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Team sale Progressing and how that may impact moves

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Re: Team sale Progressing 

Post#21 » by Waylay13 » Tue Dec 13, 2022 6:38 pm

bwgood77 wrote:Peter Thiel is a co founder or PayPal and was CEO untl it's sale to eBay for $1.5 billion. He was also a securities lawyer, hedge and derivatives funds owner, one of first big investors in Facebook, acquiring over 10% of it in 2004 for $500K and sold most of them in 2012 for over $1 billion, bankrupted Gawker after they outed him as being gay, is a libertarian conservative who has contributing a lot of money to right wing causes and figures.

Funds non profits doing work in AI, Life extension and Seasteds.

He is Chairman of Palantir Technologies, which does Data Mining to help stop terrorism and works with the government on unintrusive and traceable data mining. This has the financial backing of Q-Tel, a venture capital arm of the CIA.

Worth over $7 billion.

All from wikipedia.


The problem with Thiel is that he is a big backer of the Trump Republicans.
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Re: Team sale Progressing 

Post#22 » by grumpysaddle » Tue Dec 13, 2022 7:47 pm

lilfishi22 wrote:
grumpysaddle wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:For a few minutes, I thought you meant the member of this Suns forum :lol: :lol: :lol:

I think we have the collective net worth to purchase a WNBA team lol

That's probably pushing it. Maybe 10% of 10% of a WNBA team.


https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/Journal/Issues/2022/10/03/Opinion/Opinion.aspx
Numbers for the WNBA have been harder to pin down. In a story from The Athletic, Commissioner Cathy Engelbert’s math placed the average WNBA team value at more than $43.75 million.

Assuming low end might be in the ~$20m, I think the combined net worth of all members of this Suns forum is probably above that. I have nothing to back that up but just a feeling....

$20 mil is A LOT of money. With the way wealth is super concentrated at toward the top these days, I dunno if we have a combined wealth of 20 mil, unless one of us is secret super rich.
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Re: Team sale Progressing 

Post#23 » by lilfishi22 » Tue Dec 13, 2022 9:59 pm

grumpysaddle wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:
grumpysaddle wrote:That's probably pushing it. Maybe 10% of 10% of a WNBA team.


https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/Journal/Issues/2022/10/03/Opinion/Opinion.aspx
Numbers for the WNBA have been harder to pin down. In a story from The Athletic, Commissioner Cathy Engelbert’s math placed the average WNBA team value at more than $43.75 million.

Assuming low end might be in the ~$20m, I think the combined net worth of all members of this Suns forum is probably above that. I have nothing to back that up but just a feeling....

$20 mil is A LOT of money. With the way wealth is super concentrated at toward the top these days, I dunno if we have a combined wealth of 20 mil, unless one of us is secret super rich.

Like you said, it only takes maybe 2-3 relatively rich dudes (not super rich) on here with a net worth of $2-3m to already get about a quarter to a third of the way to that $20m. Super quick google search places the median net worth of Americans as $122k, so if the average realGM'er has half the median net worth at ~$60k, you only need about 333 posters lol. That number would be drastically reduced if there are a couple of rich dudes.
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Re: Team sale Progressing 

Post#24 » by bwgood77 » Tue Dec 13, 2022 10:16 pm

grumpysaddle wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:
grumpysaddle wrote:That's probably pushing it. Maybe 10% of 10% of a WNBA team.


https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/Journal/Issues/2022/10/03/Opinion/Opinion.aspx
Numbers for the WNBA have been harder to pin down. In a story from The Athletic, Commissioner Cathy Engelbert’s math placed the average WNBA team value at more than $43.75 million.

Assuming low end might be in the ~$20m, I think the combined net worth of all members of this Suns forum is probably above that. I have nothing to back that up but just a feeling....

$20 mil is A LOT of money. With the way wealth is super concentrated at toward the top these days, I dunno if we have a combined wealth of 20 mil, unless one of us is secret super rich.


Yeah, unless peope are counting their home values and not subtracting their mortgage (though I'm sure some own their's free and clear), I'd be surprised if we hit that. Many might have in the hundreds of thousands but many might have not much at all or live paycheck to paycheck.
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Re: Team sale Progressing 

Post#25 » by WeekapaugGroove » Tue Dec 13, 2022 10:32 pm

Most (maybe all) untra rich dudes buy politicians (err 'contribute to campaigns'). That's just how our politics work. Theil is a bit extreme though because he doesn't do it nearly as quietly as say someone like Larry Ellison (huge GOP donor) so there's some potential PR fall out with him down the road.

