European Super League (Indefinitely Suspended)

[Rasho Brezec]

I think it's a great move. European soccer has been a joke forever. We cry about super teams in the NBA, but European soccer's entire history has been dominated by them. At least now they'll be playing each other instead of beating up on minor league-level competition. Sure the random little clubs are going to die out in the process, but the final product is going to be so much more competitive.

I see posters on Reddit mocking the idea of having a draft and a salary cap in this new league (as if that's some sort of bad thing). I feel sorry for my friends and family in Europe who have never watched sports leagues with actual competitive balance. They don't see anything wrong with their favourite teams being nothing more than punching bags for the rich clubs. And for fans of the rich clubs, I always thought it was embarrassing when they would brag about winning a league where their team's payroll is higher than the next 19 team's payrolls combined. Great, your team, with it's All-World roster and €1 billion payroll, showed they can beat up on community centre rec league teams. Now how about they win against actual competition... It's ironic that Americans have to teach Europeans about the benefits of socialism in sport.

Imho. you have no clue what you're talking about and what this decisions brings.
You're aware that UEFA's income take care with financing everything soccer related in Europe including smallest local clubs, football schools, etc ...
This decicion can hurt whole soccer perspective in general. It's beyond my understanding how someone can consider this as good.

It's because they don't understand how traditional European sport works.

Traditional European sports work in such a way that you have one governing body, littered with corrupt bureaucrats, that holds monopoly over rules and regulations of any competition in that sport.

We had the same spiel two decades ago with Euroleague basketball, major clubs got sick of FIBA's bull and formed their own competition, FIBA tried to counter with their own version of it but failed miserably.

[HIF]

Imho. you have no clue what you're talking about and what this decisions brings.
You're aware that UEFA's income take care with financing everything soccer related in Europe including smallest local clubs, football schools, etc ...
This decicion can hurt whole soccer perspective in general. It's beyond my understanding how someone can consider this as good.

It's because they don't understand how traditional European sport works.

Honestly, it's likely bad for European Football in general. This doesn't benefit fans of smaller clubs (Rich get richer).

But as someone who supports Liverpool in America, I don't really have an issue with it.

Selfishly, I actually love the idea of it. Have for a while now. It just feels right.

Spoiler:

As you can tell, I'm not a good person.

I can understand how American or Asian or African supporters may be okay with it but do you really think you'd be happy playing the same 14 clubs every year without the cups to mix with other teams? I don't think the players would be happy not to have international football and accolades either.

I hope you do it because I think after a few hard years for the English leagues it would work out well, breaking the stupid bubble of money and bringing in rules for supporter ownership in clubs like in Germany.

[HIF]

Those countries with no historical attachment to football, so maybe the new US kids, the Chinese and other Asian markets will happily accept and support the new league in which case it'll thrive financially but to be honest they don't understand that football was created as the sport of the people and made to be a sport of equality and merit.I love the draft system, salary caps and some other parts of the US sports system but that is not what football is about. It is not about a closed shop. It is about teams having dreams of moving from non-league to professional to Europe and it happens.

That's the exact opposite of what football is now and what it has been for decades.

Chelsea and City became perennial contenders because they were purchased by Russian and Emirati billionaires, respectively. Where is the "merit" in that? They didn't earn ****. They bought their way to contention, as that is the only path to contention in European club football. You live in France, you can tell me about how "meritocratic" PSG and Monaco's rise to the top was.

Since 1992, the EPL has been won by a non-big market club twice... This isn't a sport "of the people". It's a sport of the rich.

My view is if the core is already this rotten, you might as well let it die and become something new.

Speaking of equality and merit, let's look at how many different teams have won American leagues since 1992:

NBA: 11
NFL: 15
MLB: 16
NHL: 15

Literally half the teams in these leagues have won titles in that span. It doesn't matter how rich their owners are because there are rules in place to keep rich clubs from outspending the poor (or in the case of MLB, rules that allow the poor to keep pace with the rich). If the European football federations were serious about maintaining "equality" and ensuring clubs rise to the top based on "merit" they would have had checks and balances in place to limit the powers of the rich clubs. But that was never the case. They were happy to ride the fat, rich dicks of the billionaire owners. Now that these owners want to leave them out to dry, they cry foul. They made this bed. Now they can sleep in it. They never cared about the small clubs, and never will.

I think football fans hold onto this romanticized illusion of what the sport was 100 years and don't see that it hasn't been that for decades.

