When will someone smack some sense into Sun Tzu?

[Moochiefried]

Marbury was already putting up 20-8 under Frank Johnson was was a top PG in the league. I'm sure if he got the chance to play SSOL his stats would increase and he would have won at least one MVP. There's no reason why his stats wouldn't be better than Nash, maybe the assist numbers would be the same but Marbury was a better scorer and would get more steals, rebounds and blocks

What you really don't really is that being the MVP isn't about putting up some inflated stats, it's about being the most valuable to your team, and obviously Marbury was not doing that because playing 34 games for the SSOL Suns under D'antoni in 2003-04 Marbury led the team to a 12 wins and 22 losses record...do those numbers scream MVP to you? You are putting way to much weight on his individual statistics and not enough on the teams.

PS in Nash's first 34 games the suns were 30 and 4

[MaryvalesFinest]

Marbury was already putting up 20-8 under Frank Johnson was was a top PG in the league. I'm sure if he got the chance to play SSOL his stats would increase and he would have won at least one MVP. There's no reason why his stats wouldn't be better than Nash, maybe the assist numbers would be the same but Marbury was a better scorer and would get more steals, rebounds and blocks

What you really don't really is that being the MVP isn't about putting up some inflated stats, it's about being the most valuable to your team, and obviously Marbury was not doing that because playing 34 games for the SSOL Suns under D'antoni in 2003-04 Marbury led the team to a 12 wins and 22 losses record...do those numbers scream MVP to you? You are putting way to much weight on his individual statistics and not enough on the teams.

PS in Nash's first 34 games the suns were 30 and 4

If Marbury had the same players at the same levels the record would probally have been better, remember Amare didn't break out yet and they added Q-Rich a year later.

[RunDogGun]

I can't believe that a thread about how stupid Amare is, turned into an even dumber thread of Marbury being better than Steve.

Go to basketball reference and check out the stats. Steve is way more efficient. 49% fg, 43% threes, and 90% ft for a career. How in all that is holy could someone argue against that with a 43%, 33%, 78%? This isn't poker, you can't bluff us. It isn't even a contest. That is a 6%, 10%, 12% difference, for a career! That is like trying to tell us that three tens and two eights are better that three queens and two nines. Sorry, but it doesn't work.

Sure Marbury scored more points, but Nash took less shots to make his points, meaning if he was to take the same amount of shots, he could have scored more easily. That is the problem with people that don't know the game of basketball. They don't know how to read the stats.

Also you have to take into consideration that Nash started his career behind both KJ and Kidd, where Marbury went to Minny and could easily start on that cruddy team. Once Nash was consistently starting his numbers reflected it.

In the so-called year in question, Marbury took 17.8 shots a game and made only 7.7. Nash, the year before SSOL, took 10.8 and made 5.1. Nash made players better because he was a better teammate, Marbury only cared about stats. And the block shot comment for a career, they both avg 0.1. By the way, Nash out rebounds Starbury for a career.

The opinions of the feeble minded are easily destroyed by cold hard facts.

Back on topic, did someone slap some sense into Amare yet? "His best year yet", according to his tweet. I hope to god that he will follow through with his word. Just once would be nice.

Now I don't hate Amare, but I can't stand all the talk, and the half attempt. Either follow your talk up, or just shut up and play.

[lilfishi22]

Amare is all talk. His tweets are just another way to boost his already inflated ego. Real fans knows what's up, he's just gonna come into camp and start inventing new ways to dunk it on people or start jacking 3's again like he did two off-season's ago.

But I'd love it if he proves me wrong, like he did many times before by coming back from MF surgery and making all-star. And I would be the first person say I was wrong and congratulate him if he starts to play D.

[JohnVancouver]

One way we can help that happen is to keep contacting him - facebook, Twitter - just encourage the guy without hurting his feellings or ... making him defensive about his .. defense.

Stat's a good guy - I think he just is a little thin-skinned about the topic, for whatever reason. So more encouraging messages might work.

I sent him one such at his facebook page and got a nice answer back, that he was working on it and we'd see a difference. I coucehd my message in - OK, you are the man now. Shaq's gone, the team's full of young guy's, they need you to show some muscle and defense. I't s your year etc.


I think we have to remember that here's a guy who made it - at a high level, too - on nothing much besides natural ability and desire. Then he went to a team where defense was not much of an emphasis.
So, yeah - big change for the guy.

[MaryvalesFinest]

I can't believe that a thread about how stupid Amare is, turned into an even dumber thread of Marbury being better than Steve.

Go to basketball reference and check out the stats. Steve is way more efficient. 49% fg, 43% threes, and 90% ft for a career. How in all that is holy could someone argue against that with a 43%, 33%, 78%? This isn't poker, you can't bluff us. It isn't even a contest. That is a 6%, 10%, 12% difference, for a career! That is like trying to tell us that three tens and two eights are better that three queens and two nines. Sorry, but it doesn't work.

Sure Marbury scored more points, but Nash took less shots to make his points, meaning if he was to take the same amount of shots, he could have scored more easily. That is the problem with people that don't know the game of basketball. They don't know how to read the stats.

Also you have to take into consideration that Nash started his career behind both KJ and Kidd, where Marbury went to Minny and could easily start on that cruddy team. Once Nash was consistently starting his numbers reflected it.

