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Going forward, whom do you think will be better?

Goetze, for no real reason as both are amazing.

I say Gotze because of I'm a Borussia homer but it's a serious toss up

Götze will be amazing one day. Haven't seen too much of Hazard yet, so I can't really judge him but from what I've heard he's going to be amazing, too.

Hazard is the biggest talent I have ever seen play in Ligue 1. And I saw Zidane, Henry, Trezeguet and basically any all-time great french players of the last two decades... neither of them were as strong this young... but you know Zidane was a very very hard working guy and became a legend of the legend but he was "just" a very good youngster.

I think Hazard is more proven now. But let's see what Gotze will show after Kagawa left. He has more responsability now, he's the clear cut best player on Dortmund, like Hazard has been his entire carreer.

bbms wrote:I think Hazard is more proven now. But let's see what Gotze will show after Kagawa left. He has more responsability now, he's the clear cut best player on Dortmund, like Hazard has been his entire carreer.

...what? Goetze's got a year and a half of exceptional play in a much tougher league. And Reus > Kagawa.

French league is tougher than German league IMO.

Massimo wrote:French league is tougher than German league IMO.

I know we all have our own opinions and stuff...but that one just isn't correct.

Massimo wrote:French league is tougher than German league IMO.

Bundesliga UEFA coefficient: 64.328 (3.) vs Ligue 1 UEFA coefficient: 50.166 (6.). But then, German teams have quite a history of losing vs Frenchies, just ask Bayern, Bremen and Dortmund.

On Götze vs Hazard, I have seen to little of Eden. Götze is a stud, but as long he cannot outplay Blaszykowski, he will stagnate.

Massimo wrote:French league is tougher than German league IMO.

A league in which Montepellier can become champion? Sorry, if I can't follow your arguement.

Didn't Wolfsburg won the German title 4 years ago?

Or Hoffenheim did really really good as soon as they promoted to the Bundesliga.

I mean where is the logical idea behind Montpeliler won the Ligue 1; therefore French League sucks?

French League is better than German League because in Germany, there are only two teams that you can say from now will compete for the championship. Those two teams are way better than others. But if you look at France(except this year's PSG), almost 10-12 teams are fighting for everything even championship. Lille won, Montpeliler won, Marseille won, Bordeaux won and Lyon won last 5 years. There was no team that won twice in 5 years. Therefore; that league is way tougher than German League where there is a lot of class difference between teams.

Is the french league also tougher than the EPL, La Liga and Serie A? Those leagues have less competitiveness for the title than Ligue 1, but it's still much tougher to play in any of those 3 leagues than in France. Honestly, the french league is more on par with Portugal, Russia or Italy than it is with the Bundesliga, EPL or La Liga.

But assuming competitiveness has any correlation with how tough it is to play in a given league, I have to ask, before those 5 years, how many titles did Lyon win in a row? And it's not like the Bundesliga hasn't had a diverse set of champions either as Dortmund, Wolfsburg, Bremen, Bayern and Stuttgart have won it all in the past decade

You're definitely right on La Liga. I don't even bother watching that league. What is there to watch anyways? 2 teams are destroying everybody in that league. I only watch Barcelona-Real Madrid match in that league.

Lyon had a class difference in Ligue 1 10 years ago and that's why I had never watched the ligue 1 at that time It is competitive now and competitiveness makes the league awesome because you can't simply predict anything before the kickoffs.

EPL is different because of the way they play. Except Stoke City Rugby Club; everybody is trying to make attacks, it is very rare to see some teams to defend the way like Chelsea did in CL or Inter Milan did against Barca 3 years ago. So, it is awesome to watch that league no matter what.

Foye wrote:

Massimo wrote:French league is tougher than German league IMO.

A league in which Montepellier can become champion? Sorry, if I can't follow your arguement.

this is dumb. Montepellier built up a great team and its players have been and still are being targeted by the biggest clubs in Europe. Their lack of pedigree or history doesn't make their success any less impressive or can be a knock against their league, in fact it makes their success more impressive.

that being said bundesliga>>ligue 1.

Massimo wrote:You're definitely right on La Liga. I don't even bother watching that league. What is there to watch anyways? 2 teams are destroying everybody in that league. I only watch Barcelona-Real Madrid match in that league.

Lyon had a class difference in Ligue 1 10 years ago and that's why I had never watched the ligue 1 at that time It is competitive now and competitiveness makes the league awesome because you can't simply predict anything before the kickoffs.

EPL is different because of the way they play. Except Stoke City Rugby Club; everybody is trying to make attacks, it is very rare to see some teams to defend the way like Chelsea did in CL or Inter Milan did against Barca 3 years ago. So, it is awesome to watch that league no matter what.

While all of these are fine reasons to prefer to watch a league, although with what's going on in Paris this parody may be a thing of the past very soon, none of them make it tougher to play in that league. The quality of play in France simply isn't as high as it is in England, Spain or Germany. Hazard looks awesome, that's why he's doing so well for Chelsea so soon, but he was not playing in a tougher league than Goetze before his move.

Mind you I think this is a complete toss up as these are arguably the top two players their age, but the Bundesliga smokes Ligue 1 at the moment, and has for a while now.

cgf wrote:

bbms wrote:I think Hazard is more proven now. But let's see what Gotze will show after Kagawa left. He has more responsability now, he's the clear cut best player on Dortmund, like Hazard has been his entire carreer.

...what? Goetze's got a year and a half of exceptional play in a much tougher league. And Reus > Kagawa.

Kagawa was imo the best player on that team.

Reus only re-joined Dortmund this season.

While Bundesliga is definitely better than Ligue 1 at the moment, I think it's easier to compete for trophies with Dortmund in Germany than with Lille in France.

bbms wrote:

cgf wrote:

bbms wrote:I think Hazard is more proven now. But let's see what Gotze will show after Kagawa left. He has more responsability now, he's the clear cut best player on Dortmund, like Hazard has been his entire carreer.

...what? Goetze's got a year and a half of exceptional play in a much tougher league. And Reus > Kagawa.

Kagawa was imo the best player on that team.

WTH?
Kagawa definitely was better than Götze but most of that was due to Götze not even being able to play - that said Götze seems to be in kind of a slump right now. We'll see if he can dig out of that.
Hummels and Lewandowski definitely were more important to their success last year than Kagawa, though.