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Re: Team sale Progressing 

Post#26 » by bwgood77 » Tue Dec 13, 2022 10:40 pm

WeekapaugGroove wrote:Most (maybe all) untra rich dudes buy politicians (err 'contribute to campaigns'). That's just how our politics work. Theil is a bit extreme though because he doesn't do it nearly as quietly as say someone like Larry Ellison (huge GOP donor) so there's some potential PR fall out with him down the road.

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In Phoenix backing Trump might be viewed as a positive (if he does indeed back Trump).

Anyway, I don't care all that much about the politics of the owner if they invest in the Suns and the Suns are a perennial contender. Their political leanings are pretty irrelevant when it comes to that unless it would deter players from signing, but for players, usually money talks as well as being a contender.
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Re: Team sale Progressing 

Post#27 » by WeekapaugGroove » Tue Dec 13, 2022 11:19 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:Most (maybe all) untra rich dudes buy politicians (err 'contribute to campaigns'). That's just how our politics work. Theil is a bit extreme though because he doesn't do it nearly as quietly as say someone like Larry Ellison (huge GOP donor) so there's some potential PR fall out with him down the road.

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In Phoenix backing Trump might be viewed as a positive (if he does indeed back Trump).

Anyway, I don't care all that much about the politics of the owner if they invest in the Suns and the Suns are a perennial contender. Their political leanings are pretty irrelevant when it comes to that unless it would deter players from signing, but for players, usually money talks as well as being a contender.
Well the last couple elections in AZ haven't exactly been great for trump or his minions.

What I was trying to say was all rich dudes pour money into politics. I don't care about that but I prefer the ones who do it quietly vs the ones who are more outspoken that can lead to non basketball related headlines.

But yeah players don't really care. Look at the Magic, the DeVos family are some spooky ultra conservative loons.

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Re: Team sale Progressing 

Post#28 » by bwgood77 » Tue Dec 13, 2022 11:30 pm

WeekapaugGroove wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:Most (maybe all) untra rich dudes buy politicians (err 'contribute to campaigns'). That's just how our politics work. Theil is a bit extreme though because he doesn't do it nearly as quietly as say someone like Larry Ellison (huge GOP donor) so there's some potential PR fall out with him down the road.

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In Phoenix backing Trump might be viewed as a positive (if he does indeed back Trump).

Anyway, I don't care all that much about the politics of the owner if they invest in the Suns and the Suns are a perennial contender. Their political leanings are pretty irrelevant when it comes to that unless it would deter players from signing, but for players, usually money talks as well as being a contender.
Well the last couple elections in AZ haven't exactly been great for trump or his minions.

What I was trying to say was all rich dudes pour money into politics. I don't care about that but I prefer the ones who do it quietly vs the ones who are more outspoken that can lead to non basketball related headlines.

But yeah players don't really care. Look at the Magic, the DeVos family are some spooky ultra conservative loons.

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I guess that's true regarding Trump but it feels like there are a ton of fans and a ton of "anyone but him"...anyway, I don't think that matters. In addition to the players, fans will go to the games if the team is competitive.

Many rich people and companies contribute to both parties too.
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Re: Team sale Progressing 

Post#29 » by Slim Charless » Wed Dec 14, 2022 1:20 am

WeekapaugGroove wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:Most (maybe all) untra rich dudes buy politicians (err 'contribute to campaigns'). That's just how our politics work. Theil is a bit extreme though because he doesn't do it nearly as quietly as say someone like Larry Ellison (huge GOP donor) so there's some potential PR fall out with him down the road.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app


In Phoenix backing Trump might be viewed as a positive (if he does indeed back Trump).

Anyway, I don't care all that much about the politics of the owner if they invest in the Suns and the Suns are a perennial contender. Their political leanings are pretty irrelevant when it comes to that unless it would deter players from signing, but for players, usually money talks as well as being a contender.
Well the last couple elections in AZ haven't exactly been great for trump or his minions.

What I was trying to say was all rich dudes pour money into politics. I don't care about that but I prefer the ones who do it quietly vs the ones who are more outspoken that can lead to non basketball related headlines.

