Question From A Blazer Fan

JordanL · Post #1 » by **JordanL** » Wed Oct 22, 2008 10:47 pm

I'm only half serious, so please don't completely rip into me, but I was wondering about the following trade.

Portland is looking for a veteran. Steve Nash is precisely that. Assuming (this is where it gets hairy) that Pheonix doesn't look strong enough to get to the WCF around early Feb, what would you think about the following trade.

Pheonix:
Travis Outlaw
Steve Blake
Channing Frye
2 unprotected first round picks taken at Pheonix's discretion over the next four drafts

Portland:
Steve Nash

I expect a lot on "No"s, but I curious how close you guys think this trade would be.

MaryvalesFinest · Post #2 » by **MaryvalesFinest** » Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:25 pm

I'm probally one of the few Suns fans to say sign me up for that trade, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

JordanL · Post #3 » by **JordanL** » Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:33 pm

I'm probally one of the few Suns fans to say sign me up for that trade, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

Hmmm... so the Suns could go for several things with a trade like this then. They could go for value, they could go for capspace, or they could go for getting rid of bad contracts.

So which of the following three trades would you like the best?

1 (Value). Outlaw, Blake, Frye, 2 picks for Steve Nash

2 (Capspace). Lafrentz ($13 million expiring), Outlaw, Bayless, 1st, 2nd for Nash, Tucker, Hill

3 (Clean Contracts). Lafrentz, Blake, Diogu, Outlaw for Nash, Diaw

NashtyNas · Post #4 » by **NashtyNas** » Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:38 pm

No. Blake isn't what we need at the PG if Nash leaves. I don't see us trading Nash unless we can get someone like Kirk Hinrich in return. Now, if you offered Outlaw, Bayless / Fernandez, + picks and cap fillers, and maybe took Diaw from us and gave Lafrentz, we might think about it....

JordanL · Post #5 » by **JordanL** » Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:41 pm

sd1306 wrote:No. Blake isn't what we need at the PG if Nash leaves. I don't see us trading Nash unless we can get someone like Kirk Hinrich in return. Now, if you offered Outlaw, Bayless / Fernandez, + picks and cap fillers, and maybe took Diaw from us and gave Lafrentz, we might think about it....

So basically trade number 3 above with Bayless instead of Blake?

Post #6 » by **rsavaj** » Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:57 pm

We're in "win now" mode, so trading Nash doesn't make any sense, but I'd argue that any deal for Nash would have to include Bayless and Rudy coming back, so PHX has a chance at a clean rebuild. Nash/Diaw/a first for Bayless/Fernandez/LaFrentz/Frye.

I really don't think Portland needs to make any moves, they're in fine shape.

JordanL · Post #7 » by **JordanL** » Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:59 pm

Bayless and Fernandez?

Hmmm... well I know we wouldn't do that, but I thought some people might value him like that...

Post #8 » by **lilfishi22** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 1:38 am

I don't want anybody from the Blazer's other than Roy. Maybe Oden, but I don't feel that we're strong enough at the PG position if we make the trade, even if we have Dragic/Blake/Singletary.

But I think Rsavaj is right, Blazers don't need to make any more moves at this moment, if anything they just need Oden to play at a hight level and I think they are set. However I think the Blazers could do with a Barbosa type of player, who can score at will. He'll be a good compliment to Roy. You could argue Rudy and Bayless could be that kind of player, but I think for now Barbosa is the better scorer out of them two.

Also Blazers could go with a bit of cap relief because I see Miles playing more than 10 games this season. Someone will give him contract.

JordanL · Post #9 » by **JordanL** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 1:47 am

Really? No body but Roy?

Blake was seventh in the entire league at assist to turnover ratio last season for players with 100+ assists. Blake can handle the ball better than anyone on the Suns except for Nash...

We're swapping our starting PGs in this trade, except you're getting a ton of young AND expiring talent and a glut of first round picks.

But Despite all that I understand not wanting the trade... Nash is a great player.

Post #10 » by **rsavaj** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 2:25 am

JordanL wrote:Bayless and Fernandez?

Hmmm... well I know we wouldn't do that, but I thought some people might value him like that...

Only reason I'm starting at that high a price is b/c we'll inevitably get Pritchslapped in said trade. If we start high, maybe the ending price that KP negotiates it down to won't be ridiculously low(b/c Kerr and Sarver are idiots)

JordanL · Post #11 » by **JordanL** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 2:29 am

Oh...

Well... I'm proposing the trade and I'm no Pritchard, that's for sure.

But I understand the sentiment.

I actually thought it was something of a turn of play that I included two middle-late first round picks to match the ones we bought from Pheonix...

Post #12 » by **lilfishi22** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 3:22 am

JordanL wrote:Really? No body but Roy?

Blake was seventh in the entire league at assist to turnover ratio last season for players with 100+ assists. Blake can handle the ball better than anyone on the Suns except for Nash...

We're swapping our starting PGs in this trade, except you're getting a ton of young AND expiring talent and a glut of first round picks.

But Despite all that I understand not wanting the trade... Nash is a great player.

It's not that I don't want anybody other than Roy. I'd love to have guys like Outlaw or Rudy or Bayless on my team. But If we deal Nash, it'll inevitably be a downgrade in the most important position in basketball. I understand that having young talented guys on our team is always a plus, but at this point, I think we need Nash more than we need young talent.

At this point, if you don't mind me saying, Blazers are not a championship-calibre team and may only just make playoffs in the wild wild west, so I think in the long-run you guys will be better off keeping your young guys and draft picks rather than dealing for Nash now. Nash is obvsiously a better player than Kidd right now, but if this trade was to go through, you guys would look like Dallas now. They traded away an excellent PG in Harris for an aging Kidd, and at this point it's just not something you guys wanna do since you're not a postion to compete for the title just yet anyway. If you keep your young guys, your team will definitely be a title contender every year in a season or two.

Never Fear 33 Is Here · Post #13 » by **Never Fear 33 Is Here** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 6:29 am

rsavaj wrote:We're in "win now" mode, so trading Nash doesn't make any sense, but I'd argue that any deal for Nash would have to include Bayless and Rudy coming back, so PHX has a chance at a clean rebuild. Nash/Diaw/a first for Bayless/Fernandez/LaFrentz/Frye.

I really don't think Portland needs to make any moves, they're in fine shape.

Which is why the OP said the statement about Feb.

But yeah, at the end of the day IMO Bayless would have to be included.

Also, I agree with lilfish (here fishy, fishy, fishy) you guys don't need an aging vet right now. You guys IMO aren't going to win this year or even next year, but keep your nucleus together and you guys have a scary good team in the next few. Especially if Oden and Roy stay healthy.

Post #14 » by **lilfishi22** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 8:37 am

Actually, I would go as far as to say, any trades that doesn't upgrade us this season is not worth it. Unless we're like so far out of the playoffs even if we win every game after the trade deadline and still won't get in, then I'd make a trade.

JordanL · Post #15 » by **JordanL** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 4:13 pm

To be clear, I don't think Portland needs this trade in the sense that it will be downhill form here if we don't.

But the one thing Portland truly lacks is veteran insight and a fearlessly steady hand at PG. I proposed this trade at the deadline because I feel like it gives Portland a legit shot at a ring this season, though not likely, and it doesn't hugely impact our plans for the future while it also gives Pheonix the chance to rebuild and retool a bit without falling to the bottom of the league.

Yeah, they'd be low draft picks, but you get to keep your draft picks as well, giving Pheonix the ability to trade up in the draft or draft two first rounders in two different years. Not to mention that Bayless/Outlaw/Frye aren't exactly chopped liver themselves.

But yeah, I wasn't proposing this trade cause Portland is desperate or because I thought Pheonix would be a sucker... I was trying to build a trade that worked for both teams.

Post #16 » by **lilfishi22** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 4:10 am

^ If Phoenix wasn't competing we'd make the trade, but Nash is such a big part of our team you'd have to make a trade that makes up for Nash's 50-47-90 shooting, his 11.1apg and 18ppg. I think for your team to get better you need a veteran like Bobby Jackson, someone who gives you veteran leadership and good ball-handling but isn't taking away touches from Roy. I'd try and do a deal for Jackson, maybe give the Kings a pick or two since they're rebuilding anyway.

Blazers aren't competing this season and making a trade for a big name would be a mistake. In a season's time your guys will mature and develop to the point where you probably won't need to trade for a veteran.