You're just showing how little you know.

Man city and Chelsea are big now but you probably don't even know that they only won 1 title each in over 100 years. You also seem to fail to realise how many teams exist in Europe it's not 20 or 30 like your American markets where so many cities don't have the possibility of a team. Still we just live in different worlds. If you think it's good that's your prerogative. I don't.

[aggerrard]

Don't really know what to say or think. I'm greatly against the proposal though. Relegations and promotions in a NATIONAL league system is deeply integrated in European football. Liverpool thrown out of the Premier League to play against other 'superteams' across Europe - talk about creating monopoly in the sport.

We already have the Champions League. The biggest annual sports tournament in the world. UEFA should listen to the demands. Play less games, have less tournaments. But come on, creating a superleague it not the answer. European Football is too big for that.

[wco81]

Yeah it could be an American thing but really, how much interest do Europeans have in the lower leagues, no matter how much history and tradition those clubs have?

Or will you even watch matches of the bottom tier clubs in the top leagues? Relegation fights never were much of a draw for me, if I'm being honest.

And a lot of the clubs in the CL from smaller nations, you know in general they have no chance. I mean it's great when a Porto breaks through and wins it all. Or the year Leicester won the EPL.

But that's why I'm dubious about expanding the CL, if they fill it with some more Eastern European or Turkish clubs or something like that.

[Raps in 4]

Those countries with no historical attachment to football, so maybe the new US kids, the Chinese and other Asian markets will happily accept and support the new league in which case it'll thrive financially but to be honest they don't understand that football was created as the sport of the people and made to be a sport of equality and merit.I love the draft system, salary caps and some other parts of the US sports system but that is not what football is about. It is not about a closed shop. It is about teams having dreams of moving from non-league to professional to Europe and it happens.

That's the exact opposite of what football is now and what it has been for decades.

Chelsea and City became perennial contenders because they were purchased by Russian and Emirati billionaires, respectively. Where is the "merit" in that? They didn't earn ****. They bought their way to contention, as that is the only path to contention in European club football. You live in France, you can tell me about how "meritocratic" PSG and Monaco's rise to the top was.

Since 1992, the EPL has been won by a non-big market club twice... This isn't a sport "of the people". It's a sport of the rich.

My view is if the core is already this rotten, you might as well let it die and become something new.

Speaking of equality and merit, let's look at how many different teams have won American leagues since 1992:

NBA: 11
NFL: 15
MLB: 16
NHL: 15

Literally half the teams in these leagues have won titles in that span. It doesn't matter how rich their owners are because there are rules in place to keep rich clubs from outspending the poor (or in the case of MLB, rules that allow the poor to keep pace with the rich). If the European football federations were serious about maintaining "equality" and ensuring clubs rise to the top based on "merit" they would have had checks and balances in place to limit the powers of the rich clubs. But that was never the case. They were happy to ride the fat, rich dicks of the billionaire owners. Now that these owners want to leave them out to dry, they cry foul. They made this bed. Now they can sleep in it. They never cared about the small clubs, and never will.

I think football fans hold onto this romanticized illusion of what the sport was 100 years and don't see that it hasn't been that for decades.

You're just showing how little you know.

Man city and Chelsea are big now but you probably don't even know that they only won 1 title each in over 100 years.

That's my point. They were garbage franchises until a couple billionaires from Russia and the UAE bought them and started spending hundreds of millions of pounds signing the best players in the world. Where is the "merit" in that? The only way your favourite team can contend in European football is if they get bought by a rich owner. The foundations of European football are rotten.

[HIF]

Imho. you have no clue what you're talking about and what this decisions brings.
You're aware that UEFA's income take care with financing everything soccer related in Europe including smallest local clubs, football schools, etc ...
This decicion can hurt whole soccer perspective in general. It's beyond my understanding how someone can consider this as good.

It's because they don't understand how traditional European sport works.

Traditional European sports work in such a way that you have one governing body, littered with corrupt bureaucrats, that holds monopoly over rules and regulations of any competition in that sport.

We had the same spiel two decades ago with Euroleague basketball, major clubs got sick of FIBA's bull and formed their own competition, FIBA tried to counter with their own version of it but failed miserably.

Again you're comparing apples and oranges. Basketball is an American sport with a short American history. it's like comparing McDonalds with French cuisine and I'm not talking about quality.

Most European basketballers grow up watching the NBA and their dream is to be part of that.

