Top 15 players in the world?

[aggerrard]

Hi yes im from Sweden, PL is like the biggest league here . Im AS Roma fan but Serie A has never been as interesting as PL to me.

The English sports media always overhype brit/english players in PL to be the new Gerrard,Scholes, Giggs, Lampard etc It feels like arrogance and belittling those legends who reached World level.

Nothing wrong with being very good without being world beaters. Somtimes PL is like the NBA but if 90% of American players was not nearly as great as the international players.....

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Yea, same in Denmark. La Liga and Serie A is nothing compared to the Prem - like 1/10 of the coverage.

I think it's more hope than arrogance. England won nothing with Gerrard, Lampard, Scholes, Beckham, Owen, Rooney, Ferdinand, Terry, Cole, Neville, Campbell and Carragher.

I think that's really the point. Gerrard, Lampard Scholes were not as good as made out to be. They were good English footballers in a time when English footballers were just average european players.

The beauty of the PL is the mix of players and the style and pace of play.

Over the last few years it's the Belgians who have looked like the best creators in European football , particularly those in the PL, and probably the French who have looked the best overall players. Maddison has looked good and the hope is that he can become great but very few do.

That's a bit harsh. Gerrard, Lampard and Scholes are all some of the the greatest of their time.

And the Prem dominated in Europe at that time. 3 wins from 05-12, 8 final appearances and 4 different clubs in the final. Spain only had one team in that 8 year span, Barcelona and they won it 3 times. Italy had two teams, Inter and Milan, with two wins and 1 loss. Germany with Bayern, one win and one loss. Gerrard, Lampard and Scholes just didn't live up to expectation with the national team - they dominated in Europe with Liverpool, Chelsea and United.

[HIF]

They were parts of good teams. They were good players. That's it, they weren't greats - they weren't Beckenbauer or Cruyff, they weren't Ronaldo or Messi, they weren't finney or Czibor or platini or Socrates. In fact I don't think they'd make a top 25 of the best midfielders ever, let alone top great players, but that's just my opinion, I understand that you disagree.

[aggerrard]

They were parts of good teams. They were good players. That's it, they weren't greats - they weren't Beckenbauer or Cruyff, they weren't Ronaldo or Messi, they weren't finney or Czibor or platini or Socrates. In fact I don't think they'd make a top 25 of the best midfielders ever, let alone top great players, but that's just my opinion, I understand that you disagree.

I'm not sure they make top 25 all time at their position either.

But i think it's hard to argue, that all three, at their best, were top of the top at their position at the time. They weren't just some decent, overrated players. All three world class players - it just didn't click when they played together for England.

[SgtPepper]

I think Scholes could be argued as opposite. During his playing days no one rated his the way they currently do. He became fashionable after Xavi praised him as an archetype in 2010 during the Barca sweep of the BdO top 3. In fact for the majority of his career it wasn't clear what Scholes best position was (wide mid, AM, CM, DLP?). Michael Cox spends a section of his Mixer book covering this revisionist history.

[Alex_De_Large]

Mané should be in top15.
Mbappe #1.

[The_Brecht]

They were parts of good teams. They were good players. That's it, they weren't greats - they weren't Beckenbauer or Cruyff, they weren't Ronaldo or Messi, they weren't finney or Czibor or platini or Socrates. In fact I don't think they'd make a top 25 of the best midfielders ever, let alone top great players, but that's just my opinion, I understand that you disagree.

I'm not sure they make top 25 all time at their position either.

But i think it's hard to argue, that all three, at their best, were top of the top at their position at the time. They weren't just some decent, overrated players. All three world class players - it just didn't click when they played together for England.

That was the problem. A lack of balls to make some hard choices.
Don't just put the best players together on the pitch but the best team even if it means that you've got to bench a player like Gerrard of Lampard.

[Foye]

Hands down. Lewandowski is #1 this year.

