Revisiting the Joe Johnson 05' Contract Situation

[DirtyDez]

Sorry to delve into the past (and just leave if it depresses you) but i was listening to the radio today in Phoenix and it was basically a segment venting on Sarver. The hosts and callers were talking about ownership cheaply letting Joe Johnson walk after the 04-05' season that resulted in a WCF run. A summer earlier we had given Nash a 6/63M contract and were paying Marion 10+M a year as well. Also, after Amare's dominant playoff run we wanted to lock him up (which happened about a month 1/2 after JJ was sign&traded to ATL).

So the next season we were paying 3 all stars (our 3 best players) around 35 million and Bryan Colangelo offered JJ his first extension. IIRC Johnson was borderline offended at first and then complained about wanting a bigger role in the offense which wasn't in Phoenix. Atlanta then offered him 70 million and both sides agreed to a Sign & Trade sending Diaw and some picks our way.

So... I couldn't find any info to Sarver/Colangelo's initial offer, does anyone know the specifics? Since it seems he wanted out after negotiations why are people still complaining about ownership's role in him leaving? Lastly, how would you have liked to have seen the situation handled? I mean the guy was in his prime, he played hurt and averaged 17/5/4 his last two seasons here plus he became a borderline elite SG in ATL. Should we have given him the 70M, taken the cap hit and never recieved Diaw and a few picks that busted? How would have replacing some of those role guys we signed instead (Raja, Jones, Diaw) with JJ resulted from 06-10 in your opinion?

/GoodOleDaysRant

[DRK]

Definitely would've won a championship. The real question is how many.

A lineup of prime

Nash
JJ
Marion
Amare
Kurt

is just scary.

[DirtyDez]

Definitely would've won a championship. The real question is how many.

A lineup of prime

Nash
JJ
Marion
Amare
Kurt

is just scary.

The issue with that is all 5 of those players would've put us over the cap, it would've been damn near impossible to put together a decent bench. Amare's extension didn't kick in until 06-07' so FO might've been able to get creative and make it work. We probably could've traded some 1st rounders for some quality bench pieces and maybe use the MLE. Our salary might've surpassed the 75 million mark in the later years of all those guys contracts.

[RunDogGun]

I want to say it was five years at forty-five, and I think he wanted fifty-five. Or we offered fifty, either way, it wasn't that far off the summer before he was traded, and that is why many people were mad. And it started the whole Sarver is cheap thing.

Which we later effed up trying to not pull a JJ with Diaw, and ended up paying him way more than what he produced. In his case, we should have waited that year to see if Amare and he could co-exist on the cort together. But we didn't, and Boris came into training camp over weight and out of shape. Just another great GM job by the great D'Antoni. Combine that extension with the Banks signing, and you can see the cause that led to the trading of KT and two picks, and Jones with one pick. Putting us in the crappy situation we are in right now.

I didn't mind the JJ trade, until ATL drafted Horford because it was a top three protected, and of course Stern made sure the pick was number three. Because of Horford and the rest of the crew, they made the playoffs the next year giving us the fifteen pick. Which we gladly spent on the hunching vulture we kindly cal Lowpez, Slowpez, Fropez, Boy Blunder, well you get the idea. We could have had Hibbert, DA Jordan, or a few others. Plus that was the year our pick went to the Sonics/OKC and they picked Ibaka.

[DirtyDez]

I want to say it was five years at forty-five, and I think he wanted fifty-five. Or we offered fifty, either way, it wasn't that far off the summer before he was traded, and that is why many people were mad. And it started the whole Sarver is cheap thing.

Which we later effed up trying to not pull a JJ with Diaw, and ended up paying him way more than what he produced. In his case, we should have waited that year to see if Amare and he could co-exist on the cort together. But we didn't, and Boris came into training camp over weight and out of shape. Just another great GM job by the great D'Antoni. Combine that extension with the Banks signing, and you can see the cause that led to the trading of KT and two picks, and Jones with one pick. Putting us in the crappy situation we are in right now.

I didn't mind the JJ trade, until ATL drafted Horford because it was a top three protected, and of course Stern made sure the pick was number three. Because of Horford and the rest of the crew, they made the playoffs the next year giving us the fifteen pick. Which we gladly spent on the hunching vulture we kindly cal Lowpez, Slowpez, Fropez, Boy Blunder, well you get the idea. We could have had Hibbert, DA Jordan, or a few others. Plus that was the year our pick went to the Sonics/OKC and they picked Ibaka.

That's the in-depth info i was looking for.