In the so-called year in question, Marbury took 17.8 shots a game and made only 7.7. Nash, the year before SSOL, took 10.8 and made 5.1. Nash made players better because he was a better teammate, Marbury only cared about stats. And the block shot comment for a career, they both avg 0.1. By the way, Nash out rebounds Starbury for a career.

The opinions of the feeble minded are easily destroyed by cold hard facts.

Back on topic, did someone slap some sense into Amare yet? "His best year yet", according to his tweet. I hope to god that he will follow through with his word. Just once would be nice.

Now I don't hate Amare, but I can't stand all the talk, and the half attempt. Either follow your talk up, or just shut up and play.

It doesn't just have to do with percentages, Marbury had swagger which is something Nash doesn't have. If Marbury was on the Suns with the same cast Nash had the Suns would have at least won one championship.

[SunsWinSunsWin]

I love Marbury and will defend him for life but this is just another idiotic post by Maryvale.

[realsunsfan]

If "swagger" is such a big component in winning a championship for you, and marbury has so much of it, why hasn't he won a championship??? Why is that the teams he goes to continue to get worse with his presence ?

[MaryvalesFinest]

I love Marbury and will defend him for life but this is just another idiotic post by Maryvale.

Nice to know Nash fans resort to name calling.

[MaryvalesFinest]

If "swagger" is such a big component in winning a championship for you, and marbury has so much of it, why hasn't he won a championship??? Why is that the teams he goes to continue to get worse with his presence ?

That was just an example, swagger helps though. Add that along with stats, and the system.

[grumpysaddle]

hahahhahaha swagger swagger swagger swagger.

how does "swagger" make someone a more skilled player than someone else? Marbury makes no one else around him any better. just stop already.

[garrick]

I don't think Marbury played SSOL style when Mike was coach. If I recall correctly it was when Nash joined the Suns that the SSOL offense started because Nash was a perfect fit.
Marbury is kind of like Shaq in that he needs the ball in order to be effective so that killed the flow of the offense which was why he was traded to NY.

[RunDogGun]

hahahhahaha swagger swagger swagger swagger.

how does "swagger" make someone a more skilled player than someone else? Marbury makes no one else around him any better. just stop already.

Turns out swagger was just really the munchies.

http://basketball.realgm.com/src_wireta ... on_camera/

[Gorilla Warfare]

MaryvalesFinest doesn't like Steve Nash so we could be talking about something like the NFL and he will still say something stupid like "I agree, Larry Fitzgerald is the best player in the NFL, but Steve Nash sucks, and that is what really matters". He is a argument starter and that's all he has been since he joined the forum.

To actually get back to what this topic was really all about, now that Shaq is gone Amare has the biggest ego in Arizona sports. I know on a personal level that he is a jerk too. The few times that I got to talk to Steve on the other hand he was extremely kind, so from what we have all heard and what I have actually seen in person, Steve's ego doesn't even come close to Amare's. Hell, Mike Tyson is nicer then Amare. And has less of an ego, wherever Amare goes he feel he runs the place.

[MaryvalesFinest]

MaryvalesFinest doesn't like Steve Nash so we could be talking about something like the NFL and he will still say something stupid like "I agree, Larry Fitzgerald is the best player in the NFL, but Steve Nash sucks, and that is what really matters". He is a argument starter and that's all he has been since he joined the forum.

To actually get back to what this topic was really all about, now that Shaq is gone Amare has the biggest ego in Arizona sports. I know on a personal level that he is a jerk too. The few times that I got to talk to Steve on the other hand he was extremely kind, so from what we have all heard and what I have actually seen in person, Steve's ego doesn't even come close to Amare's. Hell, Mike Tyson is nicer then Amare. And has less of an ego, wherever Amare goes he feel he runs the place.

I just disagreed and said Nash has a bigger ego than Amare, people can either agree or disagree with that, my bad if anyone got offended.

[Fo-Real]

Look, i am a fan of both. truly Marbury had more potential ( that his crazy @ss didnt live up to) and Nash was the better and more consistent Basketball Player. And better (MUCH BETTER) for the team game.

[chriscringle95]

This is a man's league in case some of you forgot. Leaders have attitude and SWAG! Alpha male personality! Amare knows he is a beast and will always be a beast regardless of his defense. You have to have that type of guy in pro sports because it is a Billion Dollar league full of guys who think they are gods gift to basketball. Amare is all of 26 going on 27 and just entering his prime so give the dude a break. The only thing he hasn't done is get the Suns to the Finals. He has proven that he is an All Star and All NBA Superstar. Stop the Amare hate please!

Winning is all that matters and the Suns have done plenty of that over the last 5 years.

The best team record in NBA history to never make the playoffs and Amare is out 40+ games! Some of you are (Please Use More Appropriate Word) to think the Suns won't be contending this year or next. And yes Amare Stoudemire will be the man on those teams.

[Orange_Blooded]

"Like the great philosopher Sun tzu said: when you’re done f**king your enemies, f**k ‘m some more."

Ari Gold.

[TsunamiZC]

If "swagger" is such a big component in winning a championship for you, and marbury has so much of it, why hasn't he won a championship??? Why is that the teams he goes to continue to get worse with his presence ?

That was just an example, swagger helps though. Add that along with stats, and the system.

Swagger is nothing more than some modern day slang word for confidence, and Nash has that, as much or if not more than Marbury.

And I dont even like Nash, he was a bum ass non playing defense gimp in Dallas, but as a Sun he has his swagger....on offense at least.

[realfung]

lol?