Greatest soccer coach of all time?

Point forward · Post #1 » by **Point forward** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 8:28 am

My candidate is Bill Shankly. Liverpool FC is the most successful team ever in England, and Shanks *IS* LFC. W/o him, LFC would still be in the gutters: he took them over when they were at the bottom of the Second Division, and made them into one of the best teams ever... not to mention that he did not only create a team, he created the whole LFC identity. Even Bob Paisley, Matt Busby and Sir Alex Ferguson don't come close.

Post #2 » by **Slava** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 10:29 am

Bill Shankly all time winning % - 51
Bob Paisley - 56
Matt Busby - 50.1
Sir Alex - 60.1

Numbers don't lie

Post #3 » by **BlackMamba** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 6:14 pm

well, naming the greatest coach could mean to count how many trophies you have more than how many wins or how good your team plays.

another fact is the difference between coaching a national team vs. a club.

but there aren't many coaches that have won it all with their club, with the national team or even with both.

Post #4 » by **magik9113** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 6:52 pm

(homer pick:) Lippi

seriously though, he has won everything

El Turco · Post #5 » by **El Turco** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 7:00 pm

i really dont see how Bill Shankly merits as greatest, his resume:

(from wikipedia)

1 Second division title
3 First division titles
2 FA cup titles
1 UEFA cup titles

pretty average IMO, even if you compare it to some of today s managers. especially lack of significant success in intercontinental competitions bring question marks for GOAT discussion.

for example, even though i wont claim him as the greatest,Marcelo Lippi's resume,

5 First division titles
1 Coppa Italia
1 Champions league(also 3 times runner-up)
1 World Cup

much more impressive, IMO and you can even add couple "supercups".

Sir Ferguson certainly deserves to be in the discussion:

3 Scottish titles
2 Cup Winners Cup
4 Scottish Cup
9 Premier League titles
5 FA cups
1 Champions League

but, the greatest has to be Helenio Herrera:

In Spain,

4 First division titles with 2 different teams
2 Spanish Cup titles
2 UEFA cup titles

In Italy,

3 First division titles
2 Champions League titles
1 Italian Cup title

not to mention several intercontinental cups. what impresses me most is he was successful in all 3 teams. also, he was arguebly the most influential figure in italian football history with his effect on the game on the field and off.

honorable mention goes to Miguel Munoz, Udo Lattek, Rinus Michels.

Post #6 » by **Slava** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 7:13 pm

I don't see an argument for anyone to stand against Sir. Alex Ferguson. He's pulled a club out of nowhere to become the best known club in world football today and thats quite an achievement. All of United's commercial exploits and worldwide fan following can be attributed to the winning tradition that he installed at this club.

He's won more league titles than any other manager and he took the club one step higher with each passing season. 20 years at one club and still going strong! He attracted the best of football talent to the club like Roy Keane. Eric Cantona, Jaap Stam and now Rooney, Ronaldo etc and taken their game one step higher after they joined the club. Not to mention the excellent academy set up that produced the likes of Scholes, Giggs, Neville and Beckham in one season.

May be one dig at him could be his lack of considerable success in Europe but he's done something that no manager has done yet, win the treble. That single season was absolute world dominance, not even the best Real Madrid sides had a season like that.

The fact that United were playing a games against the best of the rest just underscores his success.

a-rod · Post #7 » by **a-rod** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 7:37 pm

magik9113 wrote:(homer pick:) Lippi

seriously though, he has won everything

I agree...

<homer......

Post #8 » by **BlackMamba** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 9:46 pm

yeah, i think that (of my time on earth and of whay i've seen) lippi and ferguson are by far the best coaches.

lippi because he's won everything, well, almost everything.

but maybe ferguson is the best. name one coach that has been in a team for 20 years and always in the top of the table and getting to the finals of every cup and competition.

T-dot Raps · Post #9 » by **T-dot Raps** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 10:08 pm

Wenger!

kromoszoma · Post #10 » by **kromoszoma** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 11:14 pm

It's all subjective. As an Arsenal fan, I could say name a coach that discovered as many stars as Wenger. Or one that built a new stadium for his club. Or went unbeaten in the toughest league in the world for more than a season. Or played such attractive football while being so successful.

Point forward · Post #11 » by **Point forward** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 9:17 am

I think Herrera is a fine choice. Whenever I think of Inter, I think of him and his smothering Catenaccio. But I think that trophies do not do Shankly justice. He took a gutter club (bottom Second Division) to greatness. Sir Alex took over a midfield club. Juve was already a Top 3 club before Lippi came along.

Is Sir Alex Ferguson ManU? No. Sir Matt Busby laid the foundation. Is Marcello Lippi Juve? Certainly not. I can accept Herrera > Shankly, but not the others. They were all great, but "just" continued the work of others. Shankly built up LFC with his bare fists.

Post #12 » by **Slava** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 9:54 am

Point forward wrote:Is Sir Alex Ferguson ManU? No. Sir Matt Busby laid the foundation. Is Marcello Lippi Juve? Certainly not. I can accept Herrera > Shankly, but not the others. They were all great, but "just" continued the work of others. Shankly built up LFC with his bare fists.

I remember Man U being in the 2nd division before Sir Alex took over. Matt Busby was the 1st generation of United and he did great things until Munich. Sir. Alex started the revival from the 80s.

treiz · Post #13 » by **treiz** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 8:54 pm

Well since I've only been a football(yeah I said it!) fan for nearly 10 years. I'd have to stand by Sir Alex Ferguson.

And I'm a Chelsea fan

Point forward · Post #14 » by **Point forward** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 12:51 pm

Some other HMs:

Ernst Happel: the guy could coach anything and anybody
Johan Cruyff: short but brillant coaching career
Guy Roux: what he achieved in Auxerre is unreal

Post #15 » by **tkb** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 1:01 pm

Having been a Juventus fan for over a decade now, I can honestly say that Lippi deserves to at least be in the running. He might not be nr 1, but he's at least right up there.

Post #16 » by **Slava** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 7:30 pm

Jose Mourinho could be added to spice up the debate just because of his sheer winning percentages and championships.

Post #17 » by **bryant08** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 10:46 pm

I have to say Busby.

Point forward · Post #18 » by **Point forward** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 12:39 pm

bryant08 wrote:I have to say Busby.

Which is also the reason why Sir Alex Ferguson is not the GOAT. He is not even the greatest ManU coach, and that is not a knock on Sir Alex at all. God knows what Busby would have won w/o that tragic plane crash.

Cevap · Post #19 » by **Cevap** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 1:29 pm

Beckenbauer could've been something special. 1 World Cup, 1 UEFA Cup and 1 Bundesliga title. not bad for a few years of work.

Hard to argue with Ferguson's track record, or Cappello's, or Trappatoni's, or...

El Turco · Post #20 » by **El Turco** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 3:32 am

i d definitely take busby over ferguson. he may be bit behind fergie at the success level due to off the field issues but he was arguably the best talent evaluator in british football history.