Zach Lowe on the Suns

[mikefly3113]

I would expect him to stand up and say, "Here is one we blew. We said Suns were tanking for draft position and we overlooked the fact that this team had some real talent and is much better than we (meaning the media) anticipated."

I'll give you a little in that he is not as bad as Chad Ford, but still all of us in life have to admit we are wrong on occasion. It would be nice to see these mullet-heads admit it once in a while, particularly when they are so vociferous at the start of the season claiming we are losing on purpose for draft positioning. You'll recall that the Suns management went out of their way to say that was not true and I found it particularly offensive for these guys to suggest that the Suns would make a trade of a key player - like Dragic for some future draft choice so the Suns could fall back and lose (yes Lowe was saying that as late as a week ago with Bill Simmons) for a better lottery position. In effect they are winning too much and it is not their time. Their suggestions are offensive and dishonest.

I agree with you in that we'll agree to disagree with respect to interpretation of his comments. I find them to be a classic left handed compliment, which is really not a compliment at all.

I agree that it sounds like Lowe is dancing around the subject of him being wrong about his prediction but this story and Lowe doesn't bother me its FORD that I can't stand. This guy was bashing on the suns before the season and it made me sick. I think we should be calling for his head. Does anyone know if he has eaten crow yet and had any comments about us??? I stopped following him on twitter cause he was too big of a jackass.

[carey]

Those of you bashing Lowe are way off. The guy is one of, if not the best, basketball writers out there. He knows more about basketball than 99% of the posters on here. Only homers picked the Suns before the season to be any good. If you listen to Jeff Hornacek on KTAR today he even says so himself. No one in the organization thought they'd be playing this well this soon. So anger towards Lowe is really misdirected.

Good to see you RW. If you have Twitter drop me a tweet sometime, @careystephen.

[bwgood77]

If you really want to get angry about these media wh0res, listen to the December 16th podcast from the Chad Ford about tanking. This man has absolutely no integrity and he projects his lack of integrity onto the NBA in general and the Suns in particular. "He is surprised because the Suns were built to tank." "they are just not good enough to win."

By the time I finished listening to the podcast my blood pressure was through the roof. i am not a violent man and have not been in a fight in over 40 years, but if that smirking POS was in front of me making those comments, II would have kicked his horse teeth down his ignorant throat.

What a tool!

I am surprised the NBA puts up with this POS and others like him.

I hear you with him as I started reading him to find out about draft prospects, maybe 12 years ago or so, and would ask our old asst coach, Phil Weber about his thoughts on it, since he lived in the same apt complex as me, and it was interesting.

But at some point he started evaluating NBA teams and that is NOT what he should be doing, and this season in particular, I have become disgusted with his articles. I haven't even listened to that and am not sure I want to, but he thinks multiple teams should tank...it makes zero sense for teams to trade multiple productive players in hopes to get perhaps one useful player. And if every team followed what HE thinks they should do, 15-20 teams would tank, lose productive players, and 10-15 of those teams would be pissed off they didn't get into the top five and lost all their productive players.

The Suns, to some extent, traded most all of their vets, to go young, and these guys are vastly out performing most people's expectations. How can that possibly be a bad thing? How can winning be bad? How can players doing better than some people thought be negative? The Suns probably did the thing he suggested (trading older vets for picks) to some extent, but held on to ones they could build around (or traded for them) and got much better. How can that be negative? They got a bunch of draft picks AND are successful with the young guys. That seems like having your cake and eating it too to me.

The whole narrative with almost, if not all the espn guys sucks.

[Revived]

Lol this thread is hilarious. Everyone that's saying "Wow they doubted us in the beginning!"

Well, how many of y'all thought we would be this good this year? Maybe like 2 or 3 of y'all but that's it.

So please don't BS and act as if you thought the Suns would be this good all along and your mad that nobody predicted this Cinderella season for the Suns.

[BurningHeart]

I'm not mad that nobody predicted this. This isn't about that.

This is about people who thought we were going to lose games on purpose choking on their misguided dicks.

[Ryu]

I agree that it sounds like Lowe is dancing around the subject of him being wrong about his prediction but this story and Lowe doesn't bother me its FORD that I can't stand. This guy was bashing on the suns before the season and it made me sick. I think we should be calling for his head. Does anyone know if he has eaten crow yet and had any comments about us??? I stopped following him on twitter cause he was too big of a jackass.

