Game 60: Phoenix Suns(20-39) @ Atlanta Hawks (33-23)

[JMac1]

Nice job dodging every argument with "I don't care about that other stuff! Stop rationalizing stuff with STATS!"

To summarize, you refuse to consider the 172 games he played before this good 5 game stretch. I think that's ridiculous. You don't think it's ridiculous.

Let me say that again.

He sucked for 172 games.
He's played well for 5 games.

But I'm the ridiculous one, right? I guess you probably thought Isaiah Thomas made a great decision when he gave Jerome James that huge contract after his great 7 game series against San Antonio all those years ago.

If you were a manager somewhere and you recommended an employee for a promotion, let's say, after he was an inefficient, unproductive employee for 90% of his time with the company, but maybe he just happened to nail a really solid presentation this last week...you would be laughed out of the office.

You are taking a (literal) 3% slice of his body of work and judging him off that. You refuse to consider the other 97% because it doesn't fit your narrative.

And I like how in the same sentence, you say "they took him #4 for a reason" and then bash their decision making capabilities a few words later. That makes a ton of sense.

I want Wes to do well, because that means we'll finally have a decent backup wing on this roster, and we need one in the worst way.

But I'm not going to say, "hey! he's like JJ! he's like Sefolosha! no wait, he's even better than Thabo because he can shoot!" after 5 damn games.

If he were playing in Minny, you'd have a point............BUT different place, different system, different environment, different co-workers, different attitude, different maturity, so far equals different outcome.

The variables have changed my friend and so has the outcome.....but hey, don't believe your lying eyes

[Moochthemonkey]

Nice job dodging every argument with "I don't care about that other stuff! Stop rationalizing stuff with STATS!"

To summarize, you refuse to consider the 172 games he played before this good 5 game stretch. I think that's ridiculous. You don't think it's ridiculous.

Let me say that again.

He sucked for 172 games.
He's played well for 5 games.

But I'm the ridiculous one, right? I guess you probably thought Isaiah Thomas made a great decision when he gave Jerome James that huge contract after his great 7 game series against San Antonio all those years ago.

If you were a manager somewhere and you recommended an employee for a promotion, let's say, after he was an inefficient, unproductive employee for 90% of his time with the company, but maybe he just happened to nail a really solid presentation this last week...you would be laughed out of the office.

You are taking a (literal) 3% slice of his body of work and judging him off that. You refuse to consider the other 97% because it doesn't fit your narrative.

And I like how in the same sentence, you say "they took him #4 for a reason" and then bash their decision making capabilities a few words later. That makes a ton of sense.

I want Wes to do well, because that means we'll finally have a decent backup wing on this roster, and we need one in the worst way.

But I'm not going to say, "hey! he's like JJ! he's like Sefolosha! no wait, he's even better than Thabo because he can shoot!" after 5 damn games.

If he were playing in Minny, you'd have a point............BUT different place, different system, different environment, different co-workers, different attitude, different maturity, so far equals different outcome.

The variables have changed my friend and so has the outcome.....but hey, don't believe your lying eyes

Still ignoring what rsavaj said.

What you are basing your argument off of is a very small sample size of 5 GAMES

Beasley has had 5 good games in a Suns uniform as well...the difference is Johnson has had five good games in a shorter time-span.

It's equally short-sighted to say that Johnson is a bust based on what he did in Minnesota in a different system, as it is to glorify his progress just using the last FIVE GAMES.

And just because someone doesn't agree with you in entirety, doesn't mean we hate the guy, please stop that, we're just not jumping to conclusions so quickly. Besides who can hate a guy with a smile like his?

[RunSunRun]

Did you guys not learn from the Vince Carter "fans" while he was with us, absolutely nothing you can say through statistics and logical arguments will sway their undying slurping,

I think we all want Wes to succeed with the Suns and live up to that #4 pick, but let's give the kid some more burn before we crown him. He may not even be with us next season for all we know.

[Frank Lee]

Wes likely appreciates the opportunity here... it is good to feel wanted. This may be the first time since draft day WesJo is getting some love. He is a very good athlete. this may come down to who/what we can get for Dudley if he is tabled. I would think 2-3 per X 3 with a team option/buyout would be the high mark. . He really is in no position to gamble in free agency. I think both parties will know at the end of the season if he is coming back or not.

[JMac1]

Nice job dodging every argument with "I don't care about that other stuff! Stop rationalizing stuff with STATS!"

To summarize, you refuse to consider the 172 games he played before this good 5 game stretch. I think that's ridiculous. You don't think it's ridiculous.

Let me say that again.

