5, that if he isn't out of there already.
P.S. I'd like to see the argument in rating Ronaldo over Messi.

Did you even read what I said?

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/player/_/i ... ta?cc=4716

He started only 21 La Liga matches last season. How can you rank someone so high when he's not on the pitch for enough time to consistently have that kind of impact?

One good tournament doesn't justify placing him over people who were incredible all season long.

Ibrahimovc basically took Milan to second place by himself.

Pato was injured basically the full season, he played only 11 games in Serie A. Robinho was very inconsistent. Cassano's heart problems meant he also missed most of the season.

The onus of carrying the entire Milan attack was on Zlatan, and he did so in spectacular fashion. 35 goals and 14 assists in the extremely defensive Serie A speaks for itself... Just wait and see how they collapse without him. He was brilliant for Sweden as well in the Euros (did you see the France match?).

With Van Persie it's basically the same story, but his team was even worse.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011%E2%80 ... s_by_round

Just look at how they kept climbing the table. It was all because of van Persie's goals. The entire attack went through him. He played every game for Arsenal and single-handedly saved their season. I'm an Arsenal fan and watched pretty much every game. It's easy for a Ronaldo or a Messi to score 50 goals when Ozil/Xavi and Iniesta/Kaka and Benzema/Sanchez are keeping defenses honest and opening up space for them. With RvP, the defense is swarming him at every moment, because without him to provide a spark Arsenal just looked broken.

You're going by reputation, not by performance. The fact that Iniesta led Spain to 3 championships doesn't change that he was injured for nearly half the season.

Rooney should not be in the top 5 discussion. Players like Silva, Yaya Toure, and Ozil need a mention. Toure in particular.

[ATL Boy]

P.S. I'd like to see the argument in rating Ronaldo over Messi.

Ill bite on this, well Ronaldo is a player on basically a 3 man team in Real Madrid (him, Casillas and Ozil, sure Benzema and Di Maria are great but these 3 carry the team with Ronaldo being the man) where as Messi is on a Barca team that gift raps most of the chances for him; Messi has Xavi and Iniesta who are 2 amazing playmakers (not to mention other passing Mid fielders such as Fabregas and Busquets) and he showed in the WC and the Copa America that he does have a dependence on his World Class Barca Mid Field, where as Ronaldo carries Portugal on his back in big competitions and Qualifiers. Both are great on set pieces but Ronaldo can hit FKs from beyong 20 meters going up to 35 so I give him the edge in that category. Now imagine if Ronaldo played for Barca and Messi played for Madrid, Ronaldo would be winning all the titles and hed have the best Mid Field in the World setting him up where as Messi wouldnt be so great in Madrid with just Ozil (hed still be a great player but wouldnt be top 3 in the world)

[ardee]

P.S. I'd like to see the argument in rating Ronaldo over Messi.

Ronaldo in the big games of the season:

Madrid derby, need to maintain a lead over Barca: Hat-trick, arguably the best individual performance of the season.

In Classicos: He scored in both Copa del Ray legs, and also scored the La Liga winning goal at the Camp Nou.

Champion's League: Scored a brace in a match in every leg of the knockout round. He was basically responsible for dragging the Bayern tie to penalties.

Messi in big games of the season:

El Classicos: Didn't score even once, and didn't have any really notable performances.

Champion's League: Was absolutely neutered by Chelsea. Looked completely out of sorts and missed a penalty that would have won the tie. Ronaldo lost as well but he went away kicking and screaming, scoring 2 goals and making sure that Real took Bayern to the absolute limit.

Ronaldo for his country:

The sole true superstar attacker, after he rounded into form he dominated Holland and Croatia in arguably the best individual performances of the tournament and came within a penalty miss of beating the eventual champions Spain.

Messi for his country:

Plays for a loaded team with Aguero, Pastore, Higuain, Lavezzi, Tevez and di Maria. Not to mention other talented players like Mascherano, Maxi Rodriguez and Zabaleta. Yet he still was unable to spark his team at the Copa America, and his only good performance came against minnows Costa Rica.

The entire season, Ronaldo has raised his game in the important matches, and Messi has been feasting on weaker teams and folding when the cards are on the table.

Ronaldo scored 20 first goals this season in La Liga. The guy is not a front-runner, he just carries his team. He was the best player on the first team in European history to get 100 points in a 20 team league. Give credit where credit is due.

