Bosh Or Amar!

[hunterxaz]

its easy(easier) to have the numbers he has when he's surrounded by chumps... amare works with real talent and still manages to have crazy good stats.

[tsherkin]

its easy(easier) to have the numbers he has when he's surrounded by chumps... amare works with real talent and still manages to have crazy good stats.

I could just as easily say "it's easier for Amare because he's assisted on a higher-percentage of his baskets and is being set up by one of the best playmakers in the league, with far better court-spacing than Bosh enjoys."

What's your counter? There isn't one. Bosh's situation doesn't inflate his stats. He's not taking a stunning number of shots, he's just way efficient. He's not taking more shots than he could get sharing the ball, because the Raptors move the ball around pretty well and are in fact a good offensive team.

Amare has the benefit of real talent around him that inflates his efficiency and makes his job easier. It's two sides of the same coin, but in the case of Toronto, you're forgetting that we're still a top 5 offense in the league.

We may have been wretched on defense earlier this year (though much improved for nearly 30 games now, and Phoenix isn't any better defensively), but our offense remains fantastic.

So I'd put it to you that the "chumps" you speak of are actually reasonably good on offense. Or Chris Bosh is damned awesome on offense.

You pick, but either way, you lose that one.

[Sun Scorched]

I know it's been mentioned that Amare is assisted on more of his shots than Bosh, but let's be clear here...

Amare get's out in transition very well. In addition, he's also in a position, more often than not, to take advantage of an assist. I'll admit that the "quality" of the assist may be higher because it's coming from Nash, but I'm not going to hold it against Amare that he converts the assist.

There are two parts an assist afterall, the actual pass and then the finish.

I would also have to imagine that Amare converts AST at a higher rate than does Bosh. Again, could be the quality more than anything... but there is something to be said about effeciency.

Bosh can score 24+ for all I care, my favorite games are when Amare goes 8-10 or 11-14. I'd much rather have efficiency than volume.

Haha, not that Bosh isn't efficient at 52%, but you get what I'm saying.

[tsherkin]

I know it's been mentioned that Amare is assisted on more of his shots than Bosh, but let's be clear here...

Amare get's out in transition very well. In addition, he's also in a position, more often than not, to take advantage of an assist. I'll admit that the "quality" of the assist may be higher because it's coming from Nash, but I'm not going to hold it against Amare that he converts the assist.

I don't think it's a bad thing that he does it... it makes him good at taking advantages of the opportunities he gets. But if Bosh had a transition point guard with the way he runs, he'd be doing the same sorts of things. Calderon, at times, REFUSES the break because he's not very good at operating anywhere but in the PnR, and Jack isn't exactly a speed bug, though he'll push tempo if he can.

I would also have to imagine that Amare converts AST at a higher rate than does Bosh. Again, could be the quality more than anything... but there is something to be said about effeciency.

Well, overall efficiency doesn't favor Amare noticeably, at least not this year. He's at 59.8% TS to Amare's 60.4%, despite the difference in assists.

Bosh can score 24+ for all I care, my favorite games are when Amare goes 8-10 or 11-14. I'd much rather have efficiency than volume.

It's nice to have the luxury to only give him 10 shots and still be able to win with all the talent around him; there is no such option on Toronto, which is why we're so bad without him. Our team only really works with him present. Everything keys off of him, where the same is not true of Amare, which is why he's afforded such opportunities in Phoenix.

I guess it's relative, and speaking negatively about Amare on the Phoenix board (of which I'm myself a mod...) is a bit gauche, but I haven't liked Amare's game compared to Bosh for a few years now. The major separation there is Nash and role, and pretty much everything else seems to favor Chris at this point. Should Amare LEAVE Phoenix and continue to perform as he has, well, that would be the ultimate crow-stuffer, but I don't think that's apt to happen.

Also, something no one's been discussing...

Turnovers.

Amare turns the ball over about 13% of the time, which is 2% more often than Bosh's average. He's at 10.1% this year, which is exceptionally stingy as far as coughing up the ball, especially for a PF/C, and certainly for a guy using nearly 29% of his team's offensive possessions. There's a reason Bosh's ORTG is 4 points higher than Amare's, it's not just because he scores more.

[ma_falaa_50]

Chris Bosh: 24.5ppg 11.7rpg 1.1bpg
Amare Stoudemire: 22ppg 8.7rpg 1.0bpg

So he's soft?

Oh ya one of those guys plays with Steve Nash.

what his stats got to do with him being soft. David robinson was soft, shawn marion is soft and they average double doubles. ur point is an epic fail.

