Lon Babby and the Turk Trade...?

[th3matrix1]

I like frogs!

[Wormwood74]

LOL at you guys who think Hedo's better than Barbosa.

Barbosa's PER has always been higher.

His contract is more palatable. It's smaller AND shorter.

His conditioning (and dedication to it) is far better than the pudgy chain smoking Turkoglu.

His attitude is better. Barbosa, even if he wasn't happy with his role, had the decency to play hard and keep his mouth shut. Turkoglu called in sick and went clubbing when things didn't go his way.

I would take Barbosa over Turkoglu any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

The kool-aid drinking homers here who love Hedo are experiencing a well known psychological form of dissonance wherein people try to convince themselves they made the right decision after buying something. The alternative is acknowledging they did something stupid.

[grumpysaddle]

... because Barbosa contributed so much last season and his role on the team was COMPLETELY necessary, right?

[RocPHX]

Well with the way Warrick has played this pre-season, I don't see why we would want to acquire anymore forwards. Making moves now could hurt our chances in being players in next year's free agency, as if we are to acquire a highly paid PF, the otehr team would mostlikely want J-Rich's expiring contract in return.

Look. I know it's not an ideal situation we have here. But its the situation we will go into the season with. Gentry will have to try and get the best results he can from our current crop of players; and if that means Hedo has to go to the bench, so be it. I can guarantee Hedo would much rather play off the bench here in Phoenix than still be stuck in Toronto. Beggar's can't be choosers Hedo.

I feel if given the playing time, Warrick can develop into a very servicable starting PF for us. He is very good at finishing around the rim, and he can try to replicate Amare's PnR play with Nash. Warrick also has a quite useful mid range jump shot. Although Warrick is a below average rebounder, I cannot see why we cannot revert to last season's rebounding techniques of having our wings contribute to grabbing the boards.

On the other end of the scale, with Hedo off the bench, Hedo can assist Dragic in the ball handling duties. Dragic has not shown me any improvement in his playmaking abilities during this pre-season. I believe having Hedo helping Dragic at the Pg will allow Dragic to play a "Manu Ginobilli" type role, as just a pure scorer off the bench.

c/s

[Wormwood74]

... because Barbosa contributed so much last season and his role on the team was COMPLETELY necessary, right?

Thanks for making my point for me.

Are you saying Turkoglu contributed more to his team last year than Barbosa? If you think the answer is yes, then you need to put down the crack pipe, because everyone else who follows basketball knows he was terrible. Go ask a Raptors fan if you have any doubts.

Like we needed a 5th small forward in Hedo. Yeah, that sounds so much more necessary than a back up SG. At a cost of 33% more than Barbosa. For 2 more year than Barbosa.

Oh wait, you're saying the overweight chain smoking 31 year old is going to turn it around before the 27 year old conditioning freak does whose down shooting numbers were probably due to a wrist injury had had surgery for mid-season? I'll take that bet anytime, anywhere.

[RunDogGun]

Thanks for making my point for me.

Are you saying Turkoglu contributed more to his team last year than Barbosa? If you think the answer is yes, then you need to put down the crack pipe, because everyone else who follows basketball knows he was terrible. Go ask a Raptors fan if you have any doubts.

Like we needed a 5th small forward in Hedo. Yeah, that sounds so much more necessary than a back up SG. At a cost of 33% more than Barbosa. For 2 more year than Barbosa.

Oh wait, you're saying the overweight chain smoking 31 year old is going to turn it around before the 27 year old conditioning freak does whose down shooting numbers were probably due to a wrist injury had had surgery for mid-season? I'll take that bet anytime, anywhere.

But with Hedo, we now have a more versatile player. While I did like LB as a person, and loved the speed he brought to the game, he was quite limited on what he could do. He wasn't a creator. He became a ball stopper. Hedo provides more relief on the ball handling end, while now also allowing a plug for the hole left by the exit of Amare.

It seems well known that the deal was in place before Amare left for more guaranteed money. And while that was in place, the Chill deal was probably discussed. Add to that the fact that LB asked to be traded. Now the question becomes, would LB be versatile enough to fill the hole left by Amare. Or better yet, if Amare would have stayed, would LB made a crack into the starting lineup?

I think with the players we have, Hedo will be better for our team than LB would have been. Plus we haven't even seen Hedo in a regular season game, so it is impossible to know what he will bring to THIS team. But we do know what LB brought to this team. I think this discussion will be easier to argue around December.

[grumpysaddle]

... because Barbosa contributed so much last season and his role on the team was COMPLETELY necessary, right?

Thanks for making my point for me.

Are you saying Turkoglu contributed more to his team last year than Barbosa? If you think the answer is yes, then you need to put down the crack pipe, because everyone else who follows basketball knows he was terrible. Go ask a Raptors fan if you have any doubts.

Like we needed a 5th small forward in Hedo. Yeah, that sounds so much more necessary than a back up SG. At a cost of 33% more than Barbosa. For 2 more year than Barbosa.