[_SRV_]

Did you even read what I said?

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/player/_/i ... ta?cc=4716

He started only 21 La Liga matches last season. How can you rank someone so high when he's not on the pitch for enough time to consistently have that kind of impact?

One good tournament doesn't justify placing him over people who were incredible all season long.

One good tournament? The rating is for how good he is right now, not how well he performed in La Liga last year...
Inniesta is a much much more accomplished player than the 3 you listed, is very creative and has been a top 3 player on every squad he played for in the last 5 years, there's absolutely no room for comparison, none.

[_SRV_]

P.S. I'd like to see the argument in rating Ronaldo over Messi.

Ronaldo in the big games of the season:

Madrid derby, need to maintain a lead over Barca: Hat-trick, arguably the best individual performance of the season.

In Classicos: He scored in both Copa del Ray legs, and also scored the La Liga winning goal at the Camp Nou.

Champion's League: Scored a brace in a match in every leg of the knockout round. He was basically responsible for dragging the Bayern tie to penalties.

Messi in big games of the season:

El Classicos: Didn't score even once, and didn't have any really notable performances.

Champion's League: Was absolutely neutered by Chelsea. Looked completely out of sorts and missed a penalty that would have won the tie. Ronaldo lost as well but he went away kicking and screaming, scoring 2 goals and making sure that Real took Bayern to the absolute limit.

Ronaldo for his country:

The sole true superstar attacker, after he rounded into form he dominated Holland and Croatia in arguably the best individual performances of the tournament and came within a penalty miss of beating the eventual champions Spain.

Messi for his country:

Plays for a loaded team with Aguero, Pastore, Higuain, Lavezzi, Tevez and di Maria. Not to mention other talented players like Mascherano, Maxi Rodriguez and Zabaleta. Yet he still was unable to spark his team at the Copa America, and his only good performance came against minnows Costa Rica.

The entire season, Ronaldo has raised his game in the important matches, and Messi has been feasting on weaker teams and folding when the cards are on the table.

Ronaldo scored 20 first goals this season in La Liga. The guy is not a front-runner, he just carries his team. He was the best player on the first team in European history to get 100 points in a 20 team league. Give credit where credit is due.

Messi has scored in 2 CL finals agaist ManU, while Ronaldo was nowhere to be found in the 1st one, Messi until last year has made a clown out of Ronaldo every time they faced each other, and you're taking last year only to compare them Barca has beat Real in Copa del Rey and Spanish cup last year.
Messi wasn't neutered against Chelsea, Chelsea advancement was nothing short of a miracle, 2 lucky goals, and some 1 in a million misses by Barca, Real lost to the better team against Bayern...

[_SRV_]

Ill bite on this, well Ronaldo is a player on basically a 3 man team in Real Madrid

Real Madrid is not a 3 man team, this is a ridiculous statement, Xavi Alonso, Sergio Ramos, Benzema, Di Maria, Kaka, Khedira are welomed in every top european squad.

[ardee]

P.S. I'd like to see the argument in rating Ronaldo over Messi.

Ronaldo in the big games of the season:

Madrid derby, need to maintain a lead over Barca: Hat-trick, arguably the best individual performance of the season.

In Classicos: He scored in both Copa del Ray legs, and also scored the La Liga winning goal at the Camp Nou.

Champion's League: Scored a brace in a match in every leg of the knockout round. He was basically responsible for dragging the Bayern tie to penalties.

Messi in big games of the season:

El Classicos: Didn't score even once, and didn't have any really notable performances.

Champion's League: Was absolutely neutered by Chelsea. Looked completely out of sorts and missed a penalty that would have won the tie. Ronaldo lost as well but he went away kicking and screaming, scoring 2 goals and making sure that Real took Bayern to the absolute limit.

Ronaldo for his country:

The sole true superstar attacker, after he rounded into form he dominated Holland and Croatia in arguably the best individual performances of the tournament and came within a penalty miss of beating the eventual champions Spain.

Messi for his country:

Plays for a loaded team with Aguero, Pastore, Higuain, Lavezzi, Tevez and di Maria. Not to mention other talented players like Mascherano, Maxi Rodriguez and Zabaleta. Yet he still was unable to spark his team at the Copa America, and his only good performance came against minnows Costa Rica.

The entire season, Ronaldo has raised his game in the important matches, and Messi has been feasting on weaker teams and folding when the cards are on the table.