I can also see why youngsters will be more into the idea than older people.

[Cactus Jack]

Honestly, it's likely bad for European Football in general. This doesn't benefit fans of smaller clubs (Rich get richer).

But as someone who supports Liverpool in America, I don't really have an issue with it.

Selfishly, I actually love the idea of it. Have for a while now. It just feels right.

Spoiler:

As you can tell, I'm not a good person.

I can understand how American or Asian or African supporters may be okay with it but do you really think you'd be happy playing the same 14 clubs every year without the cups to mix with other teams? I don't think the players would be happy not to have international football and accolades either.

Champions League is pretty much the same group of teams anyway. I don't see that much of a difference honestly in the setup. Other than teams (15), not having to qualify. Yeah it sucks for the other clubs. But if you're a fan of the big 6 in England, than this is nothing but terrific news.

I don't & never have really cared about domestic cups all that much. You know this.

[aggerrard]

Honestly, it's likely bad for European Football in general. This doesn't benefit fans of smaller clubs (Rich get richer).

But as someone who supports Liverpool in America, I don't really have an issue with it.

Selfishly, I actually love the idea of it. Have for a while now. It just feels right.

Spoiler:

As you can tell, I'm not a good person.

I can understand how American or Asian or African supporters may be okay with it but do you really think you'd be happy playing the same 14 clubs every year without the cups to mix with other teams? I don't think the players would be happy not to have international football and accolades either.

Champions League is pretty much the same group of teams anyway. I don't see that much of a difference honestly in the setup. Other than teams (15), not having to qualify. Yeah it sucks for the other clubs. But if you're a fan of the big 6 in England, than this is nothing but terrific news.

I don't & never have really cared about domestic cups all that much. You know this.

Meh. Talk for yourself.

For me, even as a foreigner, the Prem has always been the biggest tournament. Now it would be relegated to some practice tournament, if we're not kicked out of the league system entirely. Don't include me in your statement.

[Cactus Jack]

I can understand how American or Asian or African supporters may be okay with it but do you really think you'd be happy playing the same 14 clubs every year without the cups to mix with other teams? I don't think the players would be happy not to have international football and accolades either.

Champions League is pretty much the same group of teams anyway. I don't see that much of a difference honestly in the setup. Other than teams (15), not having to qualify. Yeah it sucks for the other clubs. But if you're a fan of the big 6 in England, than this is nothing but terrific news.

I don't & never have really cared about domestic cups all that much. You know this.

Meh. Talk for yourself.

For me, even as a foreigner, the Prem has always been the biggest tournament. Now it would be relegated to some practice tournament, if we're not kicked out of the league system entirely. Don't include me in your statement.

Don't get me wrong. Winning the Prem is always top priority. But domestic cups are another thing entirely.

This move is potentially huge financially for the club. This changes nothing as far as the Prem is concerned. UEFA is throwing a fit. But this is a win/win imo.

[HIF]

Champions League is pretty much the same group of teams anyway. I don't see that much of a difference honestly in the setup. Other than teams (15), not having to qualify. Yeah it sucks for the other clubs. But if you're a fan of the big 6 in England, than this is nothing but terrific news.

I don't & never have really cared about domestic cups all that much. You know this.

Meh. Talk for yourself.

For me, even as a foreigner, the Prem has always been the biggest tournament. Now it would be relegated to some practice tournament, if we're not kicked out of the league system entirely. Don't include me in your statement.

Don't get me wrong. Winning the Prem is always top priority. But domestic cups are another thing entirely.

This move is huge financially for the club. Win/win imo.

And there is the difference between English born supporters and many non-english born supporters. If you asked the players they dreamt of winning an FA Cup (and representing their country).

As for the money, that'll depend on broadcasting rights. You'll lose out on CL money and prem money and you'll have to hope that TV keeps paying you after the first 3-5 year contract.

[Cactus Jack]

Meh. Talk for yourself.

For me, even as a foreigner, the Prem has always been the biggest tournament. Now it would be relegated to some practice tournament, if we're not kicked out of the league system entirely. Don't include me in your statement.

Don't get me wrong. Winning the Prem is always top priority. But domestic cups are another thing entirely.

This move is huge financially for the club. Win/win imo.

And there is the difference between English born supporters and many non-english born supporters. If you asked the players they dreamt of winning an FA Cup (and representing their country).

