Our Bottom 5-6

[Miklo]

Time to take a look at Scrubville.

We considered ourselves very fortunate to finally have a coach step in who would play more than a 7-8 man rotation, arguably D'Antoni's biggest downside aside from defense. Has it happened though? I've been very disappointed with the allocation of playing time overall. There have been stretches where we've given certain guys, Dragic, Singletary, ample time, but overall I feel we have not given these guys a chance to blossom. I know Tragic has been really ineffective and I know RoLo is a foul machine but as with D'Antoni, 12 minutes in one game and a DNP in the next doesn't give a player a chance to show themselves and puts too much pressure on them for the time they do play. So how bout these guys?

Robin Lopez
I am very frustrated here. I saw RoLo getting a consistent 12mpg under Porter, and I predicted he was gonna help out right away and develop quite well under Shaq. As of now if Shaq goes down to injury or when his contract is up we have a huge (in both senses of the word) gap to fill. We need a defensive big, and I really thought RoLo would be ready to step in to at least begin to fill that role. Any night he doesn't play is a night that really doesn't make sense. We have been a horrible team at developing rookies and I thought Porter would be better.

Goran Dragic
As bad as he has been, look at his game over in Europe. Its been said here that European players take a long time to transfer into an NBA game (Udrih), and how do we know he won't be different? Here I understand more than RoLo, we can't afford to have a low performing player filling in for Nash, but I'm saying with him that if we WERE to give him consistent minutes or even 8 minutes every game, we might even have a Nash replacement on our hands in a couple seasons.

Lou Amundson
Mr. Hustle. He is our Bo Outlaw, and he needs to be in for a few minutes every time a team is on a scoring run against us. I don't like giving him random spot minutes, we need to use him as a weapon. He is a minimal overall contributor but a HUGE bargain and a piece every team should have. He's the type that I don't think needs a certain amount of minutes per game cause its all about his energy and effort.

Alando Tucker
Really stupidly handled by this club. He explodes in the DLeague, he explodes in the Summer League and while this says nothing, give the guy TEN MINUTES of playing time to see if he can run with the team and if he has the necessary level of awareness. I think its ridiculous that he hasn't played a second this season, can it really hurt that bad to play him in the 4th of a game we are winning/losing by a big margin?

Jared Dudley
This guy sounds like another hustle guy, seemingly could be redundant with Amundson so I don't know how he should or how I even care about him fitting in.

Dee Brown
We've discussed him enough recently. He's not the long term answer. Maybe, just maybe he can develop a bit but we are all skeptical about his playmaking abilities.

So, what does everyone think about these guys and the overall bench strategy overall?

[MaryvalesFinest]

Robin Lopez-Bust, I knew he was going to be one even before the Suns drafted him but unfortunately fans can't vote on who they want drafted, taking him over players like Speights, Hill, Jordan, Mcgee, Hibbert, etc is going to come back and bite the Suns because they could have got a solid contributor.

Goran Dragic-Bust, Kerr doesn't have a great eye on evauluating talent. If they drafted him with there own pick in the second round and gave him the vets minimum that would be fine but spending so much on a second round pick, also Kerr had him rated as the second best pg in the draft behind Rose which is insane, over guys like DJ Augustin, George Hill, Mario Chalmers, etc. You mention Beno Udrih but when he came into the league at least he could produce.

Lou Amundson-This guy is getting way to many minutes in the middle of games, as much as I love his attitude and energy this guy should be a bench and practice player nothing more like Sean Marks was, his playing time should only come at the end of games if the Suns are blowing out the opposing team. The Suns should look at signing a real backup for Amare.

Alando Tucker-I agree this guy should be getting some playing time, he was great player in college and I know some college greats games don't translate to the NBA but the guy should at least have a chance to play, it's been almost two years and he only played in 6 NBA games, if he was with almost any other club he could probally be getting 10 points per game and be a solid contributor. I feel bad for the guy, players like Amundson get playing time over him the Suns should look to trade him if they don't want to play him.

Dee Brown-This guy didn't show much to the Jazz or Wiz, he's basically just a player the Suns had to sign. They should give a younger undrafted rookie a chance to break out.

The conclusion is the Suns management arn't good talent evaluators, they never have been either even since the Colangelo trades. Drafting Amare was basically the only good move they made and they basically were forced to because they needed a big at the time. I don't count Nash because they let him get away and the Mavs could have easily paid him and he never would have been a Sun. People blame Kerr but part of it is David Griffin the assistant GM.

[MaryvalesFinest]

I'm not just basing it off this game but the guy can't shoot, has trouble getting rebounds and lets opposing players get offensive rebounds, etc. Sure he can block some shots but look at the other five or so players drafted after him, Speights, Hibbert, Koufous, Mcgee and Hickson, all of them are contributing to there teams and look the few players before him like Randolph, Rush, Thompson, etc all contributing also.

Seems Lopez is the worse player out of all of them, He's not a shooter and basically just can get garbage buckets and he was a poor rebounder in the small pac-10. When Kerr drafted him he said he was the most "NBA ready" player within that group, it sure doesn't look like it even with the limited playing time he's getting. Not only that but the guys soft as charmin for a 7 footer, when he see's no one in the lane he wants to dunk with authority but when players are around the basket he just tries to tip it in. Kerr said he was a great defender but his defensive has just been average. Can this guy be the Suns starting center in the future? or even a backup center? It doesn't look that way...

Anyway do you think Lopez is a bust or not? Tell us here...

[TASTIC]

Could you not have put this in the thread about our bottom 5-6 guys? This is EXACTLY what annoys me when you're clearly stretching a topic already being discussed just to start a new thread...

[MaryvalesFinest]

Oh sorry.