But yeah players don't really care. Look at the Magic, the DeVos family are some spooky ultra conservative loons.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app


Yeah, I don't agree with his point. AZ is turning purple if anything with the losses of all the RWers. I'm not in Arizona so I'm not sure about the general vibe with Sinema, but she seems like she's ripe to be primaried come 2024.

As to the larger point of who owns the team-doesnt matter what their religion/politics is. Just pay our players and make sure you put a winning product on the court. Basically the exact opposite of everything that Boobie $arver did.
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Re: Team sale Progressing 

Post#30 » by Slim Charless » Wed Dec 14, 2022 1:23 am

On a separate note, I'd bet that most of these owners are probably big time Republicans. It is after all the party of the rich and few are more wealthy than professional sports team owners. Ours was 1 of the poorest and he was still worth probably half a billion minimum I'm sure.
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Re: Team sale Progressing 

Post#31 » by garrick » Wed Dec 14, 2022 2:52 am

Slim Charless wrote:On a separate note, I'd bet that most of these owners are probably big time Republicans. It is after all the party of the rich and few are more wealthy than professional sports team owners. Ours was 1 of the poorest and he was still worth probably half a billion minimum I'm sure.

That's true but there's a big difference between supporting your run of the mill Republicans and supporting the more extremists like MTG, Boebert or Hawley.
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Re: Team sale Progressing 

Post#32 » by ImNotMcDiSwear » Wed Dec 14, 2022 5:14 pm

There are very, very, very, very few things that could pose a threat to my Suns fandom. But Peter Thiel? A rich guy being a plutocrat - well, that's pretty par for the course. I can deal with that. But Thiel has been pretty outspoken about his antipathy to democracy.

A "pure" laissez-faire capitalist has no problems with a system that would inevitably result in the concentration of all wealth and power in the hands of extremely few people, such that the welfare and survival of the majority is contingent upon the interests or charity of the extremely rich. But capitalism cannot exist without the state (otherwise it's anarcho-capitalism), and a pure capitalist would still support a "neutral" government that enforces the neutral rules that, again, inevitably tend toward concentration of wealth.

From what I can tell, Thiel is to the right of that. He seems to endorse capturing the instruments of government in order to suspend the neutral application of laws to his advantage, because the plebs simply aren't worthy of their franchise. Fascism is a term that many people would apply to that view. It's not just letting the laws of nature grind us common folk under the wheel of progress but rather, applying the force of the state to actively facilitate that process to the benefit of those special people who have taken control of the state and its profits, without the possibility of recourse or balance through legitimate democratic processes.

If Thiel is the guy who would benefit from my support of the team, I'd withdraw that support. Trump might disgust me, but at least he's dumb - merely reckless. But Thiel is intentional, malicious. A guy who'd throw up his hands at the destruction of the masses if necessary to the sort of "progress" he'd prefer. (And when I say "the masses," my mind goes immediately to the children. So read me as saying: he's OK with dead children if it's good for him or his vision. "Hey, it's just Darwin, man," a guy like him might say.)

So yeah, there are plenty potential owners I wouldn't like, whom I might view as a wart on the team's legacy: destined, ultimately, to be removed. There are very few who would cause me to abandon my fandom. Thiel makes the short list. F*** that guy for real. I wouldn't even be a troll around here. I'd say goodbye to y'all and straight up vanish.
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Re: Team sale Progressing 

Post#33 » by spanishninja » Thu Dec 15, 2022 5:25 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
grumpysaddle wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:
https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/Journal/Issues/2022/10/03/Opinion/Opinion.aspx

Assuming low end might be in the ~$20m, I think the combined net worth of all members of this Suns forum is probably above that. I have nothing to back that up but just a feeling....

$20 mil is A LOT of money. With the way wealth is super concentrated at toward the top these days, I dunno if we have a combined wealth of 20 mil, unless one of us is secret super rich.


Yeah, unless peope are counting their home values and not subtracting their mortgage (though I'm sure some own their's free and clear), I'd be surprised if we hit that. Many might have in the hundreds of thousands but many might have not much at all or live paycheck to paycheck.


we own our home outright but my wife would probably take exception to us going homeless just to become one of many minority owners of the team lol.
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Re: Team sale Progressing 

Post#34 » by bwgood77 » Thu Dec 15, 2022 7:23 pm

spanishninja wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
grumpysaddle wrote:$20 mil is A LOT of money. With the way wealth is super concentrated at toward the top these days, I dunno if we have a combined wealth of 20 mil, unless one of us is secret super rich.