[hoopnow]

Chris Bosh: 24.5ppg 11.7rpg 1.1bpg
Amare Stoudemire: 22ppg 8.7rpg 1.0bpg

So he's soft?

Oh ya one of those guys plays with Steve Nash.

what his stats got to do with him being soft. David robinson was soft, shawn marion is soft and they average double doubles. ur point is an epic fail.

I see your point, we just have different definitions of soft.

its easy(easier) to have the numbers he has when he's surrounded by chumps... amare works with real talent and still manages to have crazy good stats.

Amare works with the best assisting PG in the game right now, who assists more of his shots than any other tandem in the league. Bosh plays with Calderon and Jarret Jack.

[Miklo]

Chris Bosh: 24.5ppg 11.7rpg 1.1bpg
Amare Stoudemire: 22ppg 8.7rpg 1.0bpg

So he's soft?

Oh ya one of those guys plays with Steve Nash.

what his stats got to do with him being soft. David robinson was soft, shawn marion is soft and they average double doubles. ur point is an epic fail.

I see your point, we just have different definitions of soft.

And yours is? Please, enlighten us. Because I assume that in coming to the Phoenix board and discrediting Amar'e you intend on at least backing it up?

And your point about giving Bosh a handicap because he doesn't have a good passer can easily be turned on its head when you look at overall talent surrounding each; this would suggest Amar'e needs to work harder to put up the same numbers as Bosh, as someone mentioned before.

So it all boils down to: this thread has been an interesting read with differing perspectives, but yours is merely a blanket statement about Amar'e with no substance or argument at all. This I believe is called trolling.

[garrick]

For me I like the fact that he can have monster games on any given night and also because he has given us an explosive PF which is something that we went without for so many years.
After watching Manning and Googs be the starting PF's during the Kidd era I was ecstatic to finally be getting an athletic forward that had regular highlight reel dunks throughout the season so for that reason I feel some loyalty towards Amare and want him to stay on.

[JohnVancouver]

Amar'e and Bosh both have a superior work ethic, seems to me - though you could also say at their level, that kind of ethic is pretty much expected but not always seen. Both of them have worked hard to develop different aspects of their game, including strength.

I love Stat but after watching a few seasons of Raps games, I have to go with tsherkin and give the edge to Bosh. The only thing I would criticize about CB is that he gets stripped so often when he drives to the basket. He needs some increased strength in his hands or something - have you noticed that tsh?
What do you reckon it is?

Bosh is also committed to getting boards, something we only see intermittently with Amar'e.

With all that said, though - Amar'e is on a bit of a tear and if he could make the game he's showing right now a full-time thing, he would truly be a beast.

And who would have thought we'd be holding up Z-Bo as one of the most effective PFs in the league.
MIP? He's got my vote

[lilfishi22]

Z-Bo has always been an effective scorer when he's playing the right way (ie not shooting pull-up 3's) but it's only now he's getting recognition because he's got a decent cast around him that works well. Gasol isn't a guy that demands touches and he's the shotblocker Z-Bo needs besides him. He's got unselfish guards in Mayo and Conley and he's got a 2nd scorer in Gay.

[dantian]

Bosh's main advantage over Amare is the lack of health concern. For the last 20 games or so, Amare shows much more paint dominance than Bosh on both ends of the court, even though both's defense are average. Bosh is lighter and quicker on defense, though.

Besides, Amare is the best off-ball bigman on offense right now. He sets great picks/screens for everybody and moves into right places most of the time. This doesn't get reflected on the stats sheet.

Paired with any good P&R PG or dominant SG like Nash, Paul, Wade, I'd prefer Amare over Bosh by miles.

[lilfishi22]

To get the most out of Amare, you need a guy of Nash's caliber. Bosh has never played with a guy like Nash before so what you see is all him. Bosh just seems to be more comfortable with the ball 15ft out whereas Amare just looks awkward when he tries to make a play for the basket at the same distance. When Amare's successful he finishes with a slam, but more than likely he'll get stripped before he get's within dunking distance. Bosh's handles aren't a whole lot better than Amare's but because he has more of a finesse game, he doesn't need to get within dunking distance to score a basket. Bosh's rebounding is also a huge asset that many of this board seem to just ignore and give Amare the nod as the better player.

Not saying Amare can't do it on his own, since he's averaged something like 21/9 in the few games he's played with Nash, but if I was starting a team, I'd take Bosh over Amare. It's not easy finding a guy who can maximize Amare's tools but Bosh doesn't need a guy like that to still be dominant. His leadership skills is not something you can discount either.