2013-14 German Bundesliga Thread: Bayern Champs Again

[Maex]

I personally think Isco is better on the ball, while Gotze is better off it. Isco is definitely more creative, and has a better strike on goal, whereas Gotze is a better athlete. As for high level, Gotze may be capped for the German NT whereas Isco will take time to do so for Spain, but in CL I don't think it's such a difference. Gotze had a better team to work with and yet Dortmund barely scraped past Malaga. Both are good at seeing the through ball. Isco has an inhuman way of coming out of a swarm of defenders with possession of the football (like what he's doing in my avatar), which he's shown several times. He was a demon in the fixtures Madrid had against Malaga this season.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iT-1zEhMLZg

Götze did play 17 CL games and 10 for the national team, while Isco played 10 CL games.

I might not be the best one to rank Isco, because I only saw only 20 games from him last season (including all CL and all U21 EC), but Götze's on ball skills, especially high speed skills, are amazing. Not sure if Isco could be really better in that department.

Than of course you could try to compare their numbers (taking into account that both of them played offensive midfield last season).

Götze (12/13):
51 games
3639 minutes
19 goals
22 assists
192 minutes per goal
89 minutes per scorer (assist+goal)

Isco (12/13):
56 games
4648 minutes
16 goals
10 assists
291 minutes per goal
179 minutes per scorer (assist+goal)

And yeah, while this numbers alone are showing a huge gap, in Isco's numbers are seven U21 games included. If you would take the 11/12 season into account the gap would be even bigger.

So based on my limitations I am not sure, how Isco could be ranked higher than Götze.

[cgf]

Gotze's very smart and so does a great job of drifting in space behind the ball to offer Reus or Lewy an option to combine with, but on the ball Gotze is where Mario shines, Isco has the gifted of weaving through any number of defenders with the ball, but so does Mario, except Mario's even quicker and has more experience doing so at the highest level. I like Isco a lot, but Gotze's a notch above in my eyes which is why I think Mario for 35 is better than Isco for 30.

[cgf]

As for BVB-Bayern, lets see if Bayern are as hungry this year. Last year the disappointment of the CL final, losing the league to BVB again, losing to them in the cup and the Euro disaster, really drove Bayern to just dominate all season long like a machine. It was only september when I started lamenting that with the way Bayern where steamrolling everyone, nobody would stop them in any competition and few people understood my concerns. Now the tables have flipped, everyone is talking about how Bayern will dominate the whole of europe for years and here I am sitting quietly suspecting that BVB will steal at least the salad bowl back from the Bavarians. Should be a lot of fun to see if I have the pulse of BuLi again.

[5DOM]

Than of course you could try to compare their numbers (taking into account that both of them played offensive midfield last season).

Götze (12/13):
51 games
3639 minutes
19 goals
22 assists
192 minutes per goal
89 minutes per scorer (assist+goal)

Isco (12/13):
56 games
4648 minutes
16 goals
10 assists
291 minutes per goal
179 minutes per scorer (assist+goal)

And yeah, while this numbers alone are showing a huge gap, in Isco's numbers are seven U21 games included. If you would take the 11/12 season into account the gap would be even bigger.

So based on my limitations I am not sure, how Isco could be ranked higher than Götze.

Tbf to Isco, he did play for a much less talented side than Dortmund in a league that is often regarded the best in the world from top to bottom. I am with Foye - both are extremely talented and good signings for their respective teams.

[Massimo]

Götze (12/13):
51 games
3639 minutes
19 goals
22 assists
192 minutes per goal
89 minutes per scorer (assist+goal)

Isco (12/13):
56 games
4648 minutes
16 goals
10 assists
291 minutes per goal
179 minutes per scorer (assist+goal)

And yeah, while this numbers alone are showing a huge gap, in Isco's numbers are seven U21 games included. If you would take the 11/12 season into account the gap would be even bigger.

So based on my limitations I am not sure, how Isco could be ranked higher than Götze.

This shows nothing.

Gotze is playing for Dortmund and they are the second strongest team in Bundesliga. Also, Bundesliga is type of league where everybody scored lots of goals.

Isco is playing at Malaga which is third or fourth team in Spain and Spanish League is harder to score.

[Point forward]

Starke - Rafinha, van Buyten, Boateng, Contento - Luiz Gustavo, Can - Shaqiri, Kroos, Weiser - Pizarro

After the Thiago transfer, this is the BACKUP Bayern team. Apart from Dortmund and maybe Leverkusen, who could beat this B squad?

[Maex]

Than of course you could try to compare their numbers (taking into account that both of them played offensive midfield last season).

Götze (12/13):
51 games
3639 minutes
19 goals
22 assists
192 minutes per goal
89 minutes per scorer (assist+goal)

Isco (12/13):
56 games
4648 minutes
16 goals
10 assists
291 minutes per goal
179 minutes per scorer (assist+goal)

And yeah, while this numbers alone are showing a huge gap, in Isco's numbers are seven U21 games included. If you would take the 11/12 season into account the gap would be even bigger.

So based on my limitations I am not sure, how Isco could be ranked higher than Götze.

Tbf to Isco, he did play for a much less talented side than Dortmund in a league that is often regarded the best in the world from top to bottom. I am with Foye - both are extremely talented and good signings for their respective teams.

Totally, wasn't arguing that one of them is not within the world most talented players. I was just answering luisnani who stated that he isn't sold on Götze and brought Isco into the conversation.

