Page 1 of 1
Is the Premier League really worse now than in 2005-09?
Posted: Tue Dec 9, 2014 1:14 am
by No_20
I always see people on the social media complain about the lack of quality of the Premier League, that it's a sh*tty league and that it all was way better in the 2005 to 2009 years, that many call the "Golden era" of the EPL. There was at least one english club in the CL final all those years and you had players like Ronaldo, Henry, Torres and prime versions of Gerrard, Lampard and Drogba. Then you had managers like Ferguson, Mourinho, Wenger and Benitez.
Sometimes people forget how massive the gap between the Big Four(MU, LIV, CHE, ARS) and the rest was at the time and you had various managers complaining about that and the lack of parity.
Chelsea are probably as good today. Arsenal, Man Utd and Liverpool have all declined.
The mid and lower teams are better today though. Teams like Spurs, Everton, Newcastle and Man City are all much better now than in the 00s.
-So couldnt you argue that the league is actually stronger today and that it's just the fact that there's more parity and that the big clubs have more competition, it makes is all more tight?
-Is it just popular to say that the league is bad and that the old tactical Liverpool - Chelsea 0-0 battles were better games than the high scoring games we see in the top games these years.?
-Do you enjoy the league more today than you did in the 00s?
Re: Is the Premier League really worse now than in 2005-09?
Posted: Tue Dec 9, 2014 5:24 am
by MaliBrah
the league overall has more depth but the top teams have fallen off a cliff in recent years. There was like a 2 or 3 year stretch IIRC where the english teams dominated the CL semi finals and beat each other in the quarter finals.
I personally enjoyed those years better than now because we were a better team then , more fun to watch , and at least had an outside shot in Europe. Compared to now that we're boring , poor team , and have pretty much no chance in the CL.
Re: Is the Premier League really worse now than in 2005-09?
Posted: Tue Dec 9, 2014 7:40 am
by Baphomet
Everything that's said on social media is wank. Pay no mind.
In terms of team strength the EPL is down a bit in recent years, especially with fairly poor representation in the CL and Europa, but I think the league is as entertaining as it's ever been. Have these people forgotten Aguero's winner at the death? Gerrard's slip?
The quality is still there, too, and some of the lower level teams are gaining in strength thanks to the TV deals, making for a more entertaining product overall with good matches every week. At least, that was the case until this season, but I'm sure things will pick up eventually.
Re: Is the Premier League really worse now than in 2005-09?
Posted: Tue Dec 9, 2014 8:28 am
by Ted Lasso
The continental evidence is undeniable. However, in addition to some regression in talent and quality, what I think happened over the last decade is that Real Madrid, Barcelona, and Bayern Munich have finally learned to build the super teams they are forever capable of building.
When those three are all in formidable shape, the competition is obviously much stronger. Top English and Italian teams ought to be the ones challenging them. Recently, we've had the likes of Atletico and Dortmund instead.
Re: Is the Premier League really worse now than in 2005-09?
Posted: Tue Dec 9, 2014 5:41 pm
by Sports Realist
No doubt its worse...
Since 2012 there is no English team that can keep up internationally.
2012 Chelsea was a fluke.
In 2012 and 2013, Chelsea was the only English team to make it past ROUND OF 16.
Last year wasn't very impressive either.
Re: Is the Premier League really worse now than in 2005-09?
Posted: Tue Dec 9, 2014 5:50 pm
by J-Mezzy
Sports Realist wrote:No doubt its worse...
Since 2012 there is no English team that can keep up internationally.
2012 Chelsea was a fluke.
In 2012 and 2013, Chelsea was the only English team to make it past ROUND OF 16.
Last year wasn't very impressive either.
How was our title a fluke? We went through Barcelona and Bayern, arguably the top 2 teams in the world at the moment. We played our style and won, that doesn't mean we didn't deserve it
Re: Is the Premier League really worse now than in 2005-09?
Posted: Tue Dec 9, 2014 6:24 pm
by Sports Realist
J-Mezzy wrote:Sports Realist wrote:No doubt its worse...
Since 2012 there is no English team that can keep up internationally.
2012 Chelsea was a fluke.
In 2012 and 2013, Chelsea was the only English team to make it past ROUND OF 16.
Last year wasn't very impressive either.
How was our title a fluke? We went through Barcelona and Bayern, arguably the top 2 teams in the world at the moment. We played our style and won, that doesn't mean we didn't deserve it
A fluke in the sense that I believe if you played 10 games against Barca, Bayern, Madrid, you'd win 3 and lose 7... One of the weakest title winners ever.
And believe me, I love Chelsea. They got screwed hard in '09 and were an international powerhouse since about '04. But if they were to win one of those years, it shoudn't be 2012..
