Bring back S.S.O.L.

[Wannabe MEP]

seriously though - worth a shot

I mean, we've never completely abandoned it. Obviously, playing Hedo at the four isn't exactly conventional. And we still try and run on rebounds and makes more than most teams.

But I think D'Antoni would be licking his chops if he had this roster to coach. And we would be playing faster, shooting a higher percentage and playing very different lineups than we are now.

[Kerrsed]

Kerrsed, I'm trying to figure out what you meant by that post. Was that your way of saying...

1) A whole post filled with...sentences?!? Not just sentences, but analytical sentences. No pictures? No video? No obscure references?!? No Internet slang??? Not even a single smilie?

2) I'm too A.D.D. to read that much (but I repeat myself?)
3) You got a point, but it's not going to happen
4) I disagree

If it was 3 or 4, would you mind stating why?

#2.

Sorry i took so long to respond, been kinda busy taking down Mastercard/Visa/Amazon/Sarah Palin.

That is all.

[DRK]

#2.

Sorry i took so long to respond, been kinda busy taking down governments through my website Wikileaks.

That is all.

OMG. Julian Assange is that you!?!?!?!

[Wannabe MEP]

Phoenix Suns' struggles increase as game pace slows

by Paul Coro - Dec. 10, 2010 09:47 PM
The Arizona Republic

The Suns are trying to get back to higher spots in the league and the climb is slowing their pace.

The Suns still play at the sixth-fastest pace in the NBA, but it is the first time they have not ranked in the league's top five since Steve Nash returned to Phoenix in 2004, when they led the league for those first two seasons.

The Suns' 97.2 possessions per game trail Minnesota, Denver, New York, Golden State and Houston. Lately, the Suns have not established the tempo early in games and have trailed after the first quarter for five consecutive games.


Read more: http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/ar ... z17o5NLej6

[Wannabe MEP]

Last night was about the most conventional I've ever seen us play. Slow and iso after iso. And we sucked horribly.

This comes two days after we made a heroic comeback playing incredibly fast with our bench.

[Frank Lee]

I was noticing the same thing Soles. I was trying to count the number of plays, you know, actual set plays drawn up... and it seemed like we were the 90's Bulls and everyone took turns being Michael.

May be we are playing a new version of SSOL... dribble around, make a series of noneffective perimeter passes, then try to forcefully create something when the shot clock says 7 or less.

[Wannabe MEP]

I was noticing the same thing Soles. I was trying to count the number of plays, you know, actual set plays drawn up... and it seemed like we were the 90's Bulls and everyone took turns being Michael.

May be we are playing a new version of SSOL... dribble around, make a series of noneffective perimeter passes, then try to forcefully create something when the shot clock says 7 or less.

We did do some set plays early on...and they sucked horribly. So we went to all isos. We've always kept it simple by playing fast, pick-and-rolls, and dribble-ats. And been the best offense in the NBA. What, do we think we can all-of-a-sudden become the Utah Jazz and beat them at their game? We looked like a junior high team, stumbling through some disjointed screens. It created no space at all. But the only thing worse than those stupid plays was trying to become the Lakers. Good luck with that. Yeah, let's exchange one-on-ones with Kobe and Gasol. brilliant.

[Wannabe MEP]

Hey, have we done any dribble-ats this year?? If we're going to play four f*cking ball-handlers in the starting unit, why the hell are we not doing any dribble-ats?

Nash-Hedo > Nash-Diaw if we did that.

[Wannabe MEP]

If we're going to play four f*cking ball-handlers in the starting unit, why the hell are we not doing any dribble-ats?

I guess we're only starting three ballhandlers now. But still, that's plenty. And we've played Nash and Hedo together quite a bit anyway.

[grumpysaddle]

I have nothing more to offer the topic, but I agree that the Suns should return to SSOL. Everyone on the team just needs to get into ridiculous shape to do that.

[Wannabe MEP]

Translating 2004-2007 to now:

(Sorta kinda) Direct Translations:
Steve Nash -------------------> Steve Nash
Amar'e Stoudemire ------------> Hakim Warrick
Shawn Marion ----------------> Josh Childress
Raja Bell ---------------------> Jared Dudley
Leandro Barbosa --------------> Goran Dragic
Kurt Thomas -----------------> Robin Lopez
Boris Diaw -------------------> Hedo Turkoglu
Joe Johnson/Eddie House -------> Jason Richardson

Stuff we've never had before:
Channing Frye. Absolutely essential piece, and perhaps the biggest reason why I think this team can be better than ever at S.S.O.L. We can spread out, play fast, and fire threes without sacrificing size. He changes everything.
Grant Hill. Doesn't fit S.S.O.L., but he could still get important minutes as a crafty veteran leader off the bench.
Earl Clark. ??? Extra defensive stopper who could create mismatches.

Building around Nash, JRich, and Hill is conventional, and we suck at conventional basketball. If we think according to S.S.O.L. instead...

The Core:
1) Steve Nash
2) Channing Frye
3) Jared Dudley
4) Josh Childress
5) Hakim Warrick

Also essential:
6) Robin Lopez
7) Goran Dragic

That's almost a complete D'Antoni game roster: Nash-Bell-Marion-Amare(lite)-Frye(?)-Barbosa-Thomas for $32,251,326. Keep Earl Clark, and that's 8 players (5 starters and 3 bench players who can fill any position) for $34,150,086.

