Moderators: bwgood77, Qwigglez, lilfishi22
Desertfox wrote:So cutting Payne and Paul does zero for the team.
bwgood77 wrote:This shows our cap for each year. Should help with trade ideas. I felt it might save GoK in particular ample time to make sure all proposed trades are possible.
As you can see, next year, if we cut Paul and Payne, we are at $138 million (we would pay them a total of $17.8 to cut them)...but if we keep them, our salary is at $157 million without cap holds for current players not under contract/draft picks/minimums to fill out roster.
The cap is projected at $134 million and the tax at $162 million.
Our tax payment for this year appears to be almost $35 million.Spoiler:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:bwgood77 wrote:This shows our cap for each year. Should help with trade ideas. I felt it might save GoK in particular ample time to make sure all proposed trades are possible.
As you can see, next year, if we cut Paul and Payne, we are at $138 million (we would pay them a total of $17.8 to cut them)...but if we keep them, our salary is at $157 million without cap holds for current players not under contract/draft picks/minimums to fill out roster.
The cap is projected at $134 million and the tax at $162 million.
Our tax payment for this year appears to be almost $35 million.Spoiler:
That's great man! And thanks for helping out! So now that you've indicated cutting Paul and Payne would put us at around 138 million, where do you suppose we would be at if we traded say...................
Paul/ Crowder/ Shamet for Westbrick (expiring) and Toscano Anderson?? Instead of having to pay 15 million to offload Paul's partial guarantee, wouldn't that end up shaving around 48- 49 million?? And have us at around
118 million or around 32 million under the luxury tax or 12 under the cap?? Or say if we traded Paul and Crowder for Russell and Prince ( 7 million unguaranteed contract). Wouldn't that basically shave around 35 million off our books this summer 45 million with Saric's expiring and 50 million with Craig also coming off the books!
I could see either of those trades being very REALISTICALLY possible IF the suns are willing to commit to moving Paul and clearing cap space!
bwgood77 wrote:Ghost of Kleine wrote:bwgood77 wrote:This shows our cap for each year. Should help with trade ideas. I felt it might save GoK in particular ample time to make sure all proposed trades are possible.
As you can see, next year, if we cut Paul and Payne, we are at $138 million (we would pay them a total of $17.8 to cut them)...but if we keep them, our salary is at $157 million without cap holds for current players not under contract/draft picks/minimums to fill out roster.
The cap is projected at $134 million and the tax at $162 million.
Our tax payment for this year appears to be almost $35 million.Spoiler:
That's great man! And thanks for helping out! So now that you've indicated cutting Paul and Payne would put us at around 138 million, where do you suppose we would be at if we traded say...................
Paul/ Crowder/ Shamet for Westbrick (expiring) and Toscano Anderson?? Instead of having to pay 15 million to offload Paul's partial guarantee, wouldn't that end up shaving around 48- 49 million?? And have us at around
118 million or around 32 million under the luxury tax or 12 under the cap?? Or say if we traded Paul and Crowder for Russell and Prince ( 7 million unguaranteed contract). Wouldn't that basically shave around 35 million off our books this summer 45 million with Saric's expiring and 50 million with Craig also coming off the books!
I could see either of those trades being very REALISTICALLY possible IF the suns are willing to commit to moving Paul and clearing cap space!
Using the guaranteed contract amounts of keeping Paul ($30.8) and then Shamet ($10.2) and taking back expirings instead of having those on the books saves $41 million off of the $157, so we'd be at $116, though I think that leaves us with only 5 players, so you'd have 10 cap holds of at least $1.6 (probalby more) or $16 million more, so our cap with holds (and that's 10 minimums, not draft picks, etc)...we'd be at $132.
With the projected cap at $134, there is pretty much no chance to create much cap space for us unless we traded one of our other 4 starters for an expiring.
None of that makes sense when FA is not guaranteed.
Our only chance is trades or draft picks. That's why, as dremill suggested, even if we can't find a good trade, maybe we just take back ok players who at least have contracts so we will maintain tradable pieces..maybe expiring ones.
lilfishi22 wrote:I really wonder if we're going to do anything with CP3's contract before the trade deadline. Not saying the $15m-ish we'll be saving in cap space and tax (but also wasting in dead guaranteed salary) is going to make any difference on the free agent market this offseason but whether there is even appetite to move on from Chris this season.
We haven't heard a single peep or rumor from anyone about any team or Suns even mentioning CP3 so I'm guessing there's next to no chance of that happening. CP3's deal is fully guaranteed for 23-24 at the end of June so I suppose we have time to cut him and just eat the dead salary if we wanted to lower our tax for next year or in a more unlikely scenario, find an trade after the end of our season but before the deadline.
Ghost of Kleine wrote:bwgood77 wrote:Ghost of Kleine wrote:
That's great man! And thanks for helping out! So now that you've indicated cutting Paul and Payne would put us at around 138 million, where do you suppose we would be at if we traded say...................
Paul/ Crowder/ Shamet for Westbrick (expiring) and Toscano Anderson?? Instead of having to pay 15 million to offload Paul's partial guarantee, wouldn't that end up shaving around 48- 49 million?? And have us at around
118 million or around 32 million under the luxury tax or 12 under the cap?? Or say if we traded Paul and Crowder for Russell and Prince ( 7 million unguaranteed contract). Wouldn't that basically shave around 35 million off our books this summer 45 million with Saric's expiring and 50 million with Craig also coming off the books!
