Game 17: Toronto Raptors (4-13) @ Phoenix Suns (6-10)

[mkot]

Well it is obvious players are starting to turn, but funny you say, "Namely Nash and Hill", yet those are the two players that would NEVER do something like that.

If any players start to turn, others will soon follow. Look at what happened in SAC and WAS. 1st it was one, then two, soon 3 and 4.

If those SCRUBS are starting to turn, they need to go not Gentry. They have nothing on their side to turn a coach off. As for Nash....didn't it happen before between Nash and Potter? Just by the body language of him on the court and on the sideline, also to the press. Either way, I just don't know how much longer Nash can take all these losing. He hasn't been losing like this since his first two seasons (well, also that unforgettable season with Potter..)

[NiGhtWiSh]

We have to much players with 1yr contract and rubble with longterm millionaire contracts, who don't care about winning. They look for the stats or good time only. That's GM's job. BUT still it's Gentry who makes it rolling. Bah, but he makes it trolling instead. Fire him. He's done.

[RunDogGun]

Kerrsed, sorry for being an idiot and thinking that his team could do something in the west. Can I join the tank?

You had no idea that our normally good shooting team would royally suck at shooting, and no one could have. You had no idea that Gentry would let other teams go on huge runs, and do nothing about it. You had no idea that Gentry would give Brown a green light to keep chucking, and than say he wants more threes.

And the way they were talking up Lopez, many here were buying that story. It's funny, but that was the only spot I wasn't optimistic about. Price and Morris have been bright spots, and if our starters didn't play like total crap, this may have been a good season.

Tanking still isn't the way to go. Whatever record we end up with, Stern will make sure three teams behind us get the first three picks.

[DRK]

Why fire Gentry? It's not the coach, it's the team the management put together! We don't have decent players to score nor to play defense. Gentry is not going to make Lopez a decent rebounder. He's not going to make Frye or JD to shoot the long ball in an acceptable percentage. He's not going to make these guys play decent defense. Not even Pop can coach this team into a respectable defensive team. You have to look at our guys - can't shoot, can't defense, and we have no identity. The 38 PG is our only offense and he's not giving us anything on the other end. I don't know who else can come in and make us a better team.

Unless there's obvious evidence that the players (namely Nash or Hill) are starting to turn him off. Then we talk about firing Gentry.

You read my mind.

What does work though? The man is so desperate that he starts Ronnie Price at SG. Ronnie Price. This team is so badly constructed that in the scheme of things, starting Ronnie Price is probably the best option now.

Look. its obvious that the Suns aren't built to contend or win this year. We are built to save money and preserve capsapce for next season. So Gentry is left with a bunch of scrubs and D-Leaguers to work with. The man is trying his best, but its not easy to get lineups that work when your team is comprised of a bunch of stop-gap fillers.

The only reason why Shannon Bean Brown is playing on this team is because we have no one else! The only reason why he has to play Sideshow Bob is because (tragically) is our only other seven footer. The only reason why Channing Frye is on the court when he's colder than the Arctic Circle is because (again, sadly) he's our only other PF.

It's as if the FO has said to Gentry this season. "All right man. We're saving up cap space for next year. We're going to give you 5 NBA- worthy players. The rest are there to make up the extra 8 roster spots. See if you can somehow make it work." You can't help but feel sorry for Alvin here. The players on this team do not fit who our identity is, and about half the roster shouldn’t even be in an NBA rotation.


Go back to 09/10. We are killing the Spurs in the playoffs, and we just miss out on the NBA Finals. A few weeks later, Amare is gone, and is replaced by Turkoglu, Childress and Warrick. I mean, come on Babby. Josh Childress? In a fast paced offence? After coming out of the dead- slow EuroLeague? You gotta be kidding me. That's like selling a Ferrari, and replacing it with 3 Ford Fiesta's. We are getting KILLED in the early part of the season, and we have no interior defender. Earl Barron is our starting PF, and Childress is our starting center. Now, can you blame Gentry for the losses then? Well? Can you?

Again. It's not the coach's fault for the losses, because this team is clearly not BUILT to win this season. And the last time I checked, coaches don’t build teams.