As for the money, that'll depend on broadcasting rights. You'll lose out on CL money and prem money and you'll have to hope that TV keeps paying you after the first 3-5 year contract.

Lol the FA cup is nothing but a glorified consolation prize. I know that statement is gonna piss some off. But it's the truth.

It's a big deal for smaller clubs that don't necessarily get to compete for trophies. That's all it is.

[aggerrard]

Champions League is pretty much the same group of teams anyway. I don't see that much of a difference honestly in the setup. Other than teams (15), not having to qualify. Yeah it sucks for the other clubs. But if you're a fan of the big 6 in England, than this is nothing but terrific news.

I don't & never have really cared about domestic cups all that much. You know this.

Meh. Talk for yourself.

For me, even as a foreigner, the Prem has always been the biggest tournament. Now it would be relegated to some practice tournament, if we're not kicked out of the league system entirely. Don't include me in your statement.

Don't get me wrong. Winning the Prem is always top priority. But domestic cups are another thing entirely.

This move is huge financially for the club. This changes nothing as far as the Prem is concerned. UEFA is throwing a fit. But this is a win/win imo.

Yes it does? The Prem would be secondary to the 'super league' at best. And as for the Premier League organisation. They can't keep the same product with the 'big-6' still in the league. Who would qualify for the Champions League then? 7-11? In order to keep the product as it is, they can't have the 'big-6' in the league. With time other teams will be the new United and Liverpool, if this bullsh*t really proceeds.

It might give financial boost in the beginning, but i highly doubt a superleague can take down centuries of structured league football. And it will also just leave 15-20 teams in the 'super-league' on even terms, with transfer-fees rising and salary matching the improved finances. All this is just IF the idea actually gets the financial support they think they will.

[Rasho Brezec]

Don't really know what to say or think. I'm greatly against the proposal though. Relegations and promotions in a NATIONAL league system is deeply integrated in European football. Liverpool thrown out of the Premier League to play against other 'superteams' across Europe - talk about creating monopoly in the sport.

We already have the Champions League. The biggest annual sports tournament in the world. UEFA should listen to the demands. Play less games, have less tournaments. But come on, creating a superleague it not the answer. European Football is too big for that.

What's the big deal? This competition essentially replaces Champions League. Clubs still intend to play domestic competitions. UEFA just needs to bite the bullet and admit they're not the top dog anymore.

[Cactus Jack]

Meh. Talk for yourself.

For me, even as a foreigner, the Prem has always been the biggest tournament. Now it would be relegated to some practice tournament, if we're not kicked out of the league system entirely. Don't include me in your statement.

Don't get me wrong. Winning the Prem is always top priority. But domestic cups are another thing entirely.

This move is huge financially for the club. This changes nothing as far as the Prem is concerned. UEFA is throwing a fit. But this is a win/win imo.

Yes it does? The Prem would be secondary to the 'super league' at best. And as for the Premier League organisation. They can't keep the same product with the 'big-6' still in the league. Who would qualify for the Champions League then? 7-11? In order to keep the product as it is, they can't have the 'big-6' in the league. With time other teams will be the new United and Liverpool, if this bullsh*t really proceeds.

It might give financial boost in the beginning, but i highly doubt a superleague can take down centuries of structured league football. And it will also just leave 15-20 teams in the 'super-league' on even terms, with transfer-fees rising and salary matching the improved finances. All this is just IF the idea actually gets the financial support they think they will.

They're not going to kick the "Big 6" out of the league lol. The Prem would face serious financial ramifications & likely not be able to function as a league without their support. That's not going to happen.

It's all posturing at this stage. The big clubs hold all the power.

[aggerrard]

Don't really know what to say or think. I'm greatly against the proposal though. Relegations and promotions in a NATIONAL league system is deeply integrated in European football. Liverpool thrown out of the Premier League to play against other 'superteams' across Europe - talk about creating monopoly in the sport.

We already have the Champions League. The biggest annual sports tournament in the world. UEFA should listen to the demands. Play less games, have less tournaments. But come on, creating a superleague it not the answer. European Football is too big for that.

What's the big deal? This competition essentially replaces Champions League. Clubs still intend to play domestic competitions. UEFA just needs to bite the bullet and admit they're not the top dog anymore.

Seriously?

This is against everything European Football is. Relagation and promotion, qualification for european cups etc. As i stated. This 'super-league' would create monopoly. It would ruin the entire league system - and obviously ruin the league products. All for one 'super-league'. Yep, **** that ****. I'm not in.

