The ANY TOPIC HERE thread that will turn into a TRADE JRICH

[justinb80]

I don't want anyone over 26 in any trade!

Definitely agree, unless they're an expiring contract IN ADDITION to a young talent under 26.

[dantian]

I think I'd do these together:

Lopez to Por for Rudy;
JRich to Cle for Z and JJHickson where we buy out Z for 10 mil,
tucker + Griffin to Nets for S. Willams,
Lou to GS for Morrow (or Clark to Clips for Thornton, or to Phily for Young or something like that)

[LukasBMW]

According to ESPN Barbosa + Jrich for TMAC works:

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachi ... eId=km7fh8

The Suns are not going to win it all this year with this team, so we might as well acquire TMAC so we have an absurd amount of cap space next year when Amare and TMAC's deals come off the books.

If we do this trade, the only Sun locked in for more then 3 mil a season next summer is Nash.

Nash, plus tons of cap space = one hell of a selling point for potential free agents.

I'd love to see the suns make a run at Dwade and Bosh. I don't think Lebron is going anywhere...

A wildcard to this deal...what if TMAC defies all odds and comes back better then expected from his micro fracture? Nash/Tmac/Hill/Amare/Fry with Dudley, Dragic and Lou off the bench would still be competitive.

[lilfishi22]

According to ESPN Barbosa + Jrich for TMAC works:

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachi ... eId=km7fh8

The Suns are not going to win it all this year with this team, so we might as well acquire TMAC so we have an absurd amount of cap space next year when Amare and TMAC's deals come off the books.

If we do this trade, the only Sun locked in for more then 3 mil a season next summer is Nash.

Nash, plus tons of cap space = one hell of a selling point for potential free agents.

I'd love to see the suns make a run at Dwade and Bosh. I don't think Lebron is going anywhere...

A wildcard to this deal...what if TMAC defies all odds and comes back better then expected from his micro fracture? Nash/Tmac/Hill/Amare/Fry with Dudley, Dragic and Lou off the bench would still be competitive.

I've been more and more interested to TMEC (Tracy McGrady Expiring Contract) for a while now. Since he came back from his injury and has shown he can still play a little, I'd strongly consider giving up Barbosa just so we could unload JRich and get back a HUGE expiring.

[Miklo]

Ugh talent wise I wouldn't give up either Barbosa OR JRich for "TMEC", both makes me cringe..

I guess if we go by the logic of freeing up a lot of cap space I could see this..however a few points there

1) Poor Barbosa such a great guy and I can't imagine him as anything other than a Sun
2) Does Sarver know what to do with cap space? Or would it just mean he could run a skeleton team with even less money on the line?
3) What would our numbers look like? i.e. would we be able to actually make a big signing or would it just make us not over the cap and give us room for a mid-quality guy?
4) Are we really ready to tank this season? TMac could come back nicely but I'm guessing he won't be as good as Barbs or JRich, again let alone both.

[justinb80]

I still really don't get why so many people get on Sarver for being cheap. Short-sighted, yes, but cheap, no. The Suns have been luxury tax payers for a long time now. They've signed a handful of players to very lucrative contracts (too bad they didn't give one of those to JJ ... oh well). I think the draft pick selling had more to do with the fact that Sarver had no confidence that D'Antoni would ever play those guys, so he would rather have the $3m or so. This is where his being short-sighted comes into play, and we're now paying the tab for that one.

If we got a lot of cap space, I think Sarver would use it, but would he use it wisely? Kerr has shown he's fairly good at sniffing out talent in the free agency market, but not sure how well he'd do signing a marquee free agent, rather than someone going for the vet's minimum.

[aIvin adams]

yah. calling sarver cheap is not accurate.