This shows nothing.

Gotze is playing for Dortmund and they are the second strongest team in Bundesliga. Also, Bundesliga is type of league where everybody scored lots of goals.

Isco is playing at Malaga which is third or fourth team in Spain and Spanish League is harder to score.

Really appreciate your opinion and maybe more people would take you serious if you would stop the use of excessive hyperboles and auxesis. That would even be a solid base to have a proper discussion with you.

[Mr Grant Hill]

Isco is playing at Malaga which is third or fourth team in Spain and Spanish League is harder to score.

why is it harder to score?
because spanish football is known for its physical nature, defense and toughness?

and what about this "top league from top to bottom" stuff? are you kidding me? there's so much cannon fodder in that league. 50% of all professinal clubs in spain are bankrupt. the distribution of tv money is a joke. and nevertheless it's the "top league from top to bottom"? how does that exactly work? do all clubs have their lil la masia and their lil pep or del bosque?

isco had 5 goals and 5 assists in more than 2500 minutes last season in la liga. that is by no means great or good or above average. it has nothing to do with götze, dortmund, malaga, the bundesliga, la liga or whatever. that is just mediocre. nothing to argue. sorry.

[Massimo]

Grant Hill where have you been Mr. Troll? We've missed you. Last time you were here you were mumbling something about weird stuff. Glad to see you back bro. Write more often and make us laugh please.

[Man of Steel]

don't get me wrong, I'm 100% sold on Gotze. He's an absolute gem and Bayern absolutely win for picking him up under 40M. I rate him top 5 (Hazard, Gotze, Neymar, Isco, and El Shaarawy) from amongst the current crop of up and coming (under 25) talented attackers, and I'd more likely select him than Isco because he's more athletic, but I still think Isco is more creative. He's got that Iniesta-like ability to take a really crappy situation where it looks like he's completely ****ed and somehow leave the defenders behind. His technique is ridiculous. Not saying Gotze doesn't have that, I've just seen it more often from Isco.

that is just mediocre. nothing to argue. sorry.

Mediocre? He was 20 until the end of this last campaign
He had 9 goals in 36 appearances, scoring the same as Özil the year before he moved to Madrid. He had 3 goals and 3 assists in the UCL this year. In all competitions his pass completion rate is at or above 85%. I wasn't even making a statistical comparison, I was comparing playing styles, but you have to watch both players to be able to do that. The statistics you are quoting don't account for things like how a pass can open up the opposition's defense, or a players vision. But even statistically, if there's no comparison then why did Gotze score less and only have two more assists in the CL, when he has teammates like Lewandowski, Reus, Gundogan, and Błaszczykowski, while Isco has relative unknowns like Joaquin, Santa Cruz, and the bones of Javier Saviola? As for defenses, I don't watch much BuLi football outside of when Leverkusen, Schalke, Dortmund, or Bayern are playing but your assessment of Spanish defense is off the mark by a long shot, so I'd hazard a guess and say you haven't watched much Primeira division football outside of El Clasico.

[Point forward]

I dunno if anybody follows the Hoeneß scandal, but ATM he is working on a plea bargain. He is ready to pay a "hefty sum" in exchange of not having to go to jail. His lawyers are currently trying to reduce the fraud sum from "close to 3.5M" to less than 1M, b/c "2.5M are already time-barred" (verjährt).

That would leave a bad taste in my mouth. If you scam the German IRS out of 3.5M, you go to jail for at least 2 years. But then, Hoeneß is a member of the CSU, so what else is new?

[Maex]

Doesn't matter if it he is at the CSU or not. The law § 370 Abs. 3 AO is in force for any German citizen.

[Foye]

Despite Bayern and Dortmund reloading after strong seasons my vote for best offseason so far goes to Schalke 04.

Picking up Santana and Goretzka for less than 5 mil. € is highway robbery.
Szalai should be a really good backup for Huntelaar and Clemens a solid one for Farfan/Bastos.

Also got rid of a lot of deadweight on their roster (Metzelder, Jurado, Moritz, Afellay, Marica).

And of course resigned Draxler to a new contract which will net them 40 mil. € if he leaves.

[ATL Boy]

Despite Bayern and Dortmund reloading after strong seasons my vote for best offseason so far goes to Schalke 04.

Picking up Santana and Goretzka for less than 5 mil. € is highway robbery.
Szalai should be a really good backup for Huntelaar and Clemens a solid one for Farfan/Bastos.

Also got rid of a lot of deadweight on their roster (Metzelder, Jurado, Moritz, Afellay, Marica).

And of course resigned Draxler to a new contract which will net them 40 mil. € if he leaves.

They also extended Kolasinac's contract. As much as I dislike Schalke I have to admit, they made some pretty great moves this summer.

[cgf]

LN that Iniesta like ability to swerve out of a crowd and create danger when before he was surrounded is exactly what makes Gotze special, that's his strength and why he'll do even better for Bayern's patient build up than he did in Dortmund's full speed fury.

[Point forward]

Random BL event of the day: Schalke manager Horst Heldt is in hot water after shooting footballs at portraits of BVB player Kevin Großkreutz

[Foye]

Mkhitaryan injured for 4 weeks.

[cgf]

Aubameyang up top and Lewy in behind with the 4-4-1-1!!!

[ATL Boy]

Random BL event of the day: Schalke manager Horst Heldt is in hot water after shooting footballs at portraits of BVB player Kevin Großkreutz

[Foye]