[Raps in 4]

Yes it does? The Prem would be secondary to the 'super league' at best. And as for the Premier League organisation. They can't keep the same product with the 'big-6' still in the league. Who would qualify for the Champions League then? 7-11? In order to keep the product as it is, they can't have the 'big-6' in the league. With time other teams will be the new United and Liverpool, if this bullsh*t really proceeds.

Other teams won't replace them in the new EPL. People only care about the top teams right now because they're rich enough to sign the top players. If the top players are all in the ESL, that's what everyone will be watching. No owner is going to spend money on an EPL team.

It might give financial boost in the beginning, but i highly doubt a superleague can take down centuries of structured league football. And it will also just leave 15-20 teams in the 'super-league' on even terms, with transfer-fees rising and salary matching the improved finances. All this is just IF the idea actually gets the financial support they think they will.

There is very little structure in the current system, hence why this current mess even exists. Something like this would never happen in an American sports league because they are actually tightly run ships with strict competitive rules.

[Rasho Brezec]

Don't really know what to say or think. I'm greatly against the proposal though. Relegations and promotions in a NATIONAL league system is deeply integrated in European football. Liverpool thrown out of the Premier League to play against other 'superteams' across Europe - talk about creating monopoly in the sport.

We already have the Champions League. The biggest annual sports tournament in the world. UEFA should listen to the demands. Play less games, have less tournaments. But come on, creating a superleague it not the answer. European Football is too big for that.

What's the big deal? This competition essentially replaces Champions League. Clubs still intend to play domestic competitions. UEFA just needs to bite the bullet and admit they're not the top dog anymore.

Seriously?

This is against everything European Football is. Relagation and promotion, qualification for european cups etc. As i stated. This 'super-league' would create monopoly. It would ruin the entire league system - and obviously ruin the league products. All for one 'super-league'. Yep, **** that ****. I'm not in.

Who gets relegated and promoted from Champions League?

[aggerrard]

Don't get me wrong. Winning the Prem is always top priority. But domestic cups are another thing entirely.

This move is huge financially for the club. This changes nothing as far as the Prem is concerned. UEFA is throwing a fit. But this is a win/win imo.

Yes it does? The Prem would be secondary to the 'super league' at best. And as for the Premier League organisation. They can't keep the same product with the 'big-6' still in the league. Who would qualify for the Champions League then? 7-11? In order to keep the product as it is, they can't have the 'big-6' in the league. With time other teams will be the new United and Liverpool, if this bullsh*t really proceeds.

It might give financial boost in the beginning, but i highly doubt a superleague can take down centuries of structured league football. And it will also just leave 15-20 teams in the 'super-league' on even terms, with transfer-fees rising and salary matching the improved finances. All this is just IF the idea actually gets the financial support they think they will.

They're not going to kick the "Big 6" out of the league lol. The Prem would face serious financial problems & likely not be able to function as a league without their support. That's not going to happen.

It's all posturing at this stage. The big clubs hold all the power.

That's the problem. You really don't see it? The Prem is facing serious financial problems no matter what. It will be the new FA Cup or Europa League. A secondary league to the giants. The interest will fall drastically - meaning a huge loss for the entire league system and the smaller team. For what? To create a 'super-league' with gready owners sucking every **** penny possible and leaving every other team and the entire integrity for dead.

Yep, still not in.

[Raps in 4]

Don't really know what to say or think. I'm greatly against the proposal though. Relegations and promotions in a NATIONAL league system is deeply integrated in European football. Liverpool thrown out of the Premier League to play against other 'superteams' across Europe - talk about creating monopoly in the sport.

We already have the Champions League. The biggest annual sports tournament in the world. UEFA should listen to the demands. Play less games, have less tournaments. But come on, creating a superleague it not the answer. European Football is too big for that.

What's the big deal? This competition essentially replaces Champions League. Clubs still intend to play domestic competitions. UEFA just needs to bite the bullet and admit they're not the top dog anymore.

Seriously?

This is against everything European Football is. Relagation and promotion, qualification for european cups etc. As i stated. This 'super-league' would create monopoly. It would ruin the entire league system - and obviously ruin the league products. All for one 'super-league'. Yep, **** that ****. I'm not in.

When was the last time one of the big market teams got relegated? When was the last time a small market team won the CL?

The current system is a monopoly and has been for decades. Fans have just covered their eyes and pretended that wasn't the case.