The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 2

[sunsbum]

If Suns start a rebuild with Ware, Jovic picks from Miami than keeping Booker makes no sense especially if HOU wants to beat Magic offer for Bane. BobbieL has said it a thousand times already, but I just wanted to reiterate this simple truth.

BobbyL doesn’t run the suns. So where does that get us?

[One_and_Done]

https://www.espn.com.au/nba/story/_/id/45521332/nba-offseason-2025-intel-desmond-bane-trade-means-durant-draft

How does this impact the Kevin Durant trade saga?

In speaking with several sources Sunday in the wake of the Bane deal, the universal belief is that any draft packages going to Phoenix in a Durant deal will likely surpass the haul of draft picks coming to Memphis for Bane, who hasn't yet made an All-Star team.

"Everyone has to throw their prior precedents and baselines out," said one executive, who referred back to not only the Bane trade but the five firsts the New York Knicks traded for Mikal Bridges last year as having nothing to do with how to properly value Durant.

"Those deals don't mean Durant is worth 12 firsts now," they said.

But what, exactly, is Durant worth? It's the question people around the league continue to ask as the saga continues.

As ESPN's Shams Charania reported Saturday night, Durant is willing to sign a contract extension with three teams: the Houston Rockets, San Antonio Spurs and Miami Heat. However, sources around the league are still talking about the Minnesota Timberwolves as a potential landing spot for Durant.

What does seem clear is that the package isn't going to be anywhere near the haul that the Brooklyn Nets received for Durant two-and-a-half years ago, a deal consummated within the first 24 hours owner Mat Ishbia took control of the Suns. How Ishbia will react to that will be telling, and could determine how this process plays out.

Colour me surprised. Pleasantly

If you re-read the article you will see that was a typo he has now corrected. He meant to say it 'won't' surpass what they got for Bane.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Read on Twitter

This tweet is wrong. That is not how the 2nd apron works. We can receive multiple players back in a KD trade, just can’t send multiple players out in a single trade unless the result gets us below the 2nd.

Sure! Wgat you said is absolutely correct! But I think this tweet is more trying to allude to the necessity of doing this as a failsafe as to not possibly trigger the 2nd apron hardcap in the event of not taking back significantly less salary in a KD trade.

And having other potential salary increases scale extensions, etc or even minor follow up moves that might push us back over the 2nd apron?? Or maybe something to that effect. Not that I'd expect us to nearly take back a "dollar for dollar" return in a KD trade anyways.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Read on Twitter

And not that KD should reasonably pull 4-5 1sts under the conditions of his age and contract status. But in terms of impact, production and statistical efficiency still being elite and NOT predicated upon physicality or natural athleticism.


So, his value SHOULD at least return a couple of young promising prospects, a centerpiece player, vet fillers and around 2-3 very solid picks. The majority of national pundits place his current value in relation to the market in the Tier B star range of an All NBA impact producer.

And despite the age arguments he's still producing at that level. And the contract arguments are mitigated by the fact that he's openly stated his intentions to resign at his desired destinations and for teams not on his list, they'd hold his third rights and be able to offer him more money anyways.

[Saberestar]

I think that the Heat will not make Ware available in the trade. They will prefer to lose more picks than make him available.

The most possible outcome IMO is a three team trade:

Suns: Jovic, Claxton, Duncan Robinson, #20, one unprotected pick and some swap/2nd.

Miami: KD

Nets: Wiggins + FRP.

That way we get our PF and C of the future.

We get a salary relief in Duncan Robinson who could be waived for less than $10M.

And we get enough draft capital. 1 unprotected FRP, #20 and some swap/2nd. Hopefully a bit more than that.

[Bogyo]

I think that the Heat will not make Ware available in the trade. They will prefer to lose more picks than make him available.

The most possible outcome IMO is a three team trade:

Suns: Jovic, Claxton, Duncan Robinson, #20, one unprotected pick and some swap/2nd.

Miami: KD

Nets: Wiggins + FRP.

That way we get our PF and C of the future.

We get a salary relief in Duncan Robinson who could be waived for less than $10M.

And we get enough draft capital. 1 unprotected FRP, #20 and some swap/2nd. Hopefully a bit more than that.