Of course not. He actually called a couple of days ago on some podcast the Suns stupid because they are winning and looking great. Jackass.

[bigfoot]

Those of you bashing Lowe are way off. The guy is one of, if not the best, basketball writers out there. He knows more about basketball than 99% of the posters on here. Only homers picked the Suns before the season to be any good. If you listen to Jeff Hornacek on KTAR today he even says so himself. No one in the organization thought they'd be playing this well this soon. So anger towards Lowe is really misdirected.

Good to see you RW. If you have Twitter drop me a tweet sometime, @careystephen.

Zach Lowe started as blogger on the Celtics. Meaning he knew a little bit about web site development and got an A in high school english. Maybe he even played high school ball. But this guy doesn't know jack about professional basketball. He writes flowery words that got the Smeltic masses ejaculating all over themselves. Then BIll Simmons (another wackjob) hires him at Grantland. Zach Lowe certainly didn't take anytime to watch a Suns preseason game but had the balls to say there gonna suck. How stupid to make a prediction without looking at any real data. These guys spewed out shat, don't want to admit it, but everyone can see they are choking on it.

From June through September you'll not find a post where I say the Suns are gonna win like this. Only after I observed some preseason games did I think the Suns were gonna be better than the media fools. Call me a homer if you like but I least I am a fan.

[Frank Lee]

I do not think many of these 'media boys' do the research on Phx. We are the 10:30 pm game to east coasters. Its so easy read a box score, watch a highlight and pencil us in as the same-o-same-o-phnx-suns-fast-break-no-defense-cheap-owner-also-ran-team of the past.

The darling subjects in the west are OKC. LACs and of course the fLakers (no matter how they are playing). Hype feeds hype. This yr, Portland has forced themselves into the conversation,
AND we are knocking on the door....like an annoying kid neighbor.

They just better hope there's not a brown bag on fire when they open it.

[rsavaj]

I really enjoy Zach Lowe's writing. Didn't realize I was in the minority.

[bwgood77]

I don't think you are in the minority. I read Lowe on cnnsi last year and didn't know he had been a Celtics blogger. He DEFINITELY knows a lot about basketball. This is clearly evident if you read his articles. Many of his interviewees (coaches and the like) mention it in interviews that they are surprised by his depth of knowledge of the intricacies of the game (apparent in his questions).

I also don't think analysts have time to watch every team's preseason games before making predictions. Even if they did, preseason games are usually pretty meaningless. It's definitely reasonable that people predicted us to be bad.

We traded away three starters, the ones with the most experience and were going to start a guy who had missed over a year at pf, a guy who had averaged 1.9 minutes per game in his rookie year at center, a guy who had only been a backup in our backcourt, a role player at sf, and a pg who had only started about 1 1/2 seasons. The rest of the west outside of a few teams had multiple vets starting, was really deep, and many of the teams had added depth or all stars (Iggy, Howard) to their teams.

It's amazing a guy writes that he thinks us being really good being the best story in the league, and people get all bent out of shape about it because he didn't think so before the season started.

Yes, I understand getting bent out of shape about the idiocy of Ford saying we are stupid for winning, but he's lost all sight of what is important for nba teams and what the ultmate objective of a team is and only cares about the draft every year. He seems to think teams can turn it around quickly with one star, when teams that get really bad, typically stay really bad, and teams like OKC are extremely rare.

[carey]

But this guy doesn't know jack about professional basketball.

Are you joking? I'm not even sure if I should take you seriously. It sounds like you have a grudge because he used to be a Celtics blogger and got a friendly career boost from Simmons.

Here's some links to his analysis.

On Bobcats Defense: http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-trian ... ng-defense

On the rise of the 3-ball: http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/101 ... urting-nba

Players poised to make the leap: http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/100 ... -greatness

Again, there's actual basketball ANALYSIS in his articles. He also calls it like he sees it, which is a rare trait for a writer. He doesn't blow smoke.

[bigfoot]

But this guy doesn't know jack about professional basketball.

Are you joking? I'm not even sure if I should take you seriously. It sounds like you have a grudge because he used to be a Celtics blogger and got a friendly career boost from Simmons.

Here's some links to his analysis.

On Bobcats Defense: http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-trian ... ng-defense

On the rise of the 3-ball: http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/101 ... urting-nba

Players poised to make the leap: http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/100 ... -greatness

Again, there's actual basketball ANALYSIS in his articles. He also