The Demise of the Suns

[RunDogGun]

To piggyback my comment, the point guard spot is such a confidence game. It is so tough to go from a starting spot, to a bench, to being completely phased out of the game, which is what happened to Banks. I believe that if we made Goran a bench player again, and later phased him out, he would be out of the league in five years as well.

Banks shot 50/40/79 when he first went to MIA, scoring 9.5 and dishing out 3 assists in 21 minutes. Much better than he did in PHX. He also played much better before he came to PHX, so one could easily argue that Mike killed Marcus's game.

Also when we traded Banks to MIA, they already had three point guards, and when he went to TOR, they already had four.

[Frank Lee]

No doubts we have had a rocky road under the Sarver regime. He made mistakes with the way he handled things and people and as it became apparent that his ego was equal to or greater than the ones working for him... well... worlds collided. Exit the CJellos... D'Ant... Kerr and all those remnants surrounding them. There were a lot of wasted investments.... millions spent with little to no return. Sarver learned his own lesson there too. But, in his mind, it was his money, and his mistake.

We are now in a transition of ideology on how this team should be constructed... burying the old notion of SSOL has been difficult. I don't know if the Babbler and the Blanker are up to the task, but it certainly is now known, that as far as egos go... Lance has a biggie too and he makes no bones about his intentions to build this team his way. His way has made the highway well traveled.

We can only sit back and speculate about WTF they have in store for the next yr or two. At least they have been true to their intention of gathering future assets (picks) and keeping room for free agent additions. They also aren't afraid to trade either, if you choose to find some truth in these recent rumors.

Funny how so many here come up with deal after deal, and then when stuff starts coming down the pipe, the pantywadding escalates.

We need changes... and only time (hindsight) will judge the maneuvering.


As far as D'Ant and Banks go.... there was no reason to sign him for 4 yrs. He was pouting in his room as one of the last, if not the last so called valuable FA left. We could of had him for half the dough, half the time. I am hoping the past practice of having to make a deal to 'make up for a deal' is over.

[RunDogGun]

To me, when a business racks up a $200 million debt, that would be a huge cause for a demise.

[gaspar]

And here it is, our monthly "shoulda woulda coulda" thread...

[rsavaj]

RDG, let's just agree to disagree on the exact specifics of how Mike was a bad GM, and agree on the general idea that Mike was a pretty bad GM, lol.

[Sun Scorched]

And here it is, our monthly "shoulda woulda coulda" thread...

Hahaha - so true.

[RunDogGun]

RDG, let's just agree to disagree on the exact specifics of how Mike was a bad GM, and agree on the general idea that Mike was a pretty bad GM, lol.

I don't think we disagree on Mike's poor GMing (too be fair, it was his first time). I think we disagree on Banks's worth, how he was used, and his abilities.

[lilfishi22]

You can't insulate Kerr from that deal. Yes, he had a directive from Sarver, but no one told Kerr to grease up and bend over like he did. He even said that was his worst move/trade and chalked it up to inexperience. Thanks Steve. To me that was the absolute worst deal that effected us the most.... He deserved a pay cut for that.

You guys blame Sarver for selling the picks.... but come on... look who was the coach. You really think Sarver was acting in a bubble ? Further more, outside of Rondo, I don't think any of those picks amounted to anything. Sergio was one wasn't he...? Whoopeee. I know some here will say 'What about Ibaka?' ... sure that was a cost cutting move... but again... that was pizzpoor negotiating. And if you remember.... the Deal for the 23rd pick (rondo) was the pick and Brian Grant for 3 mill. That was a net 5+ million. (Remember the carcass that was Grant ? Great pick up eh?) Yeah... passing off Rondo was a hind sighting mistake.... but 20+ other teams made the same mistake too. There are always dudes that fall through the drafting cracks. It is a spin on the roulette wheel.