Thats a very realistic scenario in my book as well, and I wouldn't be dissapointed. I wouldn't be happy either, but the mistake was overpaying for KD (then making that dumb trade for Beal). You reap what you sow.
Now if there is one more good player or a better pick involved I'm all for it, and that's not unrealistic either - but again, noone in their right mind should overpay for a 37year old with injury history and being unhappy in the last 5 or whatever years (last in GS, BKN, PHX), that is enough of a bad track record, and the lack of leadership is just too glaring at this point in my opinion.

[One_and_Done]

Honestly, Jovic is just not that good.

[Blonde]

Wiggins is the most appealing salary filler by far. He would start at SF immediately.

[dremill24]

Heat are a tough one for me. Their tradeable contracts are tough to fit and they dont have a ton of super atttactive pieces to me. If they can pay to cut payroll and give up Ware then it might be worthwhile. I cant really see them being in the mix without including Ware. Been workshopping something like:

MIA: Wiggins, Robinson, Ware, Jaquez, #20, '31 1st, '27 2nd, '32 2nd, cash for Durant
BKN: #27 for Robinson, #20, '27 2nd, cash
PHX: Durant for Wiggins, Ware, Jaquez, #27, '31 1st, '32 2nd

Ware is a major gamble but the upside is obvious. Wiggins is a veteran POA defender who isnt a total negative on offense. Jaquez is just a flier...good as a rook and disappointing as a soph; can add some shot creation to a bench unit alongside Beal. Late 1st this year and a tradeable one for the future. Plus a boatload of savings (~$18M) that combined with ditching Martin/Micic should actually drop them below the first apron if Im not mistaken (tho it'd be close w/ two rooks). I think cutting payroll is going to be much more important to Phoenix than most are giving credit to.

I dont love it, would much rather deal with Houston, but Ware and the savings are attractive. Still have holes at the 1 and the 4 but that's why you have a whole offseason to work with.

Possible that they'd have to forego the additional 1st or Jaquez from Miami to get them to bite (could swap Jaquez out for Jovic if Miami likes Jaquez better tbh). Could need to be Rozier instead of Wiggins as well, which I think would make the draft capital easier to MIA to part with. Also not 100% sure Brooklyn is appropriately compensated but I think its close, particularly if they're able to waive Robinson for savings.

[Saberestar]

Wiggins is the most appealing salary filler by far. He would start at SF immediately.

Do you prefer Wiggins over Claxton?

They have similar salaries but Claxton is younger and on a slightly better contract. He fills a position of need...and not only for the Suns. Multiple teams are trying to improve at C and Claxton fits the mold for most of those teams. Higher value.

Wiggins is OK but I think he needs to be in a particular environment to succeed because he can lose his motivation easier than other players. And we have Dunn at SF already, so he isn't THAT needed.

[lilfishi22]

Honestly, Jovic is just not that good.

He's nice. Multi-skilled forward who can shoot the 3 , can handle the ball, finishes well around the rim, efficient, has good size at 6-10/6-11 and could play both forward positions.

The major issue with him is injuries. Played 46 games a piece the last two seasons and 15 in his rookie season.

[Blonde]

Wiggins is the most appealing salary filler by far. He would start at SF immediately.

Do you prefer Wiggins over Claxton?

They have similar salaries but Claxton is younger and on a slightly better contract. He fills a position of need...and not only for the Suns. Multiple teams are trying to improve at C and Claxton fits the mold for most of those teams. Higher value.

Wiggins is OK but I think he needs to be in a particular environment to succeed because he can lose his motivation easier than other players. And we have Dunn at SF already, so he isn't THAT needed.

I do prefer Wiggins to Claxton. He’s become a bit overrated and Wiggins underrated. He and Dunn can share the court.

[lilfishi22]

Wiggins is the most appealing salary filler by far. He would start at SF immediately.

Do you prefer Wiggins over Claxton?

They have similar salaries but Claxton is younger and on a slightly better contract. He fills a position of need...and not only for the Suns. Multiple teams are trying to improve at C and Claxton fits the mold for most of those teams. Higher value.

Wiggins is OK but I think he needs to be in a particular environment to succeed because he can lose his motivation easier than other players. And we have Dunn at SF already, so he isn't THAT needed.