EVERYTHING ELSE on the roster is a possible trading piece for a Warrick upgrade, and whatever remains provides depth and offensive variety.

[YFZblu]

I'm always with you in these posts until you mention Grant Hill off the bench.

1. Gentry has a ridiculous man-crush on Grant Hill.
2. Grant Hill plays terribly off the bench--He has proven that he can't be productive when inserted into the game with cold legs

[Wannabe MEP]

1. Gentry has a ridiculous man-crush on Grant Hill.

I know

2. Grant Hill plays terribly off the bench--He has proven that he can't be productive when inserted into the game with cold legs

1) I don't buy that argument. If he can sub out and come back in and if he can play after halftime, he can come in off the bench. Any chance his brief stretch of sucking off the bench had anything to do with the Nash-effect?
2) Fine. Don't play him.
3) Try something different like: start him, play him ~15 minutes a game, and switch to S.S.O.L. whenever he sits.

[YFZblu]

1) I don't buy that argument. If he can sub out and come back in and if he can play after halftime, he can come in off the bench. Any chance his brief stretch of sucking off the bench had anything to do with the Nash-effect?

It's not really an argument, it's just what happened:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... lits/2009/

2) Fine. Don't play him.

Your commitment to this is EPIC.

3) Try something different like: start him, play him ~15 minutes a game, and switch to S.S.O.L. whenever he sits.

I like this. Start him, and reduce his 29 minutes down to 20, giving Dudley the 9 sacrificed minutes....Or split them up between Childress and Dudley, making sure both of those players spend the majority of their court time with Nash.

[Sundamental]

Los Soles,

I've done a lot of thinking and research on this topic the past weekend and your essential point is absolutely correct. We do need to switch back to the old style of play. I'm going to start a new topic on the subject because my POV is sufficiently different enough to warrant separation. It's going to be fairly lengthy so I'm sure it won't get a thumbs up from Kerrsed . I'll post it later today. As for your player recommendations above you missed one really big piece. TURK. If you can keep pounding on Hill, I can keep espousing the worth of Hedo. While it isn't the biggest part of what I will be suggesting, think about this. Orlando runs a similar system and Hedo ran the system there along with Nelson. Plus he's 28th on the list of active three point shooters. Can't have too many three point shooters or distributors in that system.

[JohnVancouver]

kudos to Sundamental for first use of "espousing" on the board

[Wannabe MEP]

1) I don't buy that argument. If he can sub out and come back in and if he can play after halftime, he can come in off the bench. Any chance his brief stretch of sucking off the bench had anything to do with the Nash-effect?

It's not really an argument, it's just what happened:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... lits/2009/

I don't think it's so simple.
1) Nash effect.
2) Nash effect.
3) Nash effect.
4) 14 game sample. That's it.
5) This was the beginning of the 2008-2009 season. New (awful) coach, bizarre, wildly fluctuating lineups (15 starting lineup changes in the first 23 games), complete chaos in the Suns offense.
6) Rebounding, blocks, steals: almost exactly the same per minute when he started and off the bench. You would assume defensive stats would suffer more if the issue was age and cold legs.
7) Did I mention the Nash effect?

2) Fine. Don't play him.

Your commitment to this is EPIC.

It's slightly schizophrenic, considering I'm also obsessed with defense and chemistry/character, and Hill brings both.

[Wannabe MEP]

I've done a lot of thinking and research on this topic the past weekend and your essential point is absolutely correct. We do need to switch back to the old style of play.

I'm going to start a new topic on the subject because my POV is sufficiently different enough to warrant separation. It's going to be fairly lengthy so I'm sure it won't get a thumbs up from Kerrsed . I'll post it later today.

Waiting for it...

As for your player recommendations above you missed one really big piece. TURK. If you can keep pounding on Hill, I can keep espousing the worth of Hedo. While it isn't the biggest part of what I will be suggesting, think about this. Orlando runs a similar system and Hedo ran the system there along with Nelson. Plus he's 28th on the list of active three point shooters. Can't have too many three point shooters or distributors in that system.

Boris Diaw -------------------> Hedo Turkoglu
I'd say that's fairly strong approval. His versatility and mismatch potential is incredibly valuable, and I think he could be a wonderful "dribble-at" partner with Nash (but we haven't really been doing that) or creator off the bench.

I think Turk and JRich both fit wonderfully on offense, but leave holes on defense. They aren't worth the almost 25 million dollars between them. I'd happily keep either one, but I'd also happily trade either or both for a significant frontcourt upgrade.

My point is that we have too many swingmen and 28 million dollars between Hill, JRich, and Turk when we have what I think is a very good S.S.O.L. team without any of them.

[YFZblu]

Random amazing stat: Boris Diaw is the only player in the history of the NBA to average 6+ assists for an entire season when a teammate averages 10+ assists for an entire season.

[Sundamental]

Los Soles,

I'd love to hear your take on the trade. As far as I'm concerned, any hope of SSOL returning is clearly over in Phoenix. To me, the thing that made the Suns the team I cheered for is quickly fading, soon to be a distant memory. I always wanted to have Steve Nash retire a Sun but now I'd prefer if somehow they could get him to NY. Watched the Knicks on Friday and boy do I miss that style.