[TASTIC]

Don't worry - fixed. Have merged them now

[lilfishi22]

Fropez-Potential. I don't think he's a bust yet. I believe he can contribute because he looks like he has the work ethic and he had the right defensive mindset. He just needs consistent minutes to help him ease into the NBA pace. His foul troubles are an issue, but that's because he hasn't gotten used to the NBA pace yet.

Tragic-Bust. Talent-wise, I think he has potential, but his mentalilty is a big issue. He too timid and right now he just doesn't understand the game. It's such a big gamble to force a Euro rookie to run an NBA team in his first year here, we took that gamble and so far we've lost. I don't see him being more than a journeyman and at best a 7th-8th man for a championship team.

Amundson-Bargain. Hustle, Hustle, Hustle. He does the little things even though it doesn't show on the stat sheet. He's an absolute bargain for his efficient production.

Tucker-Potential. This guy needs minutes, he was a great player in college and should bring some of that college experience over, but has not been given enough PT thus far.

Dudley - Potential. Another hustle guy, but so far hasn't been given the minutes nor is it likely he'll be given consistent minutes considering we already have Amundson. Could be a nice rotation player for other teams.

Brown - N/A

[rsavaj]

I find it hilarious how the FO tried to convince everyone that Robin was the better of the two brothers.

They really have no shame, do they?

[SUNSARETHEBEST]

I find it hilarious how the FO tried to convince everyone that Robin was the better of the two brothers.

They really have no shame, do they?

Maybe during Christmas break Robin can shave his head and trade places with his brother, no one can probally tell the difference? We can only wish

[scootfu602]

I think RoLo still has some potential to be a contibuter. To call him a Bust is a bit of a strtch IMO, as I don't know that we expected too much outta him in the first place.

Goran is clearly overrated at this point, maybe he will turn it around, but it likely will not be for another couple of years.

Alando is someone that I have always wanted to see get more PT. I just don't see how a player can just tear up the D-league and get NO time at this level. It gets frustrating because he was really rockin the house in D-league, wouldn't be surprised to see him go over seas.

[b-ball forever]

Tucker was lookin real good earlier, he looked like he really improved his jumper and was playing hard. If it wasn't for the injury he'd prolly be seeing spot mins on the court.

I'm suprised Dudley has almost seen ZERO playtime since we got him. Admunsun is a PF/C, while Dudley's a SF/PF, so he shoudn't be totally redundant.
According to what Cats fans were saying he's supposed to be a very servicable backup with nice all-around play... With Boris gone I expected him to fill in some of those mins.

Dragic should go to the D-League to work on his game now that we have Dee Brown.

[TASTIC]

Yeah I dont get the lack of PT for Dudley either. We need a scrapper type who puts the team first.

Anyone surprised with the lack of time/faith Porter is giving to Barbosa?

[Mr. Sun]

Robin Lopez-Bust, I knew he was going to be one even before the Suns drafted him but unfortunately fans can't vote on who they want drafted, taking him over players like Speights, Hill, Jordan, Mcgee, Hibbert, etc is going to come back and bite the Suns because they could have got a solid contributor.

Uh, how is he a bust? What little mins he got with TD he never gave up free baskets like The Shack.

[Miklo]

Here's my "Robin Lopez Isn't a Bust" post.

He's played 21 games in his career, with 11mpg. I don't think people stress enough that when you're a rookie coming into the pros and you come into a game and know you have 5-10 minutes, that's a LOT of pressure. If I know I need to prove myself in 5 minutes I'm either gonna get too nervous to handle the ball or I'm gonna jack up some bad shots with hopes of scoring to get brownie points.

Next, his Stats per 48 are:
14pts, 7rebs, 3blks.
He's shooting 57% for all who say he's shooting "horribly".

He's defensive minded and he's tall, two things you can't teach. He's proven in college that he can rebound the ball and play good post D. I see him becoming an 8ppg, 10rpg, 1.5bpg player before too long.

And he has a fro.

[Mr. Sun]

^^^ I have no doubt if Robin was given serious mins on TD he would had scored 6 points less than with Shaq constantly guarding him. TD isn't exactly a low post guy who can burn Shaq outside the paint. We wouldn't need Robin to score since we have J-Rich to make up for the lost points from Shaq.

So I view our loss as a fundamental screw-up on TP's part.

[Phoenix1977]

Just so you guys are aware...Dragic was ALL David Griffin's idea. He sold the rest of the FO on Goran, so this one is on him. Just keep that in mind when you bash Kerr about drafting him.

[Phoenix Suns]

Do the Suns have a backup plan if the Dragic experiment fails? Like drafting a pg in the 2009 draft or trading for a solid one down the road?

[Frank Lee]

Just so you guys are aware...Dragic was ALL David Griffin's idea. He sold the rest of the FO on Goran, so this one is on him. Just keep that in mind when you bash Kerr about drafting him.

and then Griffin called up San Antonio and bent over... and then Griffin tried to buy out the euro squad....then Griffin signed Dragic... and then he told Sarver and Kerr what he did....

this was a stinker from the get go.

I know about the '**** doesn't roll up hill' theory... but sometimes (and here in this player acquisition world, everytime) the Boss is accountable.

These guys still have not shown much of anything when dealing with the draft, trades with GMs, and signings with agents to indicate the are much more than a bungling inexperienced front office.

Kerr'veball gets no pass in the Dragic sweepstakes.... the back up pg situation should have already been resolved. Jeezus C, if there is ONE thing that would indicate how reactionary and myopic these guys are, it is that.

[Phoenix1977]

There's no doubt that Kerr has to sign off on it, but if you knew how highly regarded that Griffin is in the office, you'd know he can be very persuasive and ultimately he convinced everyone he was right. Yes, Kerr has final say, but Griffin pushed this one along.