Would USA dominate soccer if..

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Would USA dominate soccer if.. 

Post#1 » by Anti Chalmers » Tue Oct 17, 2017 6:49 pm

Soccer was the number 1 sport. Imagine super athletes like Westbrook decided to play soccer at a young age instead of basketball. Kawhi with a 7'4 wingspan and huge hands being a goalie would be crazy as well.
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Re: Would USA dominate soccer if.. 

Post#2 » by mademan » Tue Oct 17, 2017 6:51 pm

I think the game of soccer would change. I dont care how much people say it's not about size; when the competition is fielding guys who are 6'5, faster and stronger and have been playing the sport just as long (assuming skill will even out), the bigger/stronger/faster one wins out (there will always be exceptions)
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Re: Would USA dominate soccer if.. 

Post#3 » by yesh » Tue Oct 17, 2017 6:53 pm

No. They'd dominate football (the proper one), if they had the best players. Football isn't a game that overly values height, as Leo Messi and Maradona can attest to. Often, players with a lower center of gravity are at an advantage on the offensive end.
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Re: Would USA dominate soccer if.. 

Post#4 » by dc » Tue Oct 17, 2017 6:55 pm

Anti Chalmers wrote:Soccer was the number 1 sport. Imagine super athletes like Westbrook decided to play soccer at a young age instead of basketball. Kawhi with a 7'4 wingspan and huge hands being a goalie would be crazy as well.


I'm not a soccer expert, and they'd certainly be a lot better if soccer was the #1 focus of all athletes, but it goes beyond that.

The coaching system and "pay to play" youth system are also big parts of why the US is so behind. As Klinsmann pointed out, the US does everything the opposite as everyone else with the "pay to play" system, and they wonder why they're behind everyone else. It's because they're using a system that isn't nearly as efficient at producing world class players as everyone else, but they keep going by it.
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Re: Would USA dominate soccer if.. 

Post#5 » by yesh » Tue Oct 17, 2017 6:56 pm

mademan wrote:I think the game of soccer would change. I dont care how much people say it's not about size; when the competition is fielding guys who are 6'5, faster and stronger and have been playing the sport just as long (assuming skill will even out), the bigger/stronger/faster one wins out (there will always be exceptions)


Holland has the tallest median height in the world, and they don't dominate.
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Re: Would USA dominate soccer if.. 

Post#6 » by boomershadow » Tue Oct 17, 2017 6:56 pm

Roy Hibbert probably doesn't have much going on. Maybe he should try his hand at being goalie.
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Re: Would USA dominate soccer if.. 

Post#7 » by levon » Tue Oct 17, 2017 6:57 pm

mademan wrote:I think the game of soccer would change. I dont care how much people say it's not about size; when the competition is fielding guys who are 6'5, faster and stronger and have been playing the sport just as long (assuming skill will even out), the bigger/stronger/faster one wins out (there will always be exceptions)

Certain body types are inherently more optimal at certain tasks. That's like saying gymnastics would change if Wilt was a gymnast. You need that lower center of gravity for balance.
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Re: Would USA dominate soccer if.. 

Post#8 » by mademan » Tue Oct 17, 2017 6:59 pm

yesh wrote:
mademan wrote:I think the game of soccer would change. I dont care how much people say it's not about size; when the competition is fielding guys who are 6'5, faster and stronger and have been playing the sport just as long (assuming skill will even out), the bigger/stronger/faster one wins out (there will always be exceptions)


Holland has the tallest median height in the world, and they don't dominate.


Are they also the fastest? Strongest? Are they the best athletes all around? The US, like in basketball, would produce the best athletes in the world. Given the US's resources and the emphasis put on sports, if the country was only about soccer, their level of skill would be near the top as well. When skill evens out, give me the superior athletes
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Re: Would USA dominate soccer if.. 

Post#9 » by Oscar9992 » Tue Oct 17, 2017 6:59 pm

Nope... Athleticism is just a small part of the 'whole picture' in soccer.

Technical abilites & IQ are way more important there... As some poster above already pointed out just look Messi, Maradonna, Zidane etc. None of them have great athletic abilities but yeat Great soccer players.

The fastest man ever Usain Bolt would never be a good soccer player cause of his lack technical skills.


Some soccer players can barely run but they have great IQ, Vision, Positioning, Anticipation, Decision Making etc. combining with excellent technical abilities... so they easily can orchestre & dictate the whole tempo of the game. Look for likes of Xavi, Pirlo, Scholes, Iniesta etc.
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Re: Would USA dominate soccer if.. 

Post#10 » by yesh » Tue Oct 17, 2017 7:08 pm

mademan wrote:
yesh wrote:
mademan wrote:I think the game of soccer would change. I dont care how much people say it's not about size; when the competition is fielding guys who are 6'5, faster and stronger and have been playing the sport just as long (assuming skill will even out), the bigger/stronger/faster one wins out (there will always be exceptions)


Holland has the tallest median height in the world, and they don't dominate.