[Miklo]

I still really don't get why so many people get on Sarver for being cheap. Short-sighted, yes, but cheap, no. The Suns have been luxury tax payers for a long time now. They've signed a handful of players to very lucrative contracts (too bad they didn't give one of those to JJ ... oh well). I think the draft pick selling had more to do with the fact that Sarver had no confidence that D'Antoni would ever play those guys, so he would rather have the $3m or so. This is where his being short-sighted comes into play, and we're now paying the tab for that one.

If we got a lot of cap space, I think Sarver would use it, but would he use it wisely? Kerr has shown he's fairly good at sniffing out talent in the free agency market, but not sure how well he'd do signing a marquee free agent, rather than someone going for the vet's minimum.

Eh, I still don't take it back. Sure he's shelled out some money but he's done so more to compensate for stinginess than as an actual strategy.

When I say cheap, I mean low willingness to spend. He'll still let you walk if you ask for more than he thinks you're worth - and that threshold is low IMO. And he shells out for contracts at all the wrong times. So yes, you are correct in modifying my point to say that he is short-sighted. But I still say he's a cheap mofo, as a businessman in general.

[aIvin adams]

financial factors must be considered. first, it's a business that needs to be run like a business. second, from a purely competitive standpoint, heavy spending can induce KS (Knicks Syndrome) from which it takes years to recover.

[Miklo]

financial factors must be considered. first, it's a business that needs to be run like a business. second, from a purely competitive standpoint, heavy spending can induce KS (Knicks Syndrome) from which it takes years to recover.

Right, that's what I'm saying. $arver doesn't view it as a sports franchise at all, he views it as a business - which it is. But a business is not just an isolated island clutching purse strings for whatever reason - you can't just throw out the word "business" to provide evidence that spending is not a good strategy.

Business means providing value to the client and the supply chain, while turning a profit. THAT is how you need to view everything - whether it be a chain of banks or a sports franchise. Which leads me to my next point. Sarver is a banker by nature - his father was an entrepreneurial banker and passed that along to Robert. Banks' investments are in securities, whose profits allow the banks to provide customers with good rates. A sports franchise, while a business, runs a bit differently. The investments are in coaching staff, facilities and most importantly, players. In this case, contrary to the typical corporation you think of when you think of a "business", the clients (fans) take a vested interest in the investments (coach, players) - AND the investments are leveraged to get wins and rings - a measure of the success of this type of business.

With that out of the way, it's time to address Sarver's role/style as the executive of this business. There are a lot of ways you could go as an owner. There's always the model of the Knicks, like you said. Just spend, spend, spend indiscriminately. And yes, with all due respect to New Yorkers that made them the laughingstock of the league. Takes years to recover from that. But then there's the whole idea of being willing to spend whatever it takes to win, and doing that wisely. Mark Cuban, Danny Ainge and Jerry Buss come to mind here. Ask any of them what they would do with x amount of cap space or when they would refuse to re-sign a player who was asking for a raise and they would say, "I'd do whatever it would take to build a full contending roster. Then of course there are super-cheap owners or owners who are in too small of markets to have the revenue to support a Kobe or LeBron. I'm NOT saying Sarver is one of those either.

Sarver started out real cheap. But not just in the sense that he wouldn't sign anyone over a certain dollar amount - he was unwilling to even negotiate after a certain point. We lost a couple key guys because they did not have faith that Sarver would either pay them or surround them. Message boards, articles, even TV broadcasters were abuzz with talk of Sarver's cost-cutting nature. It was only THEN that he started to loosen up the purse strings a little bit, which is what you're referring to. But he did this in the name of public perception - again coming back to the business thing. A couple of overly big or stupid extensions were signed. Can you then come out and say that Sarver is willing to spend whatever it takes? Absolutely not. That's what he would like you to think, yes. He didn't want his name all over the headlines anymore for not caring about fans, only his pockets. But is he REALLY trying to "spend whatever it takes"? Even if at first glance you would say yes, but he's doing it wisely, think about it. Are we at all in a position to make waves in this free agent class? Do we know Amar'e won't opt out because he feels confident that Sarver will build a winner? Both of those are big fat no's, and those are just examples. What will actually happen is the same thing that happened with Joe Johnson and Shawn Marion - Amar'e will ask 2 questions: how much will you pay me, and/or how much will you pay to surround me? And we all know the answers to those. We've all talked nonstop about all the "could have been's", and those are exactly what I'm referring to. I know the man will make signings but he doesn't PLAN AHEAD and set up master plans so that he can sign a big name or acquire a big name, a la Ainge. All of that is my rationale for calling him cheap.