Ronaldo scored 20 first goals this season in La Liga. The guy is not a front-runner, he just carries his team. He was the best player on the first team in European history to get 100 points in a 20 team league. Give credit where credit is due.

Messi has scored in 2 CL finals agaist ManU, while Ronaldo was nowhere to be found in the 1st one, Messi until last year has made a clown out of Ronaldo every time they faced each other, and you're taking last year only to compare them Barca has beat Real in Copa del Rey and Spanish cup last year.
Messi wasn't neutered against Chelsea, Chelsea advancement was nothing short of a miracle, 2 lucky goals, and some 1 in a million misses by Barca, Real lost to the better team against Bayern...

So how do performances in 2009 and 2011 seasons affect the level of impact he had in the 2012 season? Truth remains that Ronaldo was arguably the best big match player of 2012 along with Falcao, while Messi was nowhere to be found in the Classicos as well as against Chelsea.

So Chelsea actually beat Barcelona on aggregate, and their advancement was a miracle, while Real won the home leg 2-1 and lost on PENALTIES, and Bayern were the better team? That's interesting...

[BlackMamba]

Xavi, because of his age, lost a little bit of edge over the last year, that's when Iniesta stepped up and proved to be "better".

Don't forget that Xavi was THE player for Spain both in the 2008 EURO and 2010 WC.



And please, C.Ronaldo WILL NEVER be better than Messi. Why? Attitude. Messi doesn't care what the refs, what the cameras, what the girls say. He goes out and plays as good as he can.

[cgf]

Xavi, because of his age, lost a little bit of edge over the last year, that's when Iniesta stepped up and proved to be "better".

Don't forget that Xavi was THE player for Spain both in the 2008 EURO and 2010 WC.



And please, C.Ronaldo WILL NEVER be better than Messi. Why? Attitude. Messi doesn't care what the refs, what the cameras, what the girls say. He goes out and plays as good as he can.

I think Iniesta was more irreplaceable for Spain in 2010. *shrug* Xavi was a huge part of their possession-based play, but Iniesta was usually the one that made their goals and best chances happen. I don't really think either was "better" than the other in that tourney, but if I had to pick one it'd have been Iniesta.

Attitude is important...if it impacts your play. Ronaldo's attitude hasn't really stopped him from playing amazing or coming through in big games. So while I don't like him as a person, I don't really hold that against him on the field as I'm not a fan of Reals or Barcas, as a neutral he's an awesome talent to watch who works hard and covers a lot of ground, so the fact that I'd probably end up slapping him if we ever hung out, doesn't really matter. HIm and Messi are 1a and 1b whichever one you prefer.

The big question with this conversation is whether you attribute Xavi's weak, by his standards, season to not being healthy or to his age. If it's age then arguing he's top 5 is very hard cause you have to question how much better he's even able to play, if it was just flukey poor health then it's not hard to argue he can get back to where he once was. Right now I don't think he is, but he's in that second tier of phenomenal players.

My top 5:
1a. Messi
1b. C. Ronaldo
3. Iniesta
4. Oezil
5. Pirlo/RVP/Yaya Toure - can't pick between these players coming off amazing seasons. Pirlo leading Juve to an undefeated season, RVP dragging Arsenal to CL and Toure being the engine of an EPL winning ManCity. Each played phenomenal seasons, although I think RVP is the least likely to repeat his strong campaign next season.

[5DOM]

I don't see the issue with attitudes myself. Ronaldo's supposed to be a great teammate, has incredible work ethic, and does a lot of charity work himself. So I don't really see what the problem is. It's not his fault girls like him

[_SRV_]

So how do performances in 2009 and 2011 seasons affect the level of impact he had in the 2012 season? Truth remains that Ronaldo was arguably the best big match player of 2012 along with Falcao, while Messi was nowhere to be found in the Classicos as well as against Chelsea.

So Chelsea actually beat Barcelona on aggregate, and their advancement was a miracle, while Real won the home leg 2-1 and lost on PENALTIES, and Bayern were the better team? That's interesting...

Did you watch the games? catch a replay sometime and you'll see clearly what I'm talking about.

I don't see Ronaldo as a big match player really, in the first Classicos (the ones Real lost) he received a lot of criticism and Morinho had to actually come out and defend him, the league was lost for Barca long before the last Classico and even if they won back then they wouldn've won the title, that was not a big game.