Are they also the fastest? Strongest? Are they the best athletes all around? The US, like in basketball, would produce the best athletes in the world. Given the US's resources and the emphasis put on sports, if the country was only about soccer, their level of skill would be near the top as well. When skill evens out, give me the superior athletes


There has yet to be a basketball sized athlete that has ever made it through, and probably for good reason. the co-ordination required in soccer is just different to basketball. A 6'7 athlete (as an example) would get turned inside out by a twisting winger with the ball stuck to his feet. There could definitely be a role for those guys if they had the right skills, but throwing them all out on the pitch wouldn't do you any favours. You may be right as we've never seen it, but all the most technically gifted players have generally been smaller for a reason.
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Re: Would USA dominate soccer if.. 

Post#11 » by Stanq » Tue Oct 17, 2017 7:12 pm

You have any idea how cocky it sounds when you expect your country to be the best at the most popular sport in the world "if they just tried harder" ?
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Re: Would USA dominate soccer if.. 

Post#12 » by DaddyCool19 » Tue Oct 17, 2017 7:38 pm

I don't think they would. Maybe in the junior competition where early bloomers can somewhat dominate with their earlier fully grown physiques (looking at the cheating Nation of Nigeria, who use older players to dominate, which caused the Fifa to ban most of their players this time) but can't achieve anything in the senior tournaments.
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Re: Would USA dominate soccer if.. 

Post#13 » by Fable » Tue Oct 17, 2017 7:42 pm

The USA need first to beat Trinidad and Tobago and to qualify for the World Cup before delusions of grandeur of "dominating football". I know it's probably unfair to ask the USA to beat two countries at once.

Currently the best US player is a son of Croatian immigrants whose height is 173 centimeters without tons of muscle playing for the German club Borussia Dortmund.
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Re: Would USA dominate soccer if.. 

Post#14 » by AdagioPace » Tue Oct 17, 2017 7:46 pm

nope

coordination, IQ, technique-minutiae, vision, the ability to play withtin the flow of the offense. The ability to stop the ball for example with the outside of your foot brings an advantage relative to what you're going to do next,the ability to stop the ball with the open-foot brings another.....these are the kind of details that MATTERS a LOT in soccer and athletic players do not have any advantage on the way they learn this stuff


athleticism is a plus, the more the better but if athleticism was the most important thing african teams would have dozens of world cups
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Re: Would USA dominate soccer if.. 

Post#15 » by Illmatic12 » Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:01 pm

yesh wrote:
mademan wrote:
yesh wrote:
Holland has the tallest median height in the world, and they don't dominate.


Are they also the fastest? Strongest? Are they the best athletes all around? The US, like in basketball, would produce the best athletes in the world. Given the US's resources and the emphasis put on sports, if the country was only about soccer, their level of skill would be near the top as well. When skill evens out, give me the superior athletes


There has yet to be a basketball sized athlete that has ever made it through, and probably for good reason. the co-ordination required in soccer is just different to basketball. A 6'7 athlete (as an example) would get turned inside out by a twisting winger with the ball stuck to his feet. There could definitely be a role for those guys if they had the right skills, but throwing them all out on the pitch wouldn't do you any favours. You may be right as we've never seen it, but all the most technically gifted players have generally been smaller for a reason.

That is false, Peter Crouch is a 6'7 striker and has scored over 100 goals in England
There have been many great footballers like Zlatan, Cristiano Ronaldo, Zidane who were fairly tall (6'+) and technically gifted.

And besides not every American athlete is gargantuan, in the NFL only the quarterbacks, lineman and some WRs are exceptionally tall. There are many smaller guys like Odell Beckham, Antonio Brown, Devonta Freeman who are impossibly shifty/quick with low centers of gravity. Or you can look at PGs in the NBA, someone like Chris Paul who is ~5'10 and he clearly has elite quickness, vision and spatial awareness that you could envision translating to the soccer pitch.


The fact of the matter is that IF it was the #1 cultural sport in the US like it is around the world, simply based on the pool of available athletes and financial resources there is NO question that America would be a force in world football.

America's problem is that soccer is "pay to play" at the lower levels, which weeds out the talented kids who's families don't have the financial means to further their amateur development. I personally played soccer from a toddler up until 6th grade when I got invited to a (very costly) travel team but my parents couldn't afford it. And I was better than many of the kids who were on that team at my position , the only difference is they had parents willing to pay several thousand dollars a year. At that point I switched to football and basketball, which were much cheaper and more accessible. I am surely not the only one with a similar story, but it goes to show how backwards the American system is for fostering soccer development.
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Re: Would USA dominate soccer if.. 

Post#16 » by WalterBenjamin » Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:04 pm

No. Look at Messi. His advantage lies on the number od touches he makes in a unit of time compared to others. Totaly diferent tipe of athleticism we are talking about.
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Re: Would USA dominate soccer if.. 