I could see either of those trades being very REALISTICALLY possible IF the suns are willing to commit to moving Paul and clearing cap space!
Using the guaranteed contract amounts of keeping Paul ($30.8) and then Shamet ($10.2) and taking back expirings instead of having those on the books saves $41 million off of the $157, so we'd be at $116, though I think that leaves us with only 5 players, so you'd have 10 cap holds of at least $1.6 (probalby more) or $16 million more, so our cap with holds (and that's 10 minimums, not draft picks, etc)...we'd be at $132.
With the projected cap at $134, there is pretty much no chance to create much cap space for us unless we traded one of our other 4 starters for an expiring.
None of that makes sense when FA is not guaranteed.
Our only chance is trades or draft picks. That's why, as dremill suggested, even if we can't find a good trade, maybe we just take back ok players who at least have contracts so we will maintain tradable pieces..maybe expiring ones.
Thanks again man! That makes more sense now. So there's no way to clear those cap holds other than renouncing them then? Or could we even do that though?
bwgood77 wrote:Ghost of Kleine wrote:bwgood77 wrote:
Using the guaranteed contract amounts of keeping Paul ($30.8) and then Shamet ($10.2) and taking back expirings instead of having those on the books saves $41 million off of the $157, so we'd be at $116, though I think that leaves us with only 5 players, so you'd have 10 cap holds of at least $1.6 (probalby more) or $16 million more, so our cap with holds (and that's 10 minimums, not draft picks, etc)...we'd be at $132.
With the projected cap at $134, there is pretty much no chance to create much cap space for us unless we traded one of our other 4 starters for an expiring.
None of that makes sense when FA is not guaranteed.
Our only chance is trades or draft picks. That's why, as dremill suggested, even if we can't find a good trade, maybe we just take back ok players who at least have contracts so we will maintain tradable pieces..maybe expiring ones.
Thanks again man! That makes more sense now. So there's no way to clear those cap holds other than renouncing them then? Or could we even do that though?
You can clear Cam Johnson (and any other unsigned current player cap holds) by renouncing them. But we wouldn't renounce Cam..we will at a minimum, let him go into RFA.
You can't renounce the minimum cap holds for unused roster spots because you have to have a full roster...so they put holds on at the min for all unfilled spots.
bwgood77 wrote:lilfishi22 wrote:I really wonder if we're going to do anything with CP3's contract before the trade deadline. Not saying the $15m-ish we'll be saving in cap space and tax (but also wasting in dead guaranteed salary) is going to make any difference on the free agent market this offseason but whether there is even appetite to move on from Chris this season.
We haven't heard a single peep or rumor from anyone about any team or Suns even mentioning CP3 so I'm guessing there's next to no chance of that happening. CP3's deal is fully guaranteed for 23-24 at the end of June so I suppose we have time to cut him and just eat the dead salary if we wanted to lower our tax for next year or in a more unlikely scenario, find an trade after the end of our season but before the deadline.
You know, thinking about it, I thought the Lakers were the only team that Paul might be traded to, but thinking more on it, the Lakers will have cap space this summer. They only have $98 million in salaries for next year...so with that in mind, and the chance to sign a nice FA, it would seem to be pretty dumb for them to trade for Paul...even if they cut him that would obviously substantially bit into their cap space. Unless they think Paul for next year is better than any FA they could sign. With other cap holds (minimum roster build out) they would have less than $30 million...maybe around $20 million or a little less.
lilfishi22 wrote:I really wonder if we're going to do anything with CP3's contract before the trade deadline. Not saying the $15m-ish we'll be saving in cap space and tax (but also wasting in dead guaranteed salary) is going to make any difference on the free agent market this offseason but whether there is even appetite to move on from Chris this season.
We haven't heard a single peep or rumor from anyone about any team or Suns even mentioning CP3 so I'm guessing there's next to no chance of that happening. CP3's deal is fully guaranteed for 23-24 at the end of June so I suppose we have time to cut him and just eat the dead salary if we wanted to lower our tax for next year or in a more unlikely scenario, find an trade after the end of our season but before the deadline.
Bogyo wrote:Thanks BW - needed this, as I wasn't fully up to date on it. I had a feeling that we were pretty capped out, CP or no CP - that's why I've been trying to come up with CP trades (or trades in general) where we kinda keep our salary structure, so Ishbia can work from that.
Sooo, the Clippers trades for CP+Crowder are looking best for both sides... thats about 40 mill salary for 2 players for us, and we'd take back 3 players (contracts) most likely. They have 8 players with salaries between 16 and 8 mill, so plenty to work with from there.
BobbieL wrote:Bogyo wrote:Thanks BW - needed this, as I wasn't fully up to date on it. I had a feeling that we were pretty capped out, CP or no CP - that's why I've been trying to come up with CP trades (or trades in general) where we kinda keep our salary structure, so Ishbia can work from that.
Sooo, the Clippers trades for CP+Crowder are looking best for both sides... thats about 40 mill salary for 2 players for us, and we'd take back 3 players (contracts) most likely. They have 8 players with salaries between 16 and 8 mill, so plenty to work with from there.
Covington, Reggie Jackson and Batum for Crowder and Paul?
Maybe the Suns just need to talk to Paul and see if a trade to the Clippers is amenable