How do soccer fans rank players in history?

[GSP]

And who are the usual suspects for the greatest? For basketball youll usually see Mj, Kaj, Russ, Bird, Magic, Hakeem, Wilt, Shaq, Timmy, Kobe, Lebron near the top. Are there usual suspects in most soccer lists?

Do they rank mostly by achievements or are there stats/eye test they use too? Do they take longevity into account like how many years a player was great for or do they look mostly at when the player was at their peak? My impression from what ive read is that Maradona is to soccer what Mj is to basketball but are there players hardcore soccer fans consider arguably better (like for basketball with Russell or Kaj against Mj)?

[ppedro123]

No, Pele is MJ...


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[Raps in 4]

It's much harder to decide on a GOAT soccer player due to there not being a single league for soccer. International competitions also unfairly impact a player's image (whether positively or negatively). It's also much more difficult to gauge impact across positions in soccer. In basketball, any position can carry the scoring load. In soccer, only a few positions actively try to score (the rest of the positions are purely defensive or supportive).

[bbms]

Pele holds the biggest legacy on this sport, period. But there are more all-time greats in this sport than in basketball. It's an eleven-men sport, after all.

[Baphomet]

I feel like the general consensus is that you have Pele, Maradona and Burak Yilmaz in any order as the all time greatest, at the highest pinnacle, and very few would argue. It's when you get to everyone else that it gets murky. You have a lengthy second tier of demigodlike players including Fat Ronaldo, Zidane, Johan Cruyff, Gerd Muller, Messi, Beckenbauer, Eusebio, etc.

I think Raps in 4 made a valid point in regards to the general impossibility of ranking players in this sport.

[blkout]

Defenders will never fully get the credit they deserve in football either, for obvious reasons.

[Next Coming]

I feel like the general consensus is that you have Pele, Maradona and Burak Yilmaz in any order as the all time greatest, at the highest pinnacle, and very few would argue. It's when you get to everyone else that it gets murky. You have a lengthy second tier of demigodlike players including Fat Ronaldo, Zidane, Johan Cruyff, Gerd Muller, Messi, Beckenbauer, Eusebio, etc.

I think Raps in 4 made a valid point in regards to the general impossibility of ranking players in this sport.

I'm partial to Mitrologou.

[bbms]

I feel like the general consensus is that you have Pele, Maradona and Burak Yilmaz in any order as the all time greatest, at the highest pinnacle, and very few would argue. It's when you get to everyone else that it gets murky. You have a lengthy second tier of demigodlike players including Fat Ronaldo, Zidane, Johan Cruyff, Gerd Muller, Messi, Beckenbauer, Eusebio, etc.

I think Raps in 4 made a valid point in regards to the general impossibility of ranking players in this sport.

What about turning this into a discussion?

What's exactly Maradona's case over Pele?

[GMgoran]

Defenders will never fully get the credit they deserve in football either, for obvious reasons.

Not necessarily ... Any knowledgeable football fan will tell you that Franz Beckenbauer is one of the top 5 players in the history of football ...

[blkout]

True, but how many of them actually watched him play. In basketball it's easy because despite being a 5 on 5 game it really is largely an individual sport, there's so many statistics to quantify everything even for players you can't watch. Football is a completely different animal. You're basically existing on reputation alone after a certain point, for every Franz Beckenbauer I'm sure there were 2-3 guys slightly beneath him in his era who have been largely forgotten about.

[AlexDelta]

Defenders will never fully get the credit they deserve in football either, for obvious reasons.

Not necessarily ... Any knowledgeable football fan will tell you that Franz Beckenbauer is one of the top 5 players in the history of football ...

Different times. Nowadays if you are not attacking player nobody really cares about you, especially more casual fans, see Lahm.
An exception to this might be goalkeepers.

[Baphomet]

I feel like the general consensus is that you have Pele, Maradona and Burak Yilmaz in any order as the all time greatest, at the highest pinnacle, and very few would argue. It's when you get to everyone else that it gets murky. You have a lengthy second tier of demigodlike players including Fat Ronaldo, Zidane, Johan Cruyff, Gerd Muller, Messi, Beckenbauer, Eusebio, etc.

I think Raps in 4 made a valid point in regards to the general impossibility of ranking players in this sport.

What about turning this into a discussion?

What's exactly Maradona's case over Pele?

Well, personally I don't have a big stake in the Maradona vs. Pele debate. I feel like when footballers hit an apex as high as the two of them did, it's really pointless to nitpick, but I will anyway. I would give the nod to Maradona. I feel that Maradona's performance in the 1986 World Cup is the most dominant of any player in history on the international stage. He single-handedly (literally at times) willed that team to win the tournament, and it may represent the highest peak of any player ever.

On one hand, Pele won the World Cup 3 times including his incredible emergence as a teenager in the 1958 final, but on the other, during his international career, he did play alongside the likes of Garrincha, Carlos Alberto, Rivelino, Jairzinho, Gerson, Tostao, etc, which always helps your cause. He didn't even play in the majority of the 1962 tournament success, which I'm sure he would've dominated, but it's hard to attribute it to him. Brazil's 1970 squad is also hands down the greatest ever to play in the World Cup. That's not a knock against Pele individually, but it adds a little context to Brazil's dominance in that era.

Pele will always be something of a mythical figure in football, and it's hard to verify exactly what he did and didn't do at club level. A sizable bulk of Pele's goals for Santos came against weak state sides that represent the equivalent of Man United playing against Salford City. Pele scored countless goals and won many accolades in Brazil, but Maradona plied his trade in the strongest European leagues and won titles there too.

The fact of the matter is though, they were very different players who played across different generations. Pele was a forward, and Maradona was the prototypical playmaking number 10. Would Pele have scored his supposed 1283 goals in Europe in the 80s/90s? Probably not. Is it really worth delving into deep statistical analysis to verify the legitimacy of Pele's 1283, when you consider that number is mind blowing no matter the circumstances? Probably not.

[GMgoran]

True, but how many of them actually watched him play.

Well, that is not so difficult ... Just Google "classic football matches", and there are lots of sites with full games videos from the time Beckenbauer was playing ...

In basketball it's easy because despite being a 5 on 5 game it really is largely an individual sport, there's so many statistics to quantify everything even for players you can't watch. Football is a completely different animal. You're basically existing on reputation alone after a certain point, for every Franz Beckenbauer I'm sure there were 2-3 guys slightly beneath him in his era who have been largely forgotten about.

It is true that the attacking players get most of the attention, and that is why players like Di Stefano, Pele, Cruyff and Maradona are generally considered as the best in the history of football ... Still, there are defenders (like Franz Beckenbauer or Paolo Maldini) who have changed the way football fans are looking at defenders in general ...

[treiz]

Defenders will never fully get the credit they deserve in football either, for obvious reasons.

Not necessarily ... Any knowledgeable football fan will tell you that Franz Beckenbauer is one of the top 5 players in the history of football ...

But after him there's a wave of attacking players on any list.

It would be difficult to name another defender or goalkeeper in any GOAT list without having a huge debate especially over a 2nd tier attacking player the likes of Ronaldo, Zidane etc.