Spanish La Liga Discussion Thread

[Foye]

Joao Felix is one of the worst overpays ever…

[fbalmeida]

Benfica fan here: "But not for me!"

He's a fantastic talent but not 126 million euros type talent.

His girlfriend though...

[Baphomet]

Benfica fan here: "But not for me!"

He's a fantastic talent but not 126 million euros type talent.

His girlfriend though...

Pedro Porro agrees.

[SgtPepper]

Simeone deserves to be sacked for multiple windows of bad transfer decisions and bad mgmt in the CL this year. The WC break probably helps him a lot to reset the momentum.

[fbalmeida]

I'd submit that there are definitely two managers I can think of that have been provided with the finest tenderloin available but have opted to turn it into hamburgers. Fernando Santos and Simeone. Both have managed to maintain their jobs on past merits.

Specifically, Simeone's failure to integrate João Félix is a scandal imho.

[SgtPepper]

I agree, but I always thought Felix was overhyped/priced because he was marketed as a striker yet has only played as a #10 at a high level. He's not mobile enough or composed enough as a finisher, in part because Atleli mismanaged his injury recoveries last year.

Atleti fed into that story by paying 50+M more than Felix is worth and then benching him behind potatoes like Morata. Apparently Someone also changed the lineup in those must-win final 2 cl games by starting their 4th best cb over their most consistent cb.

Meanwhile Someone is the best paid manager in Europe

[SgtPepper]

Barca beat Real in the supercopa to win their first post-Messi title yesterday. It's not an important title but the result probably reflects Barca's true dominance over Madrid this season. Before the WC break I thought Real would be close enough to probably win the league but it's starting to look like the 2nd Ancelotti season from his first stint in terms of underperformance against the mini-league including Europa league level sides and making redundant rather than essential buys. There is a young core coming into their peaks, but on the other hand there's the overdependence on a 35yo striker whose been half fit and overusage of a 37yo Modric who is clearly suffering from wc hangover (though even in normal seasons he has runs of bad form). Games like this also made me miss Casemiro a lot.

The biggest gap relevant to the league is that Barca's defense is a lot more solid with Christensen, Kounde, and Araujo gelling. During the summer I was hoping for Gnabry to displace the dependency on the 35+ crew, but now there's no obvious transfer solution to upgrade the front 3 rotation. Strangely I like the least prolific of the rotation most - Rodrygo. He's a very smart decisionmaker and can combine as a generalist with the widest range of partners. I think in my ideal world a high level attacker who naturally plays at rw/striker comes in, Fede moves into cm taking Modric's spot, and Benz/Rodrygo play as the cf.

[SgtPepper]

One more minor point - Madrid is short on Spanish talent currently compared to the class of 2014 largely because of PSG's wealth & growth. In a world where the latter treaded water Hakimi and Fabian Ruiz would be in the rotation adding quality and serving the club and national homegrown quotas.

[SgtPepper]

Madrid's main problem is tactical rather than personnel. The biggest difference between the seasons is that this year Madrid's 2 most used formations have shifted a bit. Last year they defaulted to 433 with vertical pass progressions most common to the 442 diamond, and secondarily they used a dutch 343 especially on the right wing to cover Carvajal's weaknesses (in height and athleticism) and amplify his strengths as a totalfootballer. This year that 433 has evolved to Ancelotti's favorite formation - the 4321 Christmas tree while the dutch right wing has become more of a liability because Fede Valverde is being used in the deeper cm or rb cover positions than classic right wing.

This causes a few problems. One is that Rudiger, now a starter, is a much worse distributer and vertical presser than Alaba so the playmaking from the back is worse and the team ends up overly dependent on Kroos since he and Alaba are the players who switch play most often to fix the bad shapes the team can get into since they play a highly fluid style. Another issue is that the people used at right wing normally (Rodrygo and Asensio) are neither physically imposing enough to win against their defenders in a direct or counterattacking style nor are they even often in the correct position to defend against pacy leftbacks. Both problems have solutions in the squad - restore Alaba to starter except in matches with prolific target men and swap the positions of Rodrygo and Valverde. Rodrygo is a very smart player and a lot of his combination play and even the shift to the Christmas tree hints than Ancelotti thinks he adds a lot as a midfielder in 3-5-2ish formation. But the positions where his lack of physicality are covered best are probably at the 9, 10, and cm.

[Sedale Threatt]

Valencia RB with one of the dirtier tackles I've seen in a while. God damn. Just went with the full-on leg chop vs. Vinicius. Ugly.

[SgtPepper]

https://www.besoccer.com/new/man-city-rejected-madrid-offer-for-cancelo-before-bayern-loan-1228984

This was probably a smart and Machiavellian move by Madrid. If Bayern buy Cancelo in the summer Madrid will probably make a real go at Kimmich.

[SgtPepper]

From the outset It's remarkable how similar Ancelotti's 2nd year this stint is to the 2nd year of his first Madrid stint. Both times Ancelotti tried to get rid of Casemiro (and this time succeeded), lost la liga against a pretty unimpressive side, shifted formations from a 433 to a a narrower formation, and generally made transfers that addressed unimportant rather than crucial positions of need.