Their style was park the bus, really. Happy for Drogba, Lampard, Terry.. But there were about 3 superior Teams than Chelsea that year.
Re: Is the Premier League really worse now than in 2005-09?
Posted: Tue Dec 9, 2014 7:18 pm
by J-Mezzy
Sports Realist wrote:J-Mezzy wrote:Sports Realist wrote:No doubt its worse...
Since 2012 there is no English team that can keep up internationally.
2012 Chelsea was a fluke.
In 2012 and 2013, Chelsea was the only English team to make it past ROUND OF 16.
Last year wasn't very impressive either.
How was our title a fluke? We went through Barcelona and Bayern, arguably the top 2 teams in the world at the moment. We played our style and won, that doesn't mean we didn't deserve it
A fluke in the sense that I believe if you played 10 games against Barca, Bayern, Madrid, you'd win 3 and lose 7... One of the weakest title winners ever.
And believe me, I love Chelsea. They got screwed hard in '09 and were an international powerhouse since about '04. But if they were to win one of those years, it shoudn't be 2012..
Their style was park the bus, really. Happy for Drogba, Lampard, Terry.. But there were about 3 superior Teams than Chelsea that year.
Chelsea may not have been the best team in Europe that year, but there is a reason why you play for titles, rather than win them on paper. On paper, Barcelona, Bayern, and Madrid were better, but Chelsea won. They won going through 2 of those teams. Barcelona was not able to beat us once and bayern lost at home. Say what you want about parking the bus, the games were played and Chelsea won. Nothing fluke like about that.
Re: Is the Premier League really worse now than in 2005-09?
Posted: Tue Dec 9, 2014 7:27 pm
by magik9113
No doubt that the premier league is worse. It's quite obvious.
Still, it's a star studded and entertaining league.
Dips in quality are natural. La Liga is on top now, probably won't be for long.
say what you want about money and whatever else......but it's a cycle and it's natural
Re: Is the Premier League really worse now than in 2005-09?
Posted: Tue Dec 9, 2014 11:26 pm
by TurboTitan
maybe worse, but more entertaining in my opinion
Re: Is the Premier League really worse now than in 2005-09?
Posted: Tue Dec 9, 2014 11:58 pm
by treiz
Mo-Town wrote:maybe worse, but more entertaining in my opinion
This, the fact that any team can win any given weekend certainly makes it much more appealing (to me) than the one team Bundesliga, or the two/recently three team La Liga. There is just so much more depth in the competition, I definitely enjoy the EPL more today, and just because the top teams doesn't compete as well in the CL doesn't necessarily mean that its gotten worse, could be the fact that there is much more competition.
Re: Is the Premier League really worse now than in 2005-09?
Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 6:02 am
by Det the Threat
treiz wrote:Mo-Town wrote:maybe worse, but more entertaining in my opinion
This,
the fact that any team can win any given weekend certainly makes it much more appealing (to me) than the one team Bundesliga, or the two/recently three team La Liga. There is just so much more depth in the competition, I definitely enjoy the EPL more today, and just because the top teams doesn't compete as well in the CL doesn't necessarily mean that its gotten worse, could be the fact that there is much more competition.
Well, if you exclude the Bayern matches, the same thing can be said for the Bundesliga and the quality's there as well.
Still, it has nothing to do with EPL being worse then before. It's rather just that teams like Real, Barca, PSG and Bayern have decided to spend as well and that makes it hard for anyone to compete with.
Re: Is the Premier League really worse now than in 2005-09?
Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 9:37 am
by treiz
Det the Threat wrote:treiz wrote:Mo-Town wrote:maybe worse, but more entertaining in my opinion
This,
the fact that any team can win any given weekend certainly makes it much more appealing (to me) than the one team Bundesliga, or the two/recently three team La Liga. There is just so much more depth in the competition, I definitely enjoy the EPL more today, and just because the top teams doesn't compete as well in the CL doesn't necessarily mean that its gotten worse, could be the fact that there is much more competition.
Well, if you exclude the Bayern matches, the same thing can be said for the Bundesliga and the quality's there as well.
Still, it has nothing to do with EPL being worse then before. It's rather just that teams like Real, Barca, PSG and Bayern have decided to spend as well and that makes it hard for anyone to compete with.
But you can't exclude it, even before the season, even before Dortmund had this terrible run they're in, everybody expected Bayern to sweep through the season and quite frankly it's sort of disappointing.
I agree with the 2nd point, the TV market in the PL allows the lower teams to try and at least get some solid players to help compete they. These teams won't be able to attract the best but if they're smart and savvy they can easily compete at the highest level (see West Ham, Southampton this year). Whereas in the other leagues I don't think there's much money going to the lesser teams.