[RunDogGun]

Well it is obvious players are starting to turn, but funny you say, "Namely Nash and Hill", yet those are the two players that would NEVER do something like that.

If any players start to turn, others will soon follow. Look at what happened in SAC and WAS. 1st it was one, then two, soon 3 and 4.

If those SCRUBS are starting to turn, they need to go not Gentry. They have nothing on their side to turn a coach off. As for Nash....didn't it happen before between Nash and Potter? Just by the body language of him on the court and on the sideline, also to the press. Either way, I just don't know how much longer Nash can take all these losing. He hasn't been losing like this since his first two seasons (well, also that unforgettable season with Potter..)

It just seems like a move Sarver will try to try and show that they're trying something. Gentry doesn't have a big contract, and we can't move any of the new guys until March 1st. Gentry isn't needed for the rebuild, so he is expendable. I think he has been doing a poor job, but that is besides the point.

[mkot]

You don't need decent defenders to play really solid team D. Efficient D.

Defense is all about instinct. You have it or you don't. Guys come in with a reputation of playing good defense remain a good defender throughout their career, guys don't have it just don't - like Amare. As hard as Nash would work on his defense, he remains a poor defender. If you don't have enough defensive minded players on your team, your team D suffer. And if you don't have good individual defender on your team, there will be no discussion of consistant efficient defense. We have Hill - good individual defender and willing to swtich his mind on the defensive end, but his age just wouldn't allow him to do it every night consistently. JD is a good team defender, I'd like to see him with the second unit to play more consistent D but unfortunately guys like Brown and Price don't seem to interested in playing D.

[NiGhtWiSh]

You don't need decent defenders to play really solid team D. Efficient D.

Defense is all about instinct. You have it or you don't. Guys come in with a reputation of playing good defense remain a good defender throughout their career, guys don't have it just don't - like Amare. As hard as Nash would work on his defense, he remains a poor defender. If you don't have enough defensive minded players on your team, your team D suffer. And if you don't have good individual defender on your team, there will be no discussion of consistant efficient defense. We have Hill - good individual defender and willing to swtich his mind on the defensive end, but his age just wouldn't allow him to do it every night consistently. JD is a good team defender, I'd like to see him with the second unit to play more consistent D but unfortunately guys like Brown and Price don't seem to interested in playing D.

1. I like Your basketball.
2. Suns have an defender to build team D around: Gortat, a man in the middle. We can see some efforts of defensive rotation build on him, but it's incosistent. We must continue developing this defence. Up to You, Mr. Gentry. I can see Turner's hand, but still I see to much of Gentry...
3. Stop chucking for 3 - you will stop fastbreak & easy baskets.
4. Play slower, smart offense. Look for advantages. Pass the ball. More motion, backdoor, UCLA cuts, etc. Iso only Gortat or Nash. Draw fouls in the paint. This will give you power. Make you dominant.
5. Look for a trade that will bring more D under the basket. Block the paint, then try to stop shooters.

It's only few fast ideas, not an analysis.

[Frank Lee]

So.... the crumbling and grumbling is internal now. Frustration setting in as the players fully realize they are in for a slow bleed.

Tanking still isn't the way to go. Whatever record we end up with, Stern will make sure three teams behind us get the first three picks.

I dont think so.... may be just the opposite. Stern actually stood up for Sarver during the lockout, disputing the 'hardline' label. And Stern will cut a deal. 'Trade Nash to Orlando. and you will get a top 3 pick'

Pairing up Nash and Howard would be the biggest news of the season. With Stern its all about ratings.

[Qwigglez]

So.... the crumbling and grumbling is internal now. Frustration setting in as the players fully realize they are in for a slow bleed.

Tanking still isn't the way to go. Whatever record we end up with, Stern will make sure three teams behind us get the first three picks.

I dont think so.... may be just the opposite. Stern actually stood up for Sarver during the lockout, disputing the 'hardline' label. And Stern will cut a deal. 'Trade Nash to Orlando. and you will get a top 3 pick'

Pairing up Nash and Howard would be the biggest news of the season. With Stern its all about ratings.