[The_Brecht]

Hands down. Lewandowski is #1 this year.

Should win Ballon d'Or.

[wco81]

Mané should be in top15.
Mbappe #1.

Was listening to the ESPN FC podcast about the recent international games.

They said Mbappe still showed pace but not the ability to go by people with the ball as he did in the last WC.

They also said Griezmann no longer had pace, though in his case, more understandable since he's about to hit 30. But it's amazing that all this talent on the France team and now some of their key players are on the downslope already?


Also makes you wonder if Ronaldo and Messi are still so effective and they're able to still have a lot of pace, both with and without the ball, or they've found other ways to score without making the big runs they were known for earlier in their careers.

[The_Brecht]

I think Mbappe is evolving his game.
When he just arrived at the scene, it was a 'run and gun' principle. Nowadays, he gets more involved with the actual play.

He has to leave France though to take his game to a whole new level.

[HIF]

Vardy is a lot older and hasn't lost the nous.

[tjumper78]

kane and son moving up quickly

[HIF]

Vardy restating his credentials even though he's never in these conversations.

[HIF]

Vardy scored his 10th goal in only 22 shots this season.

[antonac]

Yea, same in Denmark. La Liga and Serie A is nothing compared to the Prem - like 1/10 of the coverage.

I think it's more hope than arrogance. England won nothing with Gerrard, Lampard, Scholes, Beckham, Owen, Rooney, Ferdinand, Terry, Cole, Neville, Campbell and Carragher.

I think that's really the point. Gerrard, Lampard Scholes were not as good as made out to be. They were good English footballers in a time when English footballers were just average european players.

The beauty of the PL is the mix of players and the style and pace of play.

Over the last few years it's the Belgians who have looked like the best creators in European football , particularly those in the PL, and probably the French who have looked the best overall players. Maddison has looked good and the hope is that he can become great but very few do.

That's a bit harsh. Gerrard, Lampard and Scholes are all some of the the greatest of their time.

And the Prem dominated in Europe at that time. 3 wins from 05-12, 8 final appearances and 4 different clubs in the final. Spain only had one team in that 8 year span, Barcelona and they won it 3 times. Italy had two teams, Inter and Milan, with two wins and 1 loss. Germany with Bayern, one win and one loss. Gerrard, Lampard and Scholes just didn't live up to expectation with the national team - they dominated in Europe with Liverpool, Chelsea and United.

The problem with England, and this is coming from a Scot who absolutely laps up their failures (I went out running in the Iceland top I bought after Iceland beat England for reference) is imo actually that they are too self-effacing when they get together. The whole idea they are prima donnas that only care for their club is miles away from the truth, it seems like the fear of being seen as this actually ends up making the 11 players, some of which are definitely world class, play like sunday league grafters. They have had players that should have been the focal point of the team but never utilized their abilities. They had players that could knock in goals from 30 yards afraid to take a shot unless they were staring down the goalie in the 6 yard box.

Also there is definitely a tendency to always be looking for the next big thing, the English like nothing more than to bring a host of 18-20 year olds to big tournaments on the back of some flashes of potential while leaving at home seasoned pros in their prime. If you're italian or german you better be a consistent world class player to get selected before you're in your mid-20s, for England if you score a few fancy goals over the season before, you're in. They're itching to move on from Vardy because he's too old for England fans now.

Also, Scholes never lived up to expectations with the national team because they played him out on the left nearly every time they picked him, they seemed uninterested in giving control of the team to him. He was under-rated in his day but that didn't stop Ferguson realising his value to man united, just no England manager ever had the savvy to notice it as well.

[The_Brecht]

Lukaku reaching 300 goals as the third youngest player.
Only Messi and Ronaldo were younger.

Still doesn't get the respect he deserves.

[HIF]

Lukaku reaching 300 goals as the third youngest player.
Only Messi and Ronaldo were younger.

Still doesn't get the respect he deserves.

Playing for Everton does that for you.