Re: Is the Premier League really worse now than in 2005-09?
Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 10:18 am
by Det the Threat
treiz wrote:But you can't exclude it, even before the season, even before Dortmund had this terrible run they're in, everybody expected Bayern to sweep through the season and quite frankly it's sort of disappointing.
Actually, you can.
Everybody and their mother in Germany knows that you can't compete with Bayern, financially, and therefore no one cares about the league title all that much. It's boring as hell and the only time people really get angry is when Bayern, once again does some dirty business transfer wise or if Sammer's saying another stupid thing.
Just like last season when he said that teams should question themselves if they work/practice hard enough and said that this(not the money) was the reason they can't compete with them.
treiz wrote:I agree with the 2nd point, the TV market in the PL allows the lower teams to try and at least get some solid players to help compete they. These teams won't be able to attract the best but if they're smart and savvy they can easily compete at the highest level (see West Ham, Southampton this year). Whereas in the other leagues I don't think there's much money going to the lesser teams.
Yes, english premier league teams do get more money.
Still, I don't think it results in teams other then the top 4 - 5 really fielding a top notch team or what not. What it does is increase transfer fees to insane amounts of money, as every club asks for the moon once the teams from EPL wants a player.
For example, I just read that Arsenal wants to buy a 21 year old cb from Ipswich, who's only made the starting eleven this season and that they're offering 10 million euros.
That's just nuts and shows you how inflated the market in England is.
Also, I don't think EPL teams below 6th place are all that much better then Bundesliga teams at that level and there's also at least one surprise team in Germany every season.
On top off that, if my club would have to go against a team like West Ham, Tottenham, Everton etc. I would like our chances.
Re: AW: Is the Premier League really worse now than in 2005-
Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 10:27 am
by Foye
The average EPL team (non CL/EL) is definitely better than the average German, Spanish or French team.
Sent from my GT-I9001 using RealGM Forums mobile app
Re: Is the Premier League really worse now than in 2005-09?
Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 5:40 pm
by Man of Steel
Mo-Town wrote:maybe worse, but more entertaining in my opinion
Re: Is the Premier League really worse now than in 2005-09?
Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 5:42 pm
by treiz
Det the Threat wrote:Actually, you can.
Everybody and their mother in Germany knows that you can't compete with Bayern, financially, and therefore no one cares about the league title all that much. It's boring as hell and the only time people really get angry is when Bayern, once again does some dirty business transfer wise or if Sammer's saying another stupid thing.
Just like last season when he said that teams should question themselves if they work/practice hard enough and said that this(not the money) was the reason they can't compete with them.
Yes, english premier league teams do get more money.
Still, I don't think it results in teams other then the top 4 - 5 really fielding a top notch team or what not. What it does is increase transfer fees to insane amounts of money, as every club asks for the moon once the teams from EPL wants a player.
For example, I just read that Arsenal wants to buy a 21 year old cb from Ipswich, who's only made the starting eleven this season and that they're offering 10 million euros.
That's just nuts and shows you how inflated the market in England is.
Also, I don't think EPL teams below 6th place are all that much better then Bundesliga teams at that level and there's also at least one surprise team in Germany every season.
On top off that, if my club would have to go against a team like West Ham, Tottenham, Everton etc. I would like our chances.
If you don't care about the league title then what's the point? At the end of the day that's what everybody is competing for, and the idea that only one team is in it sort of kills the vibe. EPL is not that much better with a two horse race, but there is still an uncertainty there, even more uncertainty when it comes to the European spots. Also more uncertainty in games, look at Newcastle, Sunderland, QPR and some of the results they've pulled out against the big guns. It is sad that Bayern has been allowed to (in Mass' words) build a monopoly in the Bundesliga.
Also safe to say that the mid table EPL teams is better than every other mid table team in Spain, Germany, France etc.
I think you're confusing one thing, it's not the fact that the market is inflated in general that the Ipswich CB is commanding that much. It's because he's BOTH English and young that inflates his price. Just look at Liverpool's transfer history in the last few years for more examples on how broken the market is for English players.
Look at some of the transfers this season: Sanchez, Cesc, Costa, Blind, Herrera etc. Some of these signings are very reasonably priced signings that even other clubs offered. But you look at Chambers, Lallana etc (apart from maybe Welbeck) that moved in the summer and you can't help but feel there was definite overpay there.
Re: Is the Premier League really worse now than in 2005-09?
Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 6:33 pm
by 40yards
for sure now Premier League is worse than the 'golden era'…..just take a look on the champions league. last champion is spanish, last runner up is spanish too. best players play in spain in madrid or barcelona, best goalkeeper plays in germany. what does it rest in Premier League? i think best global football, best games, they are often very fought and hard. it's a pleasure to see them.