RealGM

mercgold3 wrote:

SUAREZ AGAIN ?

Cactus Jack wrote:

mercgold3 wrote:

SUAREZ AGAIN ?

I was kidding.
Wasn't Suarez that did that.
But yeah, that is Menez. Ouch

Roberto Martinez appointed Belgium manager. This ought to be interesting.

mercgold3 wrote:

Spoiler:

SUAREZ AGAIN ?

Put this in spoilers man. I just ate breakfast. It almost came back up lol.

Ted Lasso wrote:Roberto Martinez appointed Belgium manager. This ought to be interesting.

A team without a plan hires a manager without a plan. Sounds like a fitting match to me.

Well, okay I might be exaggerating a little there, he's no Sherwood, but tactically Everton have been a disaster these past two seasons and it has to fall on Martinez.

Have been thinking about it for some time but is the fantasista position officially dead in modern football? World's premier talent was ruled by fantasistas from early 80's to mid 00's, most notably by guys like Zico, Platini, Maradona, Baggio, Zidane and the last one of the breed Ronaldinho, with bunch other amazing #10 talent that I failed to mention. Today, the only fantasista like elite player in the world is Ozil, who is more of an advanced playmaker type. I hope that the role goes through a recovery soon, and get back to days where football pitches were places where true artists demonstrated their skills in front of worshipping fans.

BJGOAT3 wrote:Have been thinking about it for some time but is the fantasista position officially dead in modern football? World's premier talent was ruled by fantasistas from early 80's to mid 00's, most notably by guys like Zico, Platini, Maradona, Baggio, Zidane and the last one of the breed Ronaldinho, with bunch other amazing #10 talent that I failed to mention. Today, the only fantasista like elite player in the world is Ozil, who is more of an advanced playmaker type. I hope that the role goes through a recovery soon, and get back to days where football pitches were places where true artists demonstrated their skills in front of worshipping fans.

Fantasista is not a position, it's a type of footballer. Italians call any fancy, technically gifted central midfielder, attacking midfielder, winger, or seconda punta a fantasista. It sounds like you're referring to trequartista, which unlike what is suggested by modern video games such as FM is not a role that can be assigned to various positions. The phrase literally means 3/4er and it only applies to No 10s.

As for your thesis, i essentially agree with it. There are two reasons why it's happening. One, such players used to be accepted as luxuries who didn't make much of a defensive or pressing effort. Nowadays No 10s are generally less gifted and more hardworking because modern managers, and therefore modern youth coaches (bit of a chicken or the egg there), don't allow for luxury players. Two, as the 4-3-3 has grown in popularity, offensive playmakers have been pushed out wide tactically in an effort to include an extra central midfielder. Few people would have thought to play Mesut Ozil, David Silva, Juan Mata, or James Rodriguez on the wing 20 years ago. Curiously, 20 years ago, it was in fashion to make side midfielders out of central midfielders.

Looks like Gabigol is better than Gabriel Jesus, at least from what I've see from both in these olympics

J-Mezzy wrote:Looks like Gabigol is better than Gabriel Jesus, at least from what I've see from both in these olympics

Talk that he has already been contacted by Leicester. I was hoping that he'd have a quieter olympics!

Ted Lasso wrote:

BJGOAT3 wrote:Have been thinking about it for some time but is the fantasista position officially dead in modern football? World's premier talent was ruled by fantasistas from early 80's to mid 00's, most notably by guys like Zico, Platini, Maradona, Baggio, Zidane and the last one of the breed Ronaldinho, with bunch other amazing #10 talent that I failed to mention. Today, the only fantasista like elite player in the world is Ozil, who is more of an advanced playmaker type. I hope that the role goes through a recovery soon, and get back to days where football pitches were places where true artists demonstrated their skills in front of worshipping fans.

Fantasista is not a position, it's a type of footballer. Italians call any fancy, technically gifted central midfielder, attacking midfielder, winger, or seconda punta a fantasista. It sounds like you're referring to trequartista, which unlike what is suggested by modern video games such as FM is not a role that can be assigned to various positions. The phrase literally means 3/4er and it only applies to No 10s.

As for your thesis, i essentially agree with it. There are two reasons why it's happening. One, such players used to be accepted as luxuries who didn't make much of a defensive or pressing effort. Nowadays No 10s are generally less gifted and more hardworking because modern managers, and therefore modern youth coaches (bit of a chicken or the egg there), don't allow for luxury players. Two, as the 4-3-3 has grown in popularity, offensive playmakers have been pushed out wide tactically in an effort to include an extra central midfielder. Few people would have thought to play Mesut Ozil, David Silva, Juan Mata, or James Rodriguez on the wing 20 years ago. Curiously, 20 years ago, it was in fashion to make side midfielders out of central midfielders.

You are right that its not a position. Essentially its more like Italian for #10, with few exceptions like Zidane even though he never played like a fantasista and didn't wear the number 10, he was categorised as one mostly due to his fantastic abilities of ball control and technique.

There is a major correlation between the role and the progression of Italian football, and since the mid 90's, Italian coaches looked to make their teams less dependent on fantasistas and more tactically disciplined. The last fantasistas Italy produced were Del Piero and Totti, both were utilised in different areas of the pitch rather than the traditional spot of AMC where fantasistas usually thrived in. Even though it is evident that the higher emphasis of tactics and structure paid off for Italian football early on, late 80's-early 90's Milan, Lippi's Juve, Ancelotti's Parma and Milan all enjoyed great spans of continental and local success, the strategy to ostracise fantasistas like Baggio, Zola or Mancini definitely depleted the player pool of Italy in an unprecedented way after a few generations. From an era of almost every talented attacking player competing in Serie A and national team having amazing ST and fantasista depth, 20 years later Italy arguably has its weakest generation of attacking players in national team history.

As you stated, in other leagues fantasista quality players got assimilated to 4-3-3 tactics as wingers or false 9's, and essentially the position of AMC is near elimination in modern football. Its saddening for me and definitely pulled my interest in football down with every passing year, as the iconic fantasistas I mentioned in the original post are all my favourite players and football idols.

Guys, who is/was better: Paul Scholes or Toni Kroos?

No_20 wrote:Guys, who is/was better: Paul Scholes or Toni Kroos?

Is this a trick question?

Was thinking what would the European club's look like if EU players were not treated like domestic and if eastern Europeans could not leave until the age of 27 ?
Basically football from the 80's. Would it be better with competition spread out more even ?

Celebration after a hat-trick.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2dMWE1_AOU [/youtube]

HIF wrote:Celebration after a hat-trick.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2dMWE1_AOU [/youtube]

He was sent off. Pretty damn creative.

Cactus Jack wrote:

HIF wrote:Celebration after a hat-trick.

Watch on YouTube

He got red carded.

Crazy isn't it?

Not too surprising. I read that a player got a second yellow and sent off in Sweden for ripping a massive fart.

Ref said it counted as dissent or something. Bloody fascists.