Best managers in the world?

[treiz]

Yeah Prandelli, Poch, Rodgers always worked with great players like Arsene wenger. They had millions of dollars to spend also. I like the logic.

Prandelli worked with Fiorentina, Poch with Southampton etc etc. Those teams don't have Arsenal's income, stadium, ability to spend, players, being in London etc etc.

It was only recent that Arsenal has had the capability to spend due to the handicap the stadium has brought them, which was made because of Arsene Wenger's insistence to build a long term sustainable club, and despite the financial restrictions he had from building the infrastructure he still managed to place in the top 4 despite heavy competition from other teams spending huge sums of money (City, Tottenham, Liverpool) and compete in the CL which in turn brought in players that wouldn't have come if it wasn't for the CL.

You look at some of the squads he had a few years ago and the fact that he managed top 4 on budgeted spending by finding and nurturing talent on a consistent basis, yeah I'd take him over any of those coaches any day of the week.

[5DOM]

If I am not mistaken, Arsenal have always been the 4-5th biggest spenders if you consider the wages. I don't think Wenger's greatly overachieved or underachieved in last few years which is probably why there are such different opinions of him.

I'd take Tony Pulis over all these guys though

[treiz]

They spent money yes but they couldn't compete in the market like they used to such as in the early 00s when they were competing for the title because of said restricted finances due to infrastructure costs.

It didn't help that they committed to long term contracts with sponsors to help pay off the stadium by taking more money upfront, once Roman came in they couldn't compete financially with Chelsea and were inevitably left in the dust, with United running up their debt around that time as well, Arsenal just couldn't do anything if they were going to stick with their original plan, that was really the end of that Arsenal era. Didn't help that the Sheikhs came in too later on, despite that he still managed to get top 4 with some terrible squads.

[MaliBrah]

I think its a mixture of both. We underachieved and we overachieved(in some instances). For example in 10/11 it was a 2 team(arsenal/united) race for a good portion of the season and we somehow manage to finish 4th and lost a cup final. Thats an example of us underachieving.

Then the next two years after losing half a starting 11 and building an entirely new team basically we came 3rd(only god knows how) and 4th after our worst starts ever. Overachieving.

now that we can compete money wise for most players we have to become as attractive a destination as city/chelsea at least. And the only way you can do that is by winning I guess.

[No_20]

If Liverpool could do it last year, there are no excuses to why Arsenal havent had a proper title challenge(title challenges until april dont count) since... 2004, when they won it.

[Baphomet]

I'd take Tony Pulis over all these guys though

Pulis is a beast. I really hope he lands a top job soon, or maybe take over at Newcastle and give them a semblance of direction. Seems like Pardew is never going to get sacked, though.

[5DOM]

I think its a mixture of both. We underachieved and we overachieved(in some instances). For example in 10/11 it was a 2 team(arsenal/united) race for a good portion of the season and we somehow manage to finish 4th and lost a cup final. Thats an example of us underachieving.

Then the next two years after losing half a starting 11 and building an entirely new team basically we came 3rd(only god knows how) and 4th after our worst starts ever. Overachieving.

now that we can compete money wise for most players we have to become as attractive a destination as city/chelsea at least. And the only way you can do that is by winning I guess.

I think at the end of the day Arsenal finishing 3rd or 4th and finishing without a trophy for most of the last decade is neither a great overachievement or underachievement. They've probably been the 4th or 5th biggest spenders, so I guess they slightly overachieved in league at times, but they've only won one cup which is a slight disappointment.

At least with Rodgers, we know for sure Liverpool greatly overachieved last season. How much of that is due to Rodgers, I'm not sure, but I can see why some might rank Rodgers higher in today's ranking.

[No_20]

And he did really well with Swansea.

[treiz]

I'd take Tony Pulis over all these guys though

Pulis is a beast. I really hope he lands a top job soon, or maybe take over at Newcastle and give them a semblance of direction. Seems like Pardew is never going to get sacked, though.

Imagine the compensation Pardew will get if he gets sacked....that 8 year contract was an albatross at the time and looks even worse now

I agree with Pulis though, I won't be surprised if he took over the Burnley team now and made them stay up or even mid table

[cgf]

I'd take Tony Pulis over all these guys though

Pulis is a beast. I really hope he lands a top job soon, or maybe take over at Newcastle and give them a semblance of direction. Seems like Pardew is never going to get sacked, though.