Stop giving hope that the Suns will get a top 3 pick. That should have been last year instead of the Wolves...
Suns getting Derrick Williams would have been huge ratings since he went to college here, the Wolves didn't need him after getting Beasley, their roster was set. It should have been us, instead he rewarded the Cavs who wasted the No 4 pick on another Tyrus Thomas.

[GrantHill]

Kerrsed, sorry for being an idiot and thinking that his team could do something in the west. Can I join the tank?

You had no idea that our normally good shooting team would royally suck at shooting, and no one could have. You had no idea that Gentry would let other teams go on huge runs, and do nothing about it. You had no idea that Gentry would give Brown a green light to keep chucking, and than say he wants more threes.

And the way they were talking up Lopez, many here were buying that story. It's funny, but that was the only spot I wasn't optimistic about. Price and Morris have been bright spots, and if our starters didn't play like total crap, this may have been a good season.

Tanking still isn't the way to go. Whatever record we end up with, Stern will make sure three teams behind us get the first three picks.

I agree. Last season, the lineup Nash-Dudley-Hill-Frye-Gortat played really well and they could compete against most of the teams in the league. Now Dudley and Frye are nearly useless (tough to see) because they don't hit their shots. Dudley tries to score inside though but Frye is just awful. Our bench done well at the beginning of the season but they are not consistent enough like in 2010. Now, there are no scoring threats besides Gortat and Nash. Brown is a chucker and Warrick doesn't play defense. I don't see any chance of improvement unless we pull of a magical trade that brings us some talent.

At the point where are players will find their shot the season might already be over. I'll cheer for our team in every game but if they lose I'm not as disappointed as I used to be because my expections are down after this loss against Toronto. My biggest concern right now are not the playoffs it's the question whether Nash will leave after this season.

[Fo-Real]

Really have to start drinking before.... during... and after the games. This sober **** while watching games is killing me!! "Sure picked the wrong season to stop drinking"!!!

[JohnVancouver]

I am inviting the rocks, bricks and rotten tomatoes when I say, suddenly in the 3rd quarter, i realized i didn't care who won. As they say, a scalper's night off. It just doesn't matter - We're not going anywhere, there is no way to make this team better given who we have on it - the only improvements we could make would be digging in defensively, alike we were beginning to do but have forgotten about, and if guys like Frye and Duds learn how to shoot again. Both are underperforming offensively.

I was glad to see TO end their streak. Tough on a bunch of young guys, and great to see Bargs back. This year he's done what Amar'e always was promising to do - improve his rebounding and defense. he's now an elite scoring big with a decent overall game.

For us, Price is bright spot. Nash is still great - but notice that he's losing his $h*t, going off on the ref like that. He's always been a complainer but I think the level of suck his team is putting him through is getting to him.

Gentry can't win - he's got a JV squad, a hall of fame point guard, a nice rookie PF who is currently going through the grinder that most rookies deal with, and a very good center. That's it. Toronto has more talent than we do ... which says it all, really.


Lopez has punched his ticket to Somewhere Else, and it can't be soon enough for me. his jersey should have CHUMP embroidered across the shoulders. i thought early on, hell - I'd think rather have Aaron Grey than Lopez and when he pulled his Snit and got tossed, he confirmed it for me.

Why on earth we didn't go with the bunch of names we all tossed around before the season - Lighty, SWilliams, etc. instead of Chucky Brown and his pals .... my head hurts.

At least ti will be a short trip on the Tank - less than 50 games to go. Stay drunk, lock up the sharp objects.

[Frank Lee]

Hehehe 'Chucky Brown'



A great big apology and a 'You told me so' to the doomers....

So much of the falsely predicted success hinged upon Frye and Dudley performing at least as well as the 'good' stretch last yr. I'm not a BBall head enough to see if teams are defending them any different , but I'd say its a safe bet the game plan to beat the Suns is to guard the perimeter.... and tighten up on Nash as the only offense we muster is off his drives/dishes. heck, right now, it may be to guard everyone but Frye in hopes he'll shoot. He's made 2 non-three buckets over the last 5 games and is popping it at a scant 28%. That my friends, is pathetic, even for a streaker like Frye.