He sucked for 172 games.
He's played well for 5 games.

But I'm the ridiculous one, right? I guess you probably thought Isaiah Thomas made a great decision when he gave Jerome James that huge contract after his great 7 game series against San Antonio all those years ago.

If you were a manager somewhere and you recommended an employee for a promotion, let's say, after he was an inefficient, unproductive employee for 90% of his time with the company, but maybe he just happened to nail a really solid presentation this last week...you would be laughed out of the office.

You are taking a (literal) 3% slice of his body of work and judging him off that. You refuse to consider the other 97% because it doesn't fit your narrative.

And I like how in the same sentence, you say "they took him #4 for a reason" and then bash their decision making capabilities a few words later. That makes a ton of sense.

I want Wes to do well, because that means we'll finally have a decent backup wing on this roster, and we need one in the worst way.

But I'm not going to say, "hey! he's like JJ! he's like Sefolosha! no wait, he's even better than Thabo because he can shoot!" after 5 damn games.

If he were playing in Minny, you'd have a point............BUT different place, different system, different environment, different co-workers, different attitude, different maturity, so far equals different outcome.

The variables have changed my friend and so has the outcome.....but hey, don't believe your lying eyes

Still ignoring what rsavaj said.

What you are basing your argument off of is a very small sample size of 5 GAMES

Beasley has had 5 good games in a Suns uniform as well...the difference is Johnson has had five good games in a shorter time-span.

It's equally short-sighted to say that Johnson is a bust based on what he did in Minnesota in a different system, as it is to glorify his progress just using the last FIVE GAMES.

And just because someone doesn't agree with you in entirety, doesn't mean we hate the guy, please stop that, we're just not jumping to conclusions so quickly. Besides who can hate a guy with a smile like his?

First off, who is we? I read a quote of rsavaj in one forum and thought it was peculiar; then I read another quote that read; if Wes played, we were doomed. After Wes was instrumental in the SAS victory, rsavaj still appears to be giving him the shaft. I see that as hating (not giving credit were credit is due).

Secondly, I never expounded on Wes' abilities as being any more than what they have been. If some posters believe he has JJ or Sefo in him, it is their right, at least based on the playing time he has been receiving and what he has accomplished with that. I think those posters have the right to feel as they feel based on potential and the last 5 games.

Third, you and rsavaj please let me know when I or any other poster can consider when Wes has turned the corner, because we are just not that insightful

[JMac1]

Did you guys not learn from the Vince Carter "fans" while he was with us, absolutely nothing you can say through statistics and logical arguments will sway their undying slurping,

I think we all want Wes to succeed with the Suns and live up to that #4 pick, but let's give the kid some more burn before we crown him. He may not even be with us next season for all we know.

See that is what I am talking about? Who here has "crowned" him. Wes is looking good right now is pretty much the positives I heard/hear. The nay sayers turn that into "crowning" him...wow! As a Suns fan you can't feel good about any player, you can't feel good about winning, you can't feel good about jack without someone saying you are wrong. Critique my assessments, but don't tell me how I should feel. RIGHT NOW, TODAY, the last five games, since he has been getting burn for the first time this season; Wes is looking very good......no denying that. If you want to wait to believe that, that is on you.

I don't remember fans of VC, I remember one guy. .

[Moochthemonkey]

First off, who is we? I read a quote of rsavaj in one forum and thought it was peculiar; then I read another quote that read; if Wes played, we were doomed. After Wes was instrumental in the SAS victory, rsavaj still appears to be giving him the shaft. I see that as hating (not giving credit were credit is due).

Are you sure rsavaj's comment "if Wes plays that guarantees a loss" was not said tounge-in-cheek? "We" refers to the collective group that doesn't share your opinion. In other thread you mentioned a fan was "hating" because he compared Johnson to Sefolosha. Hating typically entails a general strong dislike, not just undervaluing or underrating something.

Secondly, I never expounded on Wes' abilities as being any more than what they have been. If some posters believe he has JJ or Sefo in him, it is their right, at least based on the playing time he has been receiving and what he has accomplished with that. I think those posters have the right to feel as they feel based on potential and the last 5 games.

My post was intended for the people who were quick to say that he was Shawn Marion, JJ, or more appropriately that he was living up to his potential as the fourth pick. If you are not part of this group, then I didn't mean to direct the post at you.

Third, you and rsavaj please let me know when I or any other poster can consider when Wes has turned the corner, because we are just not that insightful

[/quote]

The more games against different teams the more genuine of an assessment one can make. There is no finite amount of games; I'd say 25+ is fair game. And I never said you weren't insightful.