As for la liga altogether it's been difficult to read. It's good that both Atleti and Barcelona have begun bouncing back from the nadir of awfulness from Dec 2021-22, but the middle class of la liga is getting poached by clubs like Newcastle and PSG and that's disrupting the breakout of talents who would have traditionally broken through to the big 3 via a series of Spanish clubs (like David Villa, Griezman, Isco, etc). Currently it looks like Italy and Germany are incubating continental talent better.

[SgtPepper]

Madrid has protected it's perfect record of clasico defeats this season, and it's not because Xavi or Barcelona are brilliant.

Madrid are stale and overusing these old inconsistent slow players this season in Benzema and Modric. This summer CF and both fullbacks need to be strengthened. The stupidity of the right back rotation is uniquely an Ancelotti idiosyncracy though. There are 3 30+ year old club homegrown players in the rotation so whoever gets cut will be a big loss from a squad design perspective. I've always been a bit skeptical of Haaland to Madrid ideas due to bad assimilation record of bundesliga forwards and Norwegians at the club, but the regret of missed opportunity is palpable now because there are no comparable forwards on the market Madrid could afford.

[SgtPepper]

There's been a bit of a trade war between City & Real the past 3 years. Guys like Cancelo and Bernardo who could have had better growth potential in their peak years via a Real move 1-2 years ago are stuck as rotation at City past those peak years on abnormally long contracts. It's possible this is a consequence of both trading out the Benfica line, but I think it's more that Pep has gone out of his way to rule Madrid out as a rival target especially after he gave us Kroos on a discount. The reason to bring this up now is there's a rumour Haaland has a foreign club exit clause that's relatively cheap (200m in contrast to worse players normally securing 1B) and it does seem possible his camp and Madrid would spring for it in light of failed Mbappe bid last year and Benzema's injuries this season.

[SgtPepper]

Madrid finally beat Barcelona. It was a Spanish tactics-driven result where Madrid turned everyone into a midfielder and ignored Balde as a threat the whole match to good results. The best correction was seeing Vinicius and Valverde dueling Marcos Alonso at centerback and burning him multiple times as the worst centerback option in Barca's squad.

It's nice that Madrid doesn't have a pure defeat record anymore but beating this overrated team which was beaten by multiple Europa league teams this season is barely an achievement. Also this clasico was another demonstration of how weak Madrid is at the fullback positions this season.

[SgtPepper]

From the outset It's remarkable how similar Ancelotti's 2nd year this stint is to the 2nd year of his first Madrid stint. Both times Ancelotti tried to get rid of Casemiro (and this time succeeded), lost la liga against a pretty unimpressive side, shifted formations from a 433 to a a narrower formation, and generally made transfers that addressed unimportant rather than crucial positions of need.

As for la liga altogether it's been difficult to read. It's good that both Atleti and Barcelona have begun bouncing back from the nadir of awfulness from Dec 2021-22, but the middle class of la liga is getting poached by clubs like Newcastle and PSG and that's disrupting the breakout of talents who would have traditionally broken through to the big 3 via a series of Spanish clubs (like David Villa, Griezman, Isco, etc). Currently it looks like Italy and Germany are incubating continental talent better.

Media buzz is claiming Ancelotti is slated to staynext season. Now at the near end of the season the above post held up strongest - Ancelotti and the squad's underperformance were basically identical to the 1st time. The biggest difference between now and the last time the club sacked Ancelotti is that the club has been far cheaper this time and has less promising alternatives both at the managerial and player level. Madrid are riding geriatrics like Benzema and Modric till they decline out of continental level while the pipeline of generational replacements has become weak for the first time in ~11 years. I also wonder if Vini is a transfer risk given how poorly la liga is governed both with respect to the racism and fouling controversies on pitch this season and with respect to overall governance (the string of poor mgmt decisions by Tebas & co). Tebas and high foreigner tax policy were indirectly why CR7 & Messi left the league.

I think the other big la liga clubs are in a better circumstances now, and it's nice to see UEL deep runs despite being their squad's being poached faster these days.

[MetalFingaz]

Hard to say Madrid has really underperformed. Yes they got embarrassed by a financially-juiced City (in a UCL semi!) and lost the league to a Barcelona side that hasn't played in Europe for months, and yes that's a down year, but pundits said this team was done years ago. They certainly need a Kroos replacement, a Benzema replacement, and to strengthen their fullbacks, but they're not miles off being competitive. If they just get Jude in the summer, they'll be in pretty good shape.

[SgtPepper]

Eden, Mariano, Asensio and Benzema out already leaving just the Brazilians & youth players as the forwards available. It's an aggressive start to the summer and Ancelotti is claiming the club will buy a couple forwards. Given this pattern is pretty similar to what the club did at center back 2 seasons ago I think they'll target older forwards like Kane & Bobby they can lure with high wages.