Claxton is better. Better fit for the team and his contract gets getter over time as well.

Easily prefer him over Wiggins. Question is how you get Claxton instead.

[Rebound Mound]

I think a lot of fans don’t understand how the media works. Generally, there are two extremes for front offices, in terms of their relationships with the media.

On one end of the spectrum, you have teams like the Spurs and Thunder. Nothing leaks out of these teams, and the local media basically work as a team with the organisation to put out favourable coverage. When you see a story from local reporters about the team, you know it’s one that the front office put out there. Look at how long the Spurs kept the Kawhi problems under wraps.

These organisations all tend to be small markets, and play out West. The loyalty of the media is driven by the fact that the team is the only game in town, and the owner of the media company usually has a close relationship with the owner of the team. There’s a civic pride factor as well, of “this is our towns one team, and we’re all behind it”. On the organisation side, it also makes no sense to leak, because when you work for an organisation like San Antonio or the Thunder, you are going to be poached eventually (with that organisations blessing), and become part of their coaching/exec tree. Why would you risk that to try and get good coverage by a journalist? It’d be crazy.

On the other end of the spectrum, there are markets where everything leaks, like the Knicks. These organisations tend to be in the East, whose media is bigger than the team, and have dysfunctional owners that appoint nepotistic hires into the front office. These nepo-hires compete with each other for the ear of the interfering owner, and try to build up their own fiefdoms in the organisation. To that end, it makes sense to leak how another rivals fiefdom supposedly screwed up something. Because everyone is leaking, it’s hard to figure out who leaked what, and the owner has loyalties that mean the GM can’t just sack the people he doesn’t trust. In San Antonio or OKC, if the lead decision maker doesn’t trust you, then you’re gone. In these big, Eastern sieves, the GM is often a rival to these entrenched buddies of the owner. The biggest challenge of being the Orlando GM? You have to work with Alex “the snake” Martins, who has been there for decades and is basically the shadow GM.

That brings us back to this situation. KD is leaking through Shams who he won’t extend with. That’s to let those teams know not to bother trading for him (which will make them lower their offers, which in turn will mean the Suns won’t trade him there because the offers will suck). The Suns are leaking through their man Gambo that everything is going to be great, and they have something wonderful lined up, to get an early start on PR control with the fans, and in a doomed attempt to create leverage with the far superior organisations they’re stuck negotiating with (SA, Miami, and Houston). The Spurs are leaking to their fans that Sochan isn’t in the deal, and nor is Castle or the #2, and all they’re offering is guys like Vassell/Barnes/Keldon, and have told Sochan he isn’t getting traded (which is why he’s confidently trolling everyone on social media). That’s where things stands now. Basically anything Gambo says is spoon fed by the Suns PR, in exchange for him continuing to get favourable access.

Not to forget Gambo's criticizing of all other sources out there and saying his is the only reliable one.
You explained that quite well and then imagine this at another, higher level like politics...

[Saberestar]

Wiggins is the most appealing salary filler by far. He would start at SF immediately.

Do you prefer Wiggins over Claxton?

They have similar salaries but Claxton is younger and on a slightly better contract. He fills a position of need...and not only for the Suns. Multiple teams are trying to improve at C and Claxton fits the mold for most of those teams. Higher value.

Wiggins is OK but I think he needs to be in a particular environment to succeed because he can lose his motivation easier than other players. And we have Dunn at SF already, so he isn't THAT needed.

Claxton is better. Better fit for the team and his contract gets getter over time as well.

Easily prefer him over Wiggins. Question is how you get Claxton instead.

Better fit for the team AND he has played already for Jordan Ott. They were together several years in Brooklyn.

The C position is on the rise again and we need to have a good starting C. Claxton had a somewhat down year but he is just 26 and has already shown that he is a game changer on defense.

He would give us a much needed defensive C who can switch on the perimeter and can be a rim protector. Not too many Cs can do that.

He is limited on offense. 50-55% FT shooter...at least better than M. Robinson lol. But he is a great lob threat and runs the court like a gazelle for a C.

If we want to play fast on offense and aggressive on defense he is the best C available to execute that style of play.

[Slim Charless]

I think that the Heat will not make Ware available in the trade. They will prefer to lose more picks than make him available.