I wonder if our offer in the summer of 04' was before or after we signed Nash. I'm guessing before. When JJ turned it down we had some financial freedom for Steve. I believe it was that year we dumped the huge contracts of Marbury and Penny on the Knicks freeing up huge cap space. For some reason that's a fuzzy time in my memory.

[garrick]

From what I remember the first contract extension was somewhat affordable and JJ wanted more but Sarver told him to play hard the following season and to see what he could get the next season which was where the mistake was because we would have been able to have signed him with a very affordable deal that wouldn't have broken the bank.
JJ is one hell of a lucky dude because he was awarded a very generous max offer from Atlanta who was desperate for any kind of star power and JJ was the only one available then with the recent contract extension from Atlanta who overpaid him yet again with a 119 million dollar contract.
He's a good player but not deserving of receiving a max level offer from any team as he is nowhere near the talent as the elite stars like LBJ, Wade, Howard and Kobe.


http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=19&ved=0CF8QFjAIOAo&url=http%3A%2F%2Fdimemag.com%2F2011%2F07%2Fthe-best-team-that-never-was%2F&ei=58wiT_DwLuqTiQeytOjeBA&usg=AFQjCNEi3uqF7tG-bmWeFjSh5dOCnQJfOA

A commenter on this post says JJ wanted 50 mil but I seem to remember it being much less. I remember the figures were on AZcentral's forum but I don't know if that thing is still active or not. It was a pretty crappy forum imo.

[Risensun]

While Miami and Boston have their big 3 the Suns would have had a big 4. Nash, Amare, Marion all at one point with the Suns warranted MVP consideration and JJ was a superstar. That starting lineup probably could have beaten the East All Stars consistently for many years. It's a shame what could have been...

[Jdiddy701]

Call me crazy but I rather have Jason Richardson. He's a better teammate and doesn't care for money. With him, we could have had a great bench, still.

[YFZblu]

From what I remember the first contract extension was somewhat affordable and JJ wanted more but Sarver told him to play hard the following season and to see what he could get the next season which was where the mistake was because we would have been able to have signed him with a very affordable deal that wouldn't have broken the bank.
JJ is one hell of a lucky dude because he was awarded a very generous max offer from Atlanta who was desperate for any kind of star power and JJ was the only one available then with the recent contract extension from Atlanta who overpaid him yet again with a 119 million dollar contract.
He's a good player but not deserving of receiving a max level offer from any team as he is nowhere near the talent as the elite stars like LBJ, Wade, Howard and Kobe.


http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=19&ved=0CF8QFjAIOAo&url=http%3A%2F%2Fdimemag.com%2F2011%2F07%2Fthe-best-team-that-never-was%2F&ei=58wiT_DwLuqTiQeytOjeBA&usg=AFQjCNEi3uqF7tG-bmWeFjSh5dOCnQJfOA

A commenter on this post says JJ wanted 50 mil but I seem to remember it being much less. I remember the figures were on AZcentral's forum but I don't know if that thing is still active or not. It was a pretty crappy forum imo.

Nice post. IIRC JJ wanted 45 or something close to that.

[rsavaj]

I thought JJ wanted 50, Sarver offered 45.

[phx#7]

On the extension JJ wanted a 6 year 50mil deal, Suns refused to pay more than 6 year 45mil and even stated that JJ will be a RFA so if he proves his worth they would pay him.

I don't think the Suns made an offer in '05. I recall stories about JJ's agent trying to get a hold of the Suns and when he finally spoke to Sarver, Sarver basically cussed him out. I couldn't find the article I was looking for but here is a link to JJs perspective on how things went down(linking to another message board because apparently azcentral no longer has the article).

http://www.basketballforum.com/phoenix- ... tions.html

[DirtyDez]

On the extension JJ wanted a 6 year 50mil deal, Suns refused to pay more than 6 year 45mil and even stated that JJ will be a RFA so if he proves his worth they would pay him.

I don't think the Suns made an offer in '05. I recall stories about JJ's agent trying to get a hold of the Suns and when he finally spoke to Sarver, Sarver basically cussed him out. I couldn't find the article I was looking for but here is a link to JJs perspective on how things went down(linking to another message board because apparently azcentral no longer has the article).

http://www.basketballforum.com/phoenix- ... tions.html

Yeah it's very tough to know what really went down. According to Wiki Joe wanted a bigger role and thought he'd be better off in Atlanta and his agent asked the Suns not to match their offer. Clearly he wanted the offense in his hands and that wouldn't have been the case in Phoenix. He's not a 3rd option type of player.

I was looking for some threads on Realgm around that time but it won't go back that far.

[pidi]

i think it wasn´t the money. i think joe wanted to be the man on the team..

[_Nashoholic_]

He would have stayed with PHX if Colangelo was owner