[RaisingArizona]

I'm bumpin this again lol

[dantian]

I still really don't get why so many people get on Sarver for being cheap. Short-sighted, yes, but cheap, no. The Suns have been luxury tax payers for a long time now. They've signed a handful of players to very lucrative contracts (too bad they didn't give one of those to JJ ... oh well). I think the draft pick selling had more to do with the fact that Sarver had no confidence that D'Antoni would ever play those guys, so he would rather have the $3m or so. This is where his being short-sighted comes into play, and we're now paying the tab for that one.

If we got a lot of cap space, I think Sarver would use it, but would he use it wisely? Kerr has shown he's fairly good at sniffing out talent in the free agency market, but not sure how well he'd do signing a marquee free agent, rather than someone going for the vet's minimum.

+1

[Fo-Real]

J Rich, Barbs, Collins, and Griffin(not garenteed contract...cut) and or 2nd rd pick,for T-mac, get Raja bought out bring him home.......

[realsunsfan]

Hey guys, take a look at MVF at his finest trying to trade Dudley.....................

http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=971555

[aIvin adams]

All of that is my rationale for calling him cheap.

i see what you are saying. i think calling him 'cheap' is misleading because he's made moves that cost him dough. sterling is cheap. the bidwells were cheap. sarver seemed like he might be cheap, but has proven that he was just a bad businessman. he is willing to invest to turn a profit. i have no doubt he's in it for the profit and not the championships (which puts him in with about 95% of owners i guess). i think with experience he is getting better at understanding NBA ROI.

[Miklo]

i think with experience he is getting better at understanding NBA ROI.

Yeah, I can see that, good point. I think that goes with what I was saying too about him adapting to all the criticism for making banking moves with an NBA team.

[realsunsfan]

While I am still on the fence about Jrich, because I still think this is the perfect situation for him and still think he will continue to improve as the season continues, and he heals up..............
I think a trade like this can really help short term and long term............

Jrich and TGriff for:

Tony Battie --- Defensive Center can hit midrange shot (expires@ end of season)
Ji Jianlian
Courtney Lee

No way does Jersey do it though..........

http://www.realgm.com/src_checktrade.php?tradeid=5367251

[JohnVancouver]

All of that is my rationale for calling him cheap.

i see what you are saying. i think calling him 'cheap' is misleading because he's made moves that cost him dough. sterling is cheap. the bidwells were cheap. sarver seemed like he might be cheap, but has proven that he was just a bad businessman. he is willing to invest to turn a profit. i have no doubt he's in it for the profit and not the championships (which puts him in with about 95% of owners i guess). i think with experience he is getting better at understanding NBA ROI.

CBS Sports reports that Suns are among those teams having had the biggest decline in gate receipts, at 23+%
That's a hefty bite

[Fo-Real]

All of that is my rationale for calling him cheap.

i see what you are saying. i think calling him 'cheap' is misleading because he's made moves that cost him dough. sterling is cheap. the bidwells were cheap. sarver seemed like he might be cheap, but has proven that he was just a bad businessman. he is willing to invest to turn a profit. i have no doubt he's in it for the profit and not the championships (which puts him in with about 95% of owners i guess). i think with experience he is getting better at understanding NBA ROI.

CBS Sports reports that Suns are among those teams having had the biggest decline in gate receipts, at 23+%
That's a hefty bite

What are the odds that Jerry Colengelo can come in and repurchase the team....at a discounted rate ofcourse and get this finantial thing righted.