OT: so who here is really into science?

[mybloodisorange]

So if I could attempt to distill down what you said doctor- I see your point if there isnt enough matter to continually feed the BH then it shivels and dies. Don't you think its even possible that a quasar in a matter dense section of the universe can continue to grow to stages we have not yet witnessed? I know the amount of gravity needed to cancel the effects of accelerated expansion and force the universe to begin contracting would be incomprehensibly large but im just musing.

Do you have any thoughts on how super massive singularities might result in a tear of space time resulting in a big (or little) bang?

[sunskerr]

So if I could attempt to distill down what you said doctor- I see your point if there isnt enough matter to continually feed the BH then it shivels and dies. Don't you think its even possible that a quasar in a matter dense section of the universe can continue to grow to stages we have not yet witnessed? I know the amount of gravity needed to cancel the effects of accelerated expansion and force the universe to begin contracting would be incomprehensibly large but im just musing.

Do you have any thoughts on how super massive singularities might result in a tear of space time resulting in a big (or little) bang?

It's amazing to speculate the possibilities, because these singularities are the most similar thing to what existed before the big bang.

I think that is outside our capabilities. What you're suggesting would be something like a white hole, which is again purely speculative.

[lilfishi22]

So if I could attempt to distill down what you said doctor- I see your point if there isnt enough matter to continually feed the BH then it shivels and dies. Don't you think its even possible that a quasar in a matter dense section of the universe can continue to grow to stages we have not yet witnessed? I know the amount of gravity needed to cancel the effects of accelerated expansion and force the universe to begin contracting would be incomprehensibly large but im just musing.

Do you have any thoughts on how super massive singularities might result in a tear of space time resulting in a big (or little) bang?

It's amazing to speculate the possibilities, because these singularities are the most similar thing to what existed before the big bang.

I think that is outside our capabilities. What you're suggesting would be something like a white hole, which is again purely speculative.

I agree. Beyond observation, anything past black holes is pure speculation and theory.

[mybloodisorange]

Theory comes after hypothesis; and im nowhere near any type of finished hypothesis. I'm more just compiling ideas at this point and searching for ties. If there turns out to be something with potential then I can use that to start building a framework for a hypothesis. And honestly my real life is crazy as hell atm I may see a space elevator built before I have any progress on this.

[Dr Manute]

Don't you think its even possible that a quasar in a matter dense section of the universe can continue to grow to stages we have not yet witnessed? I know the amount of gravity needed to cancel the effects of accelerated expansion and force the universe to begin contracting would be incomprehensibly large but im just musing.

I don’t know if it is even theoretically possible for a black hole to grow to the size needed to suck all mass in the universe into itself. Remember if the theory of black hole radiation is correct, then black holes are expected to shrink and evaporate over time because they lose mass by the emission of photons and other particles. I think more evidence and physical observations are needed before a hypothesis such as this can be entertained.

Do you have any thoughts on how super massive singularities might result in a tear of space time resulting in a big (or little) bang?

Can a super massive singularity result in a tear of space time resulting in a big (or little) bang? – If you mean creation of a universe when you say big bang then the answer is No. If the universe created by the big bang is an inflating universe (like ours) then it could not be created by a singularity.

http://scienceblogs.com/startswithabang ... rt-from-a/

[mybloodisorange]

I understand that black holes die off when deprived of fuel. But what if a super massive quasar existed in a matter dense section of the universe, enough to continually force feed it until it reaches a new size we havent yet observed? Or are you saying there are no areas of the universe densly packed with matter enough to keep the wheel turning? I was just wondering if it formed in an area where there are clusters of matter if it could eventually reach a size large enough to start pulling in increasingly more distant matter and energy in. And yes I know it would have to be rediculously large but if you are saying the distances are just too vast compared to the size and gravity needed to bridge that gap then that is a problem.