Post#17 » by Illmatic12 » Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:06 pm

AdagioPace wrote:nope

coordination, IQ, technique-minutiae, vision, the ability to play withtin the flow of the offense. The ability to stop the ball for example with the outside of your foot brings an advantage relative to what you're going to do next,the ability to stop the ball with the open-foot brings another.....these are the kind of details that MATTERS a LOT in soccer and athletic players do not have any advantage on the way they learn this stuff


athleticism is a plus, the more the better but if athleticism was the most important thing african teams would have dozens of world cups

I mean, 75% of the French NT is African descent they clearly have a lot of pure athleticism at their midfield and forward positions. You cannot say that athleticism is not an advantage in the sport. The difference is that for the French, it's combined with the proper skills and technique training.
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Re: Would USA dominate soccer if.. 

Post#18 » by mademan » Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:11 pm

AdagioPace wrote:nope

coordination, IQ, technique-minutiae, vision, the ability to play withtin the flow of the offense. The ability to stop the ball for example with the outside of your foot brings an advantage relative to what you're going to do next,the ability to stop the ball with the open-foot brings another.....these are the kind of details that MATTERS a LOT in soccer and athletic players do not have any advantage on the way they learn this stuff


athleticism is a plus, the more the better but if athleticism was the most important thing african teams would have dozens of world cups


I feel like you guys are going to far with this athleticism thing. I said the US would get to a level of skill thats similar or better than most countries. To me, with the emphasis US puts on sports and the diversity, huuuuuge pool of players and the FACT (something that a lot of people underestimate) that the US has a culture that rewards creativity and individualism, their skill level would at the top. Thats just added ontop of the athleticism edge the states would have.

I think people often forget how many people live in the US. The US has the same population as the entire Western Europe.
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Re: Would USA dominate soccer if.. 

Post#19 » by Stanq » Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:23 pm

Illmatic12 wrote:
yesh wrote:
mademan wrote:
Are they also the fastest? Strongest? Are they the best athletes all around? The US, like in basketball, would produce the best athletes in the world. Given the US's resources and the emphasis put on sports, if the country was only about soccer, their level of skill would be near the top as well. When skill evens out, give me the superior athletes


There has yet to be a basketball sized athlete that has ever made it through, and probably for good reason. the co-ordination required in soccer is just different to basketball. A 6'7 athlete (as an example) would get turned inside out by a twisting winger with the ball stuck to his feet. There could definitely be a role for those guys if they had the right skills, but throwing them all out on the pitch wouldn't do you any favours. You may be right as we've never seen it, but all the most technically gifted players have generally been smaller for a reason.

That is false, Peter Crouch is a 6'7 striker and has scored over 100 goals in England
There have been many great footballers like Zlatan, Cristiano Ronaldo, Zidane who were fairly tall (6'+) and technically gifted.

And besides not every American athlete is gargantuan, in the NFL only the quarterbacks, lineman and some WRs are exceptionally tall. There are many smaller guys like Odell Beckham, Antonio Brown, Devonta Freeman who are impossibly shifty/quick with low centers of gravity. Or you can look at PGs in the NBA, someone like Chris Paul who is ~5'10 and he clearly has elite quickness, vision and spatial awareness that you could envision translating to the soccer pitch.


The fact of the matter is that IF it was the #1 cultural sport in the US like it is around the world, simply based on the pool of available athletes and financial resources there is NO question that America would be a force in world football.

America's problem is that soccer is "pay to play" at the lower levels, which weeds out the talented kids who's families don't have the financial means to further their amateur development. I personally played soccer from a toddler up until 6th grade when I got invited to a (very costly) travel team but my parents couldn't afford it. And I was better than many of the kids who were on that team at my position , the only difference is they had parents willing to pay several thousand dollars a year. At that point I switched to football and basketball, which were much cheaper and more accessible. I am surely not the only one with a similar story, but it goes to show how backwards the American system is for fostering soccer development.


As someone from a rather poor country who happens to be the greatest ever in football (maybe not today, but historically wise) I can asure you that money and a good national football team could not be more disconected.

By the way, following your logic it's absurd that people don't consider China one of the greatest teams today, right? I mean, they have money to spend, love the game and have over 1 billion people to pick the best from.
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Re: Would USA dominate soccer if.. 

Post#20 » by RGM_SU » Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:26 pm

It's amusing to see guys who only have a superficial knowledge of the sport talk about how the US would dominate if Westbrook or Kawhi chose to play football instead of basketball. Seems like it's really hard for US-Americans to acknowledge that there is something in the world that they are not good at.

And to cite Peter Crouch as example of a big who's made it. :lol: Peter Crouch used to be a walking joke. Yes he's scored 103 goals in the Premier League, but he needed 435 matches to do it. That's one goal every 4.22 matches, a terrible rate for a striker. His best season saw him score a mere 12 goals. Harry Kane by comparison has scored 84 goals in 124 matches in the Premier League already for a rate of one goal every 1.48 matches and he's scored more than 20 goals in each of the last three seasons (and this season he's at 6 goals in 8 matches). And don't get me started on the insane scoring rate of Cristiano Ronaldo or Lionel Messi.

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