Yeah, unless peope are counting their home values and not subtracting their mortgage (though I'm sure some own their's free and clear), I'd be surprised if we hit that. Many might have in the hundreds of thousands but many might have not much at all or live paycheck to paycheck.


we own our home outright but my wife would probably take exception to us going homeless just to become one of many minority owners of the team lol.


Yeah, including your home (less any mortgage) as net worth is right, but people sometimes fail to take into consideration the lack of liquidity (though I guess you could take out a huge mortgage against it helping with that), but your net worth wouldn't change, just your liquidity.

And if you sold, you'd also likely have large tax consequences as well if you didn't buy again.
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Re: Team sale Progressing 

Post#35 » by spanishninja » Thu Dec 15, 2022 7:27 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
spanishninja wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
Yeah, unless peope are counting their home values and not subtracting their mortgage (though I'm sure some own their's free and clear), I'd be surprised if we hit that. Many might have in the hundreds of thousands but many might have not much at all or live paycheck to paycheck.


we own our home outright but my wife would probably take exception to us going homeless just to become one of many minority owners of the team lol.


Yeah, including your home (less any mortgage) as net worth is right, but people sometimes fail to take into consideration the lack of liquidity (though I guess you could take out a huge mortgage against it helping with that), but your net worth wouldn't change, just your liquidity.

And if you sold, you'd also likely have large tax consequences as well if you didn't buy again.


I got dibs to live in front of the Thunder Dan wall on the 200-level concourse if need be.
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Re: Team sale Progressing 

Post#36 » by bwgood77 » Fri Dec 16, 2022 9:22 pm

Ghost of Kleine wrote:https://bleacherreport.com/videos/320366-latest-on-jae-crowder-market
Good listen at 3:00 minutes in for perspective on things. Also:

https://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2022/12/14/23507232/phoenix-suns-not-allowed-to-trade-a-first-round-pick-until-a-new-owner-is-in-place-jae-crowder
Suns can’t trade any future first round picks?
Insider Eric Pincus of Bleacher Report quotes a source as saying the Suns may not be able to commit to anything ‘long term’ until a new owner is in place and, in Pincus’ words, “that may only be an issue if the Suns have to give up first-round compensation.”

The Suns have all their draft picks going forward. Sure the picks might not be very high up (likely 25-30th overall), but a first round pick still has value. In the last two years, Jones has traded his 2020-2022 first round picks for Chris Paul, Landry Shamet and Torrey Craig.

If the Suns are stuck to trading only players for players, and not taking on any new significant future money either, that would seriously impact the Suns ability to improve the team this season and beyond.

Interim team governor Sam Garvin spoke to Duane Rankin of azcentral.com ($) and the Arizona Republic this week. Garvin — who’s been in the Suns partnership with Robert Sarver since 2004 — is handling day-to-day ownership duties this season while the suspended Sarver is trying to sell the team to the highest bidder. Looks like bids are already in the $3 billion range.

It’s quite possible Garvin and Sarver have decided that payroll and assets are in a holding pattern until a new owner is in place. That could mean GM James Jones has authority to make trades as long as the net result is basically the same money and future picks.


https://bvmsports.com/2022/12/14/suns-not-allowed-to-trade-a-first-round-pick-until-a-new-owner-is-in-place/

https://fansided.com/2022/12/14/suns-ownership-trade-deadline-approach/

Basically multiple reports from the same source Eric Pincus that's saying he's got his own league sources indicating broad sentiment on this too. It will be interesting to see what goes down in the coming week of the trade deadline! :nod:


Just a request, but can you put all these repetitive sale posts in the Team Sale progression thread? I think it helps to keep the content in this thread about actual deals rather than so many long posts discussing this. I will move this response there.

I think this is just general speculation by the same guy, especially based on the last part...

It’s quite possible Garvin and Sarver have decided that payroll and assets are in a holding pattern until a new owner is in place. That could mean GM James Jones has authority to make trades as long as the net result is basically the same money and future picks.
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Re: Team sale Progressing and how that may impact moves 

Post#37 » by lilfishi22 » Tue Dec 20, 2022 10:08 pm

Locked as the Sarver Era is over!

Use this thread instead
https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=2249893

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