Oh wait, you're saying the overweight chain smoking 31 year old is going to turn it around before the 27 year old conditioning freak does whose down shooting numbers were probably due to a wrist injury had had surgery for mid-season? I'll take that bet anytime, anywhere.

Of course Raptors fans are jaded. Who wouldn't be when stuck in their situation? While Hedo isn't exactly a PF, he's at least passable in defending them at 6'10" or whatever height he is... He's unaccustomed to doing it, but he'll learn with time. The only defense Barbosa brought was a steal from the passing lanes every now and then. He's just not what the Suns needed anymore. I like him as a person, and he was a great 6th man a few years ago, but his time with the Suns was at an end. As pointed out, he asked for a trade. I hope he does well and revives his career with Toronto. I'm not at all saying Hedo is the savior of the Suns or anything ridiculous like that... at worst it was a lateral move. At best, he'll find his shot and return to his Orlando form from a couple seasons back. With Dragic as the reserve PG, Barbosa just served to slow Dragic's development. I don't know if you watched the games at all last season, but when Dragic would pass to Barbosa, the last thing he could expect would be getting the ball back. It usually ended with Barbosa trying to dribble through 3 players and tossing up a circus shot or turning the ball over. As good as Barbosa is in the fast break, he's that bad in a half-court setting. While the Suns are still thought of as a fast break, run, run, run team... they've actually become more of an uptempo-quick half-court possession type team.

[RocPHX]

lol Barbosa was so bad for us last year. I've never liked him to be honest. Dude just kills possessions and is really dumb late in games.

[Frank Lee]

Grump.... there is no turning the 'Worm'. He has validated his argument with statistics. Though they may be hand picked, they provide a pathway for his conclusion. The only thing countering it, is Hedu is now playing in an entirely different scheme and with a complete new set of team mates. Lets just hope he finds a contributing role and is not crucified for 'not being' the PF we crave. Thats all I got.... hope. We have been duly warned by the raptor fans. Only his play will settle this discussion.

But I'd bet, if Babby was not here, Hedu would not be either.

[Scouta]

and OP... Lon Babby is still in the PHX F.O. He didn't just stay for a short amount of time.

Apparently Babby's style or method of agency is a 1 time fee for contactual negotiations.... not a traditional % cut of the salary. I do not know if that makes any difference, but I figure he may not be as involved with the 'hand holding' aspect most agents have during a player's career.

Certainly his familiarity with Sarver began with Hill and apparently they felt comfortable working together. It is said Tglu for Barbs had been a thought prior to Stat leaving, as the Brazilian Blurb was pouting for a half season. I contended that Barbs was also un-tradable. You Raptor fans may love him now, but he is a head shaker and a WTF-er to watch. I am not sure who got the better end of the stick in that deal as we both may wind up with stink on our hands. At least you can wash yours clean sooner.

JChill was somewhat of a puzzling sign up, but my thoughts lean towards Babby knowing Hill's desires, as well as the realization we could lose (be out bid) both JRich and Duds. I think he was our best move this off season.

I can see the conspiracy wheels turning, and frankly, do not doubt a connection between signing Babby's boys and getting Babby here. I also think Sarver had Babby's thumbs up prior to coaxing Kerr-plunk back to the announcing booth, where lil stevie wanted to be all along once Doug Collins relinquished his seat.

Sarver has set up what appears to be a Board of Director approach with the front office. Perhaps more structured like a bank than a ballteam. Babby, Blanks, Gentry all with substantial voices and input (hopefully).

We have some big changes brewing next yr, a new CBA, a couple of key players open for negotiation in Hill, JRich, Duds, and a possible malcontent in Nash, who would be an ideal trade piece, especially if he continues with his very subtle questions about this line up. Toss a losing season at us and see how that 'chemistry' holds up.

I really do not think it matters much what pathways TGlu, JChill, and LBabby took to get here. They certainly are linked. Regardless, nothing changes our need for a real PF.

Thanks a lot.

This is exactly what I was looking for, I follow the Suns a bit but not enough to have information in such depth, thats why I came to you guys to ask questions and get some insight into this issue.

Regardless, I still think that Babby's list of clients working with the Suns is very instrumental in him landing the job and maybe there is something else to it. I also still believe he was the main individual behind bringing Hedo to Toronto, and maybe he did see this move as benefiting the Suns, but I think he mostly acted in Hedo's favor. It can't be a coincidence that Hedo stated his wish of Phoenix being the top team he would like to be traded to, months and months before this even got into the media. I think Hedo pushed for this and Babby and himself took advantage of their power and input in the Suns FO. So basically there is still an issue of conflict of interest in the Suns Organization, I am not sure about this, but has Babby released his clients? Because technically he stills represents them, and with the CHildress deal he was basically on both ends of the deal, which doesn't quite make sense.