Now the question becomes of what to do about it.

Has there been any utterances (locally in AZ) from BabbyLon/Sarver/and Blankstare ?

[Years90Suns]

Then we are losing a lot of games, we are getting a lot of cap space for this summer, when there will be no interesting FA to sign.
Westbrook already agreeed on a deal. So did Love. So did Gallinari. Howard and Williams will not come here. What are we doing with all that money?

[mkot]

What are we doing with all that money?

I'm sure Saver already had a plan.

[RunDogGun]

Then we are losing a lot of games, we are getting a lot of cap space for this summer, when there will be no interesting FA to sign.
Westbrook already agreeed on a deal. So did Love. So did Gallinari. Howard and Williams will not come here. What are we doing with all that money?

We have a bunch of options. If there is a guy we can get through FA, cool. There may be a bunch of teams willing to get rid of guys just sothey can get under the cap enough to court DWill and DHoward. We may be able to get someone decent players through that. We'll have a good pick. We could always wait until the next offseason, sign some of those young guys that I mentioned this past summer, like Lighty, Hopson, SWilliams (not sure how long he signed with Dallas), Garrett from Iowa, suck for another year, and look for FAs in 2013, but now with another good pick.

It will take a few years and those picks aren't guaranteed starters either, so brace yourself for some suckiness. After that, we'll see how building through part draft and part FA goes. If that is the case, we better be getting together the best scouting staff we have ever had. Maybe take some scouts from SA, they almost always scout some great players.

[rsavaj]

Why fire Gentry? It's not the coach, it's the team the management put together! We don't have decent players to score nor to play defense. Gentry is not going to make Lopez a decent rebounder. He's not going to make Frye or JD to shoot the long ball in an acceptable percentage. He's not going to make these guys play decent defense. Not even Pop can coach this team into a respectable defensive team. You have to look at our guys - can't shoot, can't defense, and we have no identity. The 38 PG is our only offense and he's not giving us anything on the other end. I don't know who else can come in and make us a better team.

Unless there's obvious evidence that the players (namely Nash or Hill) are starting to turn him off. Then we talk about firing Gentry.

You read my mind.

What does work though? The man is so desperate that he starts Ronnie Price at SG. Ronnie Price. This team is so badly constructed that in the scheme of things, starting Ronnie Price is probably the best option now.

Look. its obvious that the Suns aren't built to contend or win this year. We are built to save money and preserve capsapce for next season. So Gentry is left with a bunch of scrubs and D-Leaguers to work with. The man is trying his best, but its not easy to get lineups that work when your team is comprised of a bunch of stop-gap fillers.

The only reason why Shannon Bean Brown is playing on this team is because we have no one else! The only reason why he has to play Sideshow Bob is because (tragically) is our only other seven footer. The only reason why Channing Frye is on the court when he's colder than the Arctic Circle is because (again, sadly) he's our only other PF.

It's as if the FO has said to Gentry this season. "All right man. We're saving up cap space for next year. We're going to give you 5 NBA- worthy players. The rest are there to make up the extra 8 roster spots. See if you can somehow make it work." You can't help but feel sorry for Alvin here. The players on this team do not fit who our identity is, and about half the roster shouldn’t even be in an NBA rotation.


Go back to 09/10. We are killing the Spurs in the playoffs, and we just miss out on the NBA Finals. A few weeks later, Amare is gone, and is replaced by Turkoglu, Childress and Warrick. I mean, come on Babby. Josh Childress? In a fast paced offence? After coming out of the dead- slow EuroLeague? You gotta be kidding me. That's like selling a Ferrari, and replacing it with 3 Ford Fiesta's. We are getting KILLED in the early part of the season, and we have no interior defender. Earl Barron is our starting PF, and Childress is our starting center. Now, can you blame Gentry for the losses then? Well? Can you?

Again. It's not the coach's fault for the losses, because this team is clearly not BUILT to win this season. And the last time I checked, coaches don’t build teams.

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