The most possible outcome IMO is a three team trade:

Suns: Jovic, Claxton, Duncan Robinson, #20, one unprotected pick and some swap/2nd.

Miami: KD

Nets: Wiggins + FRP.

That way we get our PF and C of the future.

We get a salary relief in Duncan Robinson who could be waived for less than $10M.

And we get enough draft capital. 1 unprotected FRP, #20 and some swap/2nd. Hopefully a bit more than that.

Thats a very realistic scenario in my book as well, and I wouldn't be dissapointed. I wouldn't be happy either, but the mistake was overpaying for KD (then making that dumb trade for Beal). You reap what you sow.
Now if there is one more good player or a better pick involved I'm all for it, and that's not unrealistic either - but again, noone in their right mind should overpay for a 37year old with injury history and being unhappy in the last 5 or whatever years (last in GS, BKN, PHX), that is enough of a bad track record, and the lack of leadership is just too glaring at this point in my opinion.

No. Ware has to be in the deal. He has to be.

Now, I'm willing to be reasonable and let Miami keep Jovic if need be as I don't think he will be as good outside of Spo (and he is not that good to begin with) so they can have him. Ware though, that's a deal breaker to me.

Ware/Robinson/Rozier/#20/future unprotected pick

That is the bare minimum I'm willing to accept, and I am not happy about it. Either way, unless the word "Ware" is mentioned, then hang up the phone.

[Frank Lee]

KCP, Cole Anthony, John Konchar plus 4 firsts for KD…..

WHO ‘S WITH ME !!!


(Honestly I believe some here would be happy if not for the backstory)

So basically a bad contract (KCP), and two mediocre bench players on multi year contracts seems like a good value package for KD man? I get the picks are the value difference here, but why take another team's garbage? Just for those picks?

You are aware of sarcasm eh?

You are wound a little tight dude. Too many sleepless night at the old trade machine?

[Bogyo]

Do you prefer Wiggins over Claxton?

They have similar salaries but Claxton is younger and on a slightly better contract. He fills a position of need...and not only for the Suns. Multiple teams are trying to improve at C and Claxton fits the mold for most of those teams. Higher value.

Wiggins is OK but I think he needs to be in a particular environment to succeed because he can lose his motivation easier than other players. And we have Dunn at SF already, so he isn't THAT needed.

Claxton is better. Better fit for the team and his contract gets getter over time as well.

Easily prefer him over Wiggins. Question is how you get Claxton instead.

Better fit for the team AND he has played already for Jordan Ott. They were together several years in Brooklyn.

The C position is on the rise again and we need to have a good starting C. Claxton had a somewhat down year but he is just 26 and has already shown that he is a game changer on defense.

He would give us a much needed defensive C who can switch on the perimeter and can be a rim protector. Not too many Cs can do that.

He is limited on offense. 50-55% FT shooter...at least better than M. Robinson lol. But he is a great lob threat and runs the court like a gazelle for a C.

If we want to play fast on offense and aggressive on defense he is the best C available to execute that style of play.

I think if I think like that I want the Toronto offer. RJ is better than Wiggins, and 4 years younger. Poetl is better than Claxton. If we add Agbaji or Dick and the number 9 pick, then thats a competitive team. RJ gets you 20 points 6+ rebounds and about 5 assists from the SF spot, while Poetl 15/10/1.5 with OK offense and OK defense. You get a contributor with the 9th pick and you are good to go (as much as we'll be). Beal/Book/RJ/Dunn/Poetl can start - or if you get a good PG (as you should) then Beal can come off the bench. Bench of Gillespie/Dick/9thpick/Osho/29th pick/Richards/Martin
You don't get close to this with any of the other packages, maaaybe after 1-2 more offseason trades - but we have some of those coming up nevertheless as Grayson/O'neale situation has to be solved, as we have wing(s) coming back in all KD trades, so they will not have playing time.

[Frank Lee]

Honestly, Jovic is just not that good.

Thought you were told to get out of town by sundown? Better hope the ‘sheriff’ and his boys don’t see ya.

[One_and_Done]

Honestly, Jovic is just not that good.

Thought you were told to get out of town by sundown? Better hope the ‘sheriff’ and his boys don’t see ya.

I'll be on the lookout for internet tough guys.