It could be argued that the actual greatest skill for a professional manager is being able to maintain job security, and pardew has been unfireable...

[Effercon]

I would go:

1. Mourinho
2. Simeone
3. Klopp
4. Pekerman
5. Garcia
6. Ancelotti
7. Guardiola
8. Löw
9. Rodgers
10. Pellegrini

[MaliBrah]

no way pep can be below #2 IMO. swear this the only message board where pep and messi aren't rated

[cgf]

no way pep can be below #2 IMO. swear this the only message board where pep and messi aren't rated

There's more than two coaches who are better at coaching in the BuLi alone. None who have been even close to as successful with a giant club, but guys who are doing a better coaching job today none the less.

[ardee]

no way pep can be below #2 IMO. swear this the only message board where pep and messi aren't rated

Why? Let's be real: you could put half the managers on this list on Bayern and they wouldn't be any less dominant. You could argue Bayern has gotten worse since he took over from Jupp.

[El Turco]

messi is an average player, pep is an average coach, tiki taka is a crap system. makes you wonder where all that barca success came from.

[Ted Lasso]

no way pep can be below #2 IMO. swear this the only message board where pep and messi aren't rated

Why? Let's be real: you could put half the managers on this list on Bayern and they wouldn't be any less dominant. You could argue Bayern has gotten worse since he took over from Jupp.

Yes, let's. Let us name the managers who would win 3 league & 2 cup & 2 CL titles in four seasons at Barcelona.

[Maex]

no way pep can be below #2 IMO. swear this the only message board where pep and messi aren't rated

There's more than two coaches who are better at coaching in the BuLi alone. None who have been even close to as successful with a giant club, but guys who are doing a better coaching job today none the less.

I can totally see where are you coming from, but still I have some problems with the argument (and the whole thread in general).

I do think that not every coach job is the same, and that different managers a gifted in different departments. Let's take us e.g. Streich , who we both think of as an excellent coach. He is doing a fabulous job in Freiburg and he is truly making the best out of a limited budget. Would he also excel at a club with other standards and a higher betters? We do not know, because his main skillset atm would not be as helpful as it is in Freiburg.

There are countless examples of managers who failed doing exactly this task: Thorsten Fink (Ingolstadt, Basel, Hamburg), Michael Oenning (Nürnberg, Hamburg), Christian Gross (Basel, Stuttgart), Armin Veh (Augsburg, Stuttgart, Wolfsburg), Michael Skibbe (Germany U20, Leverkusen), Bruno Labbadia (Fürth, Leverkusen). Outside of the Bundesliga Moyes would be a good example.

Of course you have opposite examples like Klopp, who transited very well from mainz to Dortmund. But that is the majority.

Pep might be the opposite. He proofed that he is able to transform a very great team to a world champion team on a consistant basis.

Now if you ask me who is the better manager, I could not reply unless I know the situation he will find himself in. Is it go play against relegation? Give me Streich anytime. Is it to play for the Champions League title? Give me Pep without a question! Would I trust Streich with a squad like Bayern, Chelsea, Barca, Real? Not really.

[Next Coming]

Putting Rodgers 7th is a bit too early. How he does this year will go a long way in what I think of him. Would still have him over every PL manager not named Mourinho.

Disagree bro

[5DOM]

His Marseille team has been outstanding of course.

[ardee]

no way pep can be below #2 IMO. swear this the only message board where pep and messi aren't rated

Why? Let's be real: you could put half the managers on this list on Bayern and they wouldn't be any less dominant. You could argue Bayern has gotten worse since he took over from Jupp.

Yes, let's. Let us name the managers who would win 3 league & 2 cup & 2 CL titles in four seasons at Barcelona.

Lol. With prime Pique, Alves, Xavi, Iniesta, Messi and Eto'o/Villa/Zlatan: how about Simoene, Ancelotti, Mourinho, Klopp, Ferguson in his time, and probably Louis van Gaal and Del Bosque as well, for starters? I'm not saying all these guys are better than Pep, but they would probably all achieve similar success with that loaded Barca squad.

That was among the most talented teams of all time. They really had no competition in La Liga until Mourinho came to Madrid in 2010.