[mybloodisorange]

[sunskerr]

I understand that black holes die off when deprived of fuel. But what if a super massive quasar existed in a matter dense section of the unverse, enough to coninually force feed it until it reaches a new size we havent yet observed? Or are you saying there are no areas of the universe densly packed with matter enough to keep the wheel turning? I was just wondering if it formed in an area where there are clusters of matter if it could eventually reach a size large enough to start pulling in increasingly more distant matter and energy in. And yes I know it would have to be rediculously large but if you are saying the distances are just too vast compared to the size and gravity needed to bridge that gap then that is a problem.

Even if there was so much matter in an area, the distances between galaxies (especially groups of), rate of expansion and the amount of time it would take a black hole (stellar or supermassive) to "feed" on all that matter, would make such an event impossible. Also, even the early stages of the universe, when matter was more dense, the matter did not collapse into (a) blackhole(s).

You might be interested in reading about the ages of the universe, which are described in detail in a book of the same name. There's a period called the "Black Hole Era", in which the expansion of the Universe has been driven so far that the only recognizable structures left are black holes. Sobering stuff.

[mybloodisorange]

I'm familiar with the ages thats why I was wondering since they are bigger now than ever if they could eventually get so big that well we've been over this Ever since I was a kid the relationship between stars and black holes fascinated me. My parents werent really scientifically literate I was just VERY lucky I had that one quiet really smart super cool uncle who use to tell me all this crazy science stuff and we would watch cosmos together. If it wasnt for him who knows; its interesting how my understanding of science actually changed the way I saw the world even at a young age.

I appericiate your guys' honest nontrolling responses btw; I love just picking peoples brains-well people smarter than me anyway lol. But I didnt want to completely hijack the science thread with just that one topic-if you guys use facebook like most people you gotta check this page out its my favorite-

http://www.facebook.com/#!/IFeakingLoveScience

[mirrornick]

I really like this board, lot's of interesting people who are similar to me ( knowledgeable )

[mybloodisorange]

That mans hair is a scientific achievement in and of itself.

[mybloodisorange]

[mybloodisorange]

I just noticed that everything here was physical science.

Bertrand Russel was one of my favorite philsophers and heroes.

But unfortunately he died the year before I was born and most people already know him. One of my more current (ie living) favorite thinkers is Steven Pinker. He's a Harvard College Professor specializing in areas such as language and evolutionary psychology. Amazing man.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooTcyioNIZ4&feature=related[/youtube]

[mybloodisorange]

http://www.dmanlt.com/comments.asp?getcommentsfor=2739&titlestring=The%20Warp%20Drive%20Could%20Become%20Science%20Fact

Can we just all agree that humans are awesome now? Once we can get a huge power source figured out we are off to the stars so to speak. Hopefully by the end of the century we can start serious exploration.

[mybloodisorange]

http://www.redorbit.com/news/space/1112702520/astronomers-measure-black-hole-radius-for-the-first-time/

New black hole breakthrough!

[bigfoot]

[mybloodisorange]

http://www.nature.com/news/did-a-hyper- ... se-1.13743

[Dragic13]

TEMPE, AZ—Claiming he was initially excited at the prospect of playing for a legitimate championship contender, new Phoenix Suns center Shaquille O'Neal admitted Monday that, upon reading about the phenomenon of massive stellar explosions popularly known as supernovas, he is now terrified of the entire organization.

"I have emerged from my astronomical studies a much more educated man, a learned man, and yes—a frightened man. I am now a sage of the supernova," O'Neal said during a combination press conference and PowerPoint presentation at an Arizona State University lecture hall. "If I would have known being a Sun meant being a part of a system where gravity could collapse, causing my radiant celestial body to explode in an event 10 times brighter than an ordinary Phoenix Sun—or worse, dematerialize into a neutron star or possibly a black hole—I would have never agreed to the trade."

"I have a family to think of," continued a visually tense O'Neal, who later stated that, because supernovas occur in our galaxy once every 40 to 50 years, the Suns, having joined the league in 1968, are "due for a big one."

While O'Neal said that simply being a part of the Suns' runaway-nuclear-fusion-reaction style of play would be frightening enough, he added that learning how an aging supergiant star typically ends its life cycle in a violent explosion was a profoundly terrifying experience. The 35-year-old center, who considers himself a super-giant star in the twilight of his career, has refused to go anywhere near his new teammates.