Face it....We had Nash and Nash was this team. None of his (Nash's) GMs did anything short of make his court time more difficult. Pike, JuJones, the amazing Sean Marks? You could list probably 10 other worthless pick ups made by CJello, Kerr-plunk and D'cAnt. The best they did for him was adding a wore out Jim Jackson and of course, dirty Kurt.

Nash made every coach and GM look a lot better than he really was. He alone masked their inadequacies. And damned if we weren't but an injury or two and a suspension away from the finals. Thats bad luck as much as anything.

Look, I am not a Sarver apologist...I don't particularly care for his methods and in general, his persona...
but you guys like to 5h!t in bag, light it and set it all on his doorstep.

While I agree Kerr made mistakes in his time as GM, I felt he left with a solid roster. Whether that was all Nash or not, it's hard to argue that there wasn't some solid talent on and off the bench (young and vets). That said, it does come down to Sarver who hires these guys and he hired guys who allowed him to play banker/GM in the background while guys like Kerr and Blanks (through Babs) played the role of yesmen.

For my money.... the biggest mistake was not hiring a solid GM once BC took his smokey mirror to Toronto.

+100000

[EB2]

RDG, let's just agree to disagree on the exact specifics of how Mike was a bad GM, and agree on the general idea that Mike was a pretty bad GM, lol.

I don't think we disagree on Mike's poor GMing (too be fair, it was his first time). I think we disagree on Banks's worth, how he was used, and his abilities.

That's exactly it, he had none...

[RunDogGun]

RDG, let's just agree to disagree on the exact specifics of how Mike was a bad GM, and agree on the general idea that Mike was a pretty bad GM, lol.

I don't think we disagree on Mike's poor GMing (too be fair, it was his first time). I think we disagree on Banks's worth, how he was used, and his abilities.

That's exactly it, he had none...

That is complete bull. He did quite well on the defensive side, and also did well at scoring. But oh well, I guess many will just exaggerate this to death, instead of using anything that resembles a good argument.

[EB2]

That is complete bull. He did quite well on the defensive side, and also did well at scoring. But oh well, I guess many will just exaggerate this to death, instead of using anything that resembles a good argument.

He scored well...I don't think so.

[RunDogGun]

That is complete bull. He did quite well on the defensive side, and also did well at scoring. But oh well, I guess many will just exaggerate this to death, instead of using anything that resembles a good argument.

He scored well...I don't think so.

Well that is almost an argument. Before he came to us he was scoring 48/36/78 not bad for a guard that can't score. And right after he left us, he was 50/40/79. So I'm not sure where you are basing your argument. Maybe just giving me an opinion, in hopes that I don't research it.

I'm not saying he was worth the contract he got, but he wasn't given a chance in PHX. When he started in Minny right before he came to us, he did both the things I mentioned quite well. And right after he left us, he also did well in those areas.

We've all seen what a coach can do to both instill confidence, and cripple it. Mike did the latter with Banks.

[phrazbit]

Well that is almost an argument. Before he came to us he was scoring 48/36/78 not bad for a guard that can't score. And right after he left us, he was 50/40/79. So I'm not sure where you are basing your argument. Maybe just giving me an opinion, in hopes that I don't research it.

I'm not saying he was worth the contract he got, but he wasn't given a chance in PHX. When he started in Minny right before he came to us, he did both the things I mentioned quite well. And right after he left us, he also did well in those areas.

We've all seen what a coach can do to both instill confidence, and cripple it. Mike did the latter with Banks.

50/40/79... over whooping 12 games!

Dont let an absurdly small sample size derail your baseless argument. His percentages the following year were 38/14/66.

Banks career (and current lack there of) speaks for itself.

[RunDogGun]

Cool, don't let his lack of minutes affect you terrible comeback. I pointed out the time right before he came here and got minutes, and right after he left.

Baseless argument? My argument was he can score, and he played good defense. Get over yourself Spraz.

Maybe I should say, if only God coached him, or some absurd childish retort like that.

[RunDogGun]

By the way smart guy, he had more minutes played in those twelve games than he had in the twenty-two games you brought up. (259 to 206). But your example is much better, right?