Grump.... there is no turning the 'Worm'. He has validated his argument with statistics. Though they may be hand picked, they provide a pathway for his conclusion. The only thing countering it, is Hedu is now playing in an entirely different scheme and with a complete new set of team mates. Lets just hope he finds a contributing role and is not crucified for 'not being' the PF we crave. Thats all I got.... hope. We have been duly warned by the raptor fans. Only his play will settle this discussion.

But I'd bet, if Babby was not here, Hedu would not be either.

EXACTLY, and I dont think its a good idea to have someone in your FO, who has power on both sides (as an agent and as a PoBO). Regardless of how Hedo plays this season, I dont think Suns fans should be too excited about having Lon Babby running their basketball transactions, this guy clearly worked in his client's interest more than the team's and him having double roles in this kind of situation should definitely not be allowed.

[grumpysaddle]

^^^^^^

Babby gave up his position as an agent when he became Suns PoBO. Much like the Isiah (sp? too lazy to look up, think its right though) Thomas thing in NY where they wanted to have him play a small part as a scout for the Knicks. Because he was coaching a college team, he could not also work for an NBA team as there would be a conflict of interests.

There's been mention that Hedo was in talks with PHX long before Babby ever became part of the organization. I think it was partially a ploy to try and get Amar'e to stay. But no doubt Babby coming to the Suns had something to do with the deal actually going through. I don't think Hedo in PHX will be as detrimental as some believe. If anything a lateral movement... But if Babby was the reason the Suns got Childress... then awesome. I think he'll play a big part in the Suns' hopeful success in the coming seasons.

[DirtyDez]

The Phoenix Suns:

Where owner plays GM happens.

[SUNNNNY]

babby didnt officially become pobo until after the turkoglu aquisition but he was here pretty much advising right after kerr left i thought

[DRK]

c/s

What?

[RocPHX]

c/s = cosign.

[Wormwood74]

Grump.... there is no turning the 'Worm'. He has validated his argument with statistics. Though they may be hand picked, they provide a pathway for his conclusion. The only thing countering it, is Hedu is now playing in an entirely different scheme and with a complete new set of team mates. Lets just hope he finds a contributing role and is not crucified for 'not being' the PF we crave. Thats all I got.... hope. We have been duly warned by the raptor fans. Only his play will settle this discussion.

But I'd bet, if Babby was not here, Hedu would not be either.

And he's looked like crap in a pre-season where we're undenaibly 2-5, have the worst point differential of any team, and are getting slaughtered on the boards.

Dude, wake up and smell the napalm. How long will reality have to stare you in the face before you accept it?

[grumpysaddle]

Grump.... there is no turning the 'Worm'. He has validated his argument with statistics. Though they may be hand picked, they provide a pathway for his conclusion. The only thing countering it, is Hedu is now playing in an entirely different scheme and with a complete new set of team mates. Lets just hope he finds a contributing role and is not crucified for 'not being' the PF we crave. Thats all I got.... hope. We have been duly warned by the raptor fans. Only his play will settle this discussion.

But I'd bet, if Babby was not here, Hedu would not be either.

And he's looked like crap in a pre-season where we're undenaibly 2-5, have the worst point differential of any team, and are getting slaughtered on the boards.

Dude, wake up and smell the napalm. How long will reality have to stare you in the face before you accept it?

By scrubs I'm going with anyone past the first 10 players in a rotation.

Combined playing time:
10/18 - @Raptors
Suns scrubs - 58:08
Raptors scrubs - 9:18

10/14 - @Jazz
Suns scrubs - 96:40
Jazz scrubs - 34:15

10/12 - vs. Jazz
Suns scrubs - 41:35
Jazz scrubs - 45:15
Suns only lost this game by 5, with the depths of the bench in to finish the game.

10/9 - vs. Mavs
Suns scrubs - 48:30
Mavs scrubs - 53:00
Mavs scrubs played more, Suns won.

10/6 - vs. Raptors
Suns scrubs - 89:00
Raptors scrubs - 46:30
Almost double time for the Suns scrubs and 50 point loss...

10/5 - @Kings
Suns scrubs - 70:55
Kings scrubs - 4:32

Preseason! The games the starters and bench have played more expected minutes for the regular season, the Suns have looked fine.

[bballno21]

Start bashing in December. Wait some time (let's say 20 regular season games) to judge Hedo. All I know is, Hedo had some serious trouble with motivation in the past. I've seen him pathetic several times ago. And you can count on the fact that it has been mainly when it didn't matter (i.e. preseason games). For all you've watched WC in Turkey - he seemed so passive, lazy, unmotivated at the beginning of the tournament but he finished strong (even though I'd never say he was superb-active). I don't like him much as a player but I believe he'll fit with Suns fairly well.

[Frank Lee]

Dude, wake up and smell the napalm. How long will reality have to stare you in the face before you accept it?

Dooood.... 25 games of reality... thats what it will take. I do not place my hand on a Statistical-Bible and swear the future as easy as you. Besides, I have yet to have had my Frankstramal Vision about Hedu yet. I am running low on my peyote.