"Like Superman, I receive my energy from the Suns," O'Neal said. "I'm scared I will not be able to flourish in an environment where there is a risk that the Suns' supply of hydrogen could be exhausted, which would cause the core of the Suns to collapse into the center—in this case, me—and create a rise in temperature and pressure that would become great enough to ignite helium and then start a helium-to-carbon fusion cycle."

"Not even electron degeneracy pressure is enough to stop a supernova when that happens to a Sun," O'Neal added. "I don't even know what that means, and I am the Big Astronomer. But it scares me."

The former league MVP said he began reading about supernovas upon being informed by his 7-year-old son Shareef that the sun is actually a star, a fact that O'Neal said "intrigued [him] greatly." Upon further research, O'Neal was reportedly shocked by the possibility that carbon fusion could be ignited within the team's center, causing an explosion that could exceed over 100 billion Kelvins in temperature.

"I have been involved in many hotly contested battles in my playing career and have come out an even stronger warrior, but 100 billion Kelvins is a lot even for the Diesel," O'Neal said, showing the various media present a slide of the Crab Nebula, which he called a "frightening" example of what could be left of him after a supernova occurs. "If I were still in my 20s, maybe I could sustain a burst of energy more powerful than the sun could emit over a 10-billion-year time period. But Steve Nash has to understand that I have a bad hip."

O'Neal also added that he did not feel threatened by or feel any animosity toward Nash, who O'Neal believed would not have sufficient mass or power to become a supernova and who would instead cool slowly before degenerating into a white dwarf.

Though O'Neal has reportedly told Phoenix Suns coach Mike D'Antoni that he refuses to set foot on the U.S. Airways Center court until he is guaranteed that the arena will not collapse on itself at speeds of 70,000 kilometers per second, he informed Phoenix general manager Steve Kerr by telephone late Monday that if a supernova could not be avoided, he would consider playing with the team if he at least knew what type of stellar explosion he could expect.

"There are five types of supernovas," O'Neal said. "I told Steve that if I have to endure one of the five, I would prefer the Type 1c, which has weak or no helium lines and no strong silicon absorption features near 615†nanometers. The worst would be the Type 1b, which is characterized by non-ionized helium. I made it perfectly clear that, with all that I've done for this league, a neutrino-heavy Type 2L is simply unacceptable."

Early reports indicate that O'Neal was willing to compromise when he learned no other NBA team had any interest in the oft-injured athlete.

"I'm still the most dominant player in the game," O'Neal said. "I'm still a big star. But people must realize that, since I am as big as eight conventional stars, the risk of me going supernova is that much greater."

When asked if there were other teams that frightened O'Neal as much as the Suns, the 14-time All-Star said he would retire immediately if he were ever traded to the Utah Jazz.

[LongTimeLurker]

I may not be an edumacated mathematician but the idea that something comes from nothing is mathematically a flawed logic. Even from a physics standpoint the conservation of energy, that it isn't created or destroyed just changed, would suggest that even if the universe began in a state that our math would not be able to define, it still exists as something that is energy in some form. Even the theoretical physics of string theory suggests that our mathematical system itself might be only useful in our known universal dimension and in other potential dimensions it might not apply.

Although I find that when broaching the idea of the known universe did not start with the big bang as 'nothing' to the devotees of the scientific method it is received as if I asked a religious believer who created god. I have an intuitive notion that we have played this song before as current scientists look deep into the universe and postulate that it is as it appears. Yet it wasn't too long ago that people peered onto the horizon and thought the world was flat from looking at it.

Mankind, for all their crafty ingenuity, is not quite as intelligent as we think we are. As long as we continue to just use our mind to gather knowledge and not our consciousness to increase awareness what we learn will be just a shell of what really is. It is with both of these working together that any knowledge gathered will be used in wisdom and if the state of our species with what we have done to each other and our home so far is any indication it appears that we are severely lacking in any balance.