Game 12: Phoenix(8-3)@Utah(6-4)

[harshey1388]

blew it like we ALL said we shouldnt. oh well but this is kinda random and i havent followed it on more, i just saw it on my cousins facebook status, a quote and article from ESPN about shaq willing to go back to the lakers in 2010??!?!?! sounds funny and very off but def. something shaq would say anyone know anymore?!?!

[BurningHeart]

Jazz fan here. I have to say, no offense but Dragic sucks. I was looking forward to seeing this guy play because I thought he had a future. And after about 3 minutes I wanted to see him play because he made the Jazz a much much better team. He doesn't belong anywhere near the floor, and definitely not on a team that is actually competetive.

And I know how the Jazz get calls about home, but you won't ever win a game when you get outrebounded by 21. That is 21 more possesions the Jazz had.

No offense taken, we're none too impressed with Dragic either.

On the other hand, it seems as though Porter is just as stubborn as D'Antoni was in his own way, except D'Antoni could manage his lockerroom, something that Porter hasn't been able to do so far.

I haven't heard anything about locker room issues?

[The Diesel]

Jalen Rose wrote a great column for ESPN.com in which he said Amare needs to be the main part of the offense.

All of us agree with that, but Porter, for some reason, keeps running the offense through Shaq and it cost the Suns the game.

The Suns should have rested Shaq and started Boris or Lopez.

Oh, and one more thing...STOP POSTING UP SHAQ ON THE RIGHT BLOCK.

[The Diesel]

I haven't heard anything about locker room issues?

Nash and Bell have made it known publicly that they feel the team should run more, and Amare was very frustrated with his lack of touches after the loss to Houston.


Even D'Antoni's critics can't deny that the man was a genius offensively and I get sick of people saying his style of basketball can't win a Championship when he got EXTREMELY unlucky each year.

Joe Johnson injury

Amare injury

Suspensions

Grant Hill injury/Tim Duncan 3 pointer.

I will always believe the Suns would have won the Championship in 2006 and 2007 if not for Amare's injury and the suspensions.

[lilfishi22]

As of right now, I think D'Antoni would've been a much better coach even with Shaq and Lopez on our team. I understand our goal isn't to win in regular but in the playoffs but it's useless if we can't even get there. Sure D'Antoni would've only played Dragic during garbage time and would only be "forced" to play Lopez because Shaq can't handle a full game.

But at least the man clearly knew who is our main offensive guy, that's Amare. We got outplayed and probably out coached by Pops in the last playoffs, but towards the end of the regular season, there were definite signs that with a proper training camp, D'Antoni would've probably integrated Shaq into our offense as the 3rd or 4th scoring option. Porter right now has no idea who can get it done on a nightly basis. He thinks because Shaq had those few nice games, he can bring it every night and that's just not the case.

The difference in philosophy between Nash and Porter does not help either. This is a quote from Nash tonight:

"We don't really run that well,'' Nash said. "They're a good running team at home and we're not really a running team at the moment.''

While there's a totally contrasting comment made by Porter:

"We just didn't show a lot of poise during that stretch,'' Phoenix coach Terry Porter said. "We really seemed to be in a hurry.''

In regards to tonight's game, I thought some of the fouls called against us were pretty poor, but the Jazz got called a few crappy fouls too so it wasn't a huge factor. The reason we lost today was because of Porter, Shaq and lack of hustle. 2-11fg and 1reb in 32min is not going to get it done. If Shaq is heading towards a 2-11 night, then we should have shifted our offensive focus on somebody else a long time ago. I thought Nash played half decent tonight despite a few bad TO's but was in foul trouble. Saw a few nice PnR's with Amare, which was good to see. But I don't think it was a play called by Porter but rather something Nash and Amare did because they knew it's their best weapon.

The only thing that is keeping our team from total collapse is that Nash isn't the type of guy to feud with coaches and it seems right now he's just tolerating the coach. Long story short, I think if Porter can't figure out how to run our offense and motivate our guys, then we need to shake up the roster a little.

[aznkillabeezZz]

Daantoni's run and gun offense would've beat the Injury plagued Jazz ... I don't think Daantoni did bad last season either with newly acquired Shaq. They were just beat in the playoffs by a better team. Amare's weight loss seems to make him less strong and explosive. The halfcourt offense doesn't really fit nash either. However the additions of dragic and fropez are very good

[|||-Abaddon-|||]

When Shaq is rolling he is the most effective player at scoring the basketball and drawing fouls, in the league period.

It doesnt hurt to try and develope Shaq as a main offensive weapon since it lead to so many opps. His kicks out of the double teams were astounding, and only lead to great and easy baskets.

But I really think what can make this team dangerous is our variety. Our strength in shooting and our main resouce at the PF spot.

If we can establish Shaq, we open up our game: The shooters just have to make their shots so that the floor is spaced.

Keep running constant/fluid plays for Amare - primarily the PnR where he is most effective.

This team also needs to show the commitment to defense and show the prowness game in and game out. (Great teams like the Celtics and Pistons play REALLY agressive defense in close situations late in the 3rd quarter and most of the 4th quarter, which just goes to show, you dont need to play all out defense for a full 48 minutes, just only went it counts, when games are decided -- the 4th)

Finally, I really believe we should trade a few pieces to aquire a dribble penetrator who can create his own shot and finish at the rim. Perhaps aquiring some additional veteran defenders/shooters for this team.

[rsavaj]

As of right now, I think D'Antoni would've been a much better coach even with Shaq and Lopez on our team. I understand our goal isn't to win in regular but in the playoffs but it's useless if we can't even get there.

AGREED. We were 15-5 in our last 20 games w/ Shaq...that record was only behind Boston's during the same period

But at least the man clearly knew who is our main offensive guy, that's Amare. We got outplayed and probably out coached by Pops in the last playoffs, but towards the end of the regular season, there were definite signs that with a proper training camp, D'Antoni would've probably integrated Shaq into our offense as the 3rd or 4th scoring option. Porter right now has no idea who can get it done on a nightly basis. He thinks because Shaq had those few nice games, he can bring it every night and that's just not the case.

The difference in philosophy between Nash and Porter does not help either. This is a quote from Nash tonight:

"We don't really run that well,'' Nash said. "They're a good running team at home and we're not really a running team at the moment.''

While there's a totally contrasting comment made by Porter:

"We just didn't show a lot of poise during that stretch,'' Phoenix coach Terry Porter said. "We really seemed to be in a hurry.''

In regards to tonight's game, I thought some of the fouls called against us were pretty poor, but the Jazz got called a few crappy fouls too so it wasn't a huge factor. The reason we lost today was because of Porter, Shaq and lack of hustle. 2-11fg and 1reb in 32min is not going to get it done. If Shaq is heading towards a 2-11 night, then we should have shifted our offensive focus on somebody else a long time ago. I thought Nash played half decent tonight despite a few bad TO's but was in foul trouble. Saw a few nice PnR's with Amare, which was good to see. But I don't think it was a play called by Porter but rather something Nash and Amare did because they knew it's their best weapon.

The only thing that is keeping our team from total collapse is that Nash isn't the type of guy to feud with coaches and it seems right now he's just tolerating the coach. Long story short, I think if Porter can't figure out how to run our offense and motivate our guys, then we need to shake up the roster a little.

Again, +1 to everything. I know Porter's not to blame for missing wide open shots, but the more and more I hear Nash/Porter directly contradicting each other, the more it becomes apparent that if this disconnect goes on, we're going to struggle to MAKE the playoffs/get bounced in the first round.

[rsavaj]

Terrible performance.

Amare wouldn't know how to box out if his paycheck was riding on it

I've said it once and I'll say it again, we need someone who can handle the ball and break down a defender one on one, ie Ginobili, JHoward, MEllis, Carter...SOMEONE...

It used to be Barbosa

I know quoting oneself is bad form, but what about JERRY STACKHOUSE?

[Frank Lee]

We have little ability to add anyone w/o parting with a so-called major piece. ie. Barnes, Barbo, Bell, Hill, even Nash...I reckon both Diaw and Shaq are safe do to lack of interest elsewhere... Amare is the lone cornerstone. I do not think a little roster tweek will acomplish much. The past proves if additional money for salary is needed, we will look the other way and spin spin spin. I figure we will stand pat unless serious squawking goes on. Our Front Orfice appears content with the nominal playoff appearence if only to get a few more bucks via the turnstyles.


When the Fit hits the Shan.... it should be total rebuild and tank the season. Atleast we have a draft pick this yr....for now.

[HootieRules]

Only problem I have with Porter is the insistence on playing Dragic night in and night out but is this really Porter's fault? A number of us were clamoring for a veteran point guard in the offseason and the two-rookie solution is still baffling. The Strawberry trade still makes ZERO sense because the guy could defend and had at least a little bit of experience. But I guess $ will always reign supreme over personnel...

Look, complain all you want about the offense running through Shaq but this is going to pay off big time later in the season. Guys will figure out where to get Shaq the ball and Shaq will figure out who and where to kick it out to. If you don't want Shaq getting touches, why in the hell did we trade for him in the first place? As much as Nash is bitching about not running enough, this is not a running team. Especially with LB out. We don't have the shooters or the slashers anymore and we have 2 big guys who can take over on a nightly basis. It's getting to the point where Nash needs to just shut the hell up and try and buy into what Porter is doing.

[rsavaj]

Only problem I have with Porter is the insistence on playing Dragic night in and night out but is this really Porter's fault? A number of us were clamoring for a veteran point guard in the offseason and the two-rookie solution is still baffling. The Strawberry trade still makes ZERO sense because the guy could defend and had at least a little bit of experience. But I guess $ will always reign supreme over personnel...

Look, complain all you want about the offense running through Shaq but this is going to pay off big time later in the season. Guys will figure out where to get Shaq the ball and Shaq will figure out who and where to kick it out to. If you don't want Shaq getting touches, why in the hell did we trade for him in the first place? As much as Nash is bitching about not running enough, this is not a running team. Especially with LB out. We don't have the shooters or the slashers anymore and we have 2 big guys who can take over on a nightly basis. It's getting to the point where Nash needs to just shut the hell up and try and buy into what Porter is doing.

This isn't a running team? Nash(shooter), Raja Bell(shooter), Grant Hill(slasher), Matt Barnes(slasher), Boris Diaw(shooter), Amare Stoudemire(both), Leandro Barbosa(both), and hell, even Goran Dragic(useless) who said he loves to "run the break" disagree with you.

[psyclone1982]

Only problem I have with Porter is the insistence on playing Dragic night in and night out but is this really Porter's fault? A number of us were clamoring for a veteran point guard in the offseason and the two-rookie solution is still baffling. The Strawberry trade still makes ZERO sense because the guy could defend and had at least a little bit of experience. But I guess $ will always reign supreme over personnel...

Look, complain all you want about the offense running through Shaq but this is going to pay off big time later in the season. Guys will figure out where to get Shaq the ball and Shaq will figure out who and where to kick it out to. If you don't want Shaq getting touches, why in the hell did we trade for him in the first place? As much as Nash is bitching about not running enough, this is not a running team. Especially with LB out. We don't have the shooters or the slashers anymore and we have 2 big guys who can take over on a nightly basis. It's getting to the point where Nash needs to just shut the hell up and try and buy into what Porter is doing.

This isn't a running team? Nash(shooter), Raja Bell(shooter), Grant Hill(slasher), Matt Barnes(slasher), Boris Diaw(shooter), Amare Stoudemire(both), Leandro Barbosa(both), and hell, even Goran Dragic(useless) who said he loves to "run the break" disagree with you.

It's more that this isn't a running team anymore, hence the need for a trade.

[HootieRules]

This isn't a running team? Nash(shooter), Raja Bell(shooter), Grant Hill(slasher), Matt Barnes(slasher), Boris Diaw(shooter), Amare Stoudemire(both), Leandro Barbosa(both), and hell, even Goran Dragic(useless) who said he loves to "run the break" disagree with you.

You could legitimately argue Raja, Hill, Diaw and Stoudemire are all better suited in the half court game. LB can play in the halfcourt because he can shoot and break down people off the dribble. Barnes can play in the half court too. Hell, even Nash is a suitable halfcourt guy because he is such a damn good shooter. It's not like we have guys that can only play if we are running and gunning.

So why exactly do we have this infatuation with running? We ran in the past because we were undersized and some teams were forced to match up with us. Some teams, not all teams. When we matched up against the good teams they just slowed the pace down by killing us in the halfcourt because we were undersized. We're not undersized anymore. We actually outsize pretty much every team in the league now with Shaq.

Our issues aren't style-related. Our problems are we are getting killed by opposing teams' guards getting in the lane and either scoring or forcing our defense to collapse and allowing teams to make 3s. This is going to be the same whether we are running or not because we literally have 1 guard right now that can defend anyone in Raja. Nash, LB and Dragic are all attrocious defenders. Getting into a halfcourt game will benefit us in the long run because we can get our defense set and we can kill teams in the paint offensively and get them into foul trouble with Amare and Shaq. But we have to stick with it. Saying we aren't running enough isn't solving anything and is basically a cop-out. Utah didn't outrun us last night as Nash claims, they killed us with guys like CJ Miles because we have no one to defend them. Houston killed us with Alston and especially Brooks. Chicago killed us with Rose. See a trend here? We don't have a perimeter defender. I still think a trade is coming eventually where LB is going out and we get another perimeter defender that can handle the ball to spell Nash and then we'll be fine. Until then, mainly Nash needs to suck it up and watch his assists go down a little bit because we will be much better off in the long run as a result.

[The Diesel]

But wasn't Porter brought in to improve the defense? If Kerr was so concerned about the defense, he should have just hired Tom Thibadeau.

When Kurt Thomas was in Phoenix, the team was a good defensive team. Porter's Milwaukee Bucks teams were terrible defensively and nobody in the starting line-up other than Raja is a great defender.

Nash, Shaq, and Amare are all horrible defenders.

I'm sorry, but last night's loss was totally on Porter's coaching. Going away from Amare after his 15 point 1st quarter was completely idiotic.

D'Antoni took so much criticism over the team's bad defense, yet they were a good defensive team with Kurt Thomas.

I really wish Kerr and D'Antoni could have worked things out.

[TASTIC]

rsavaj, I'd love Stackhouse here...another tough guy who can draw fouls...Don't see what we can offer them though.

FYI - I think Bass, Terry and Stack would be PERFECT off the bench with Hill and Lopez...

[walkingart]

We have lost 3 of 4 on back to backs (two on the back end, and one when we sat Shaq against Chicago); didn't we lose something like 8 games on the back end of 13 last season (with two back 2 backs being won on doubleheaders against the Clippers and Kings). Mike D did no better last season, why would he do better now?

[b-ball forever]

LMFAO

You guys who want Stackhouse clearly haven't watched a single Mavs game over the past couple years

Just LMFAO


I mean Barbs and Dragic already make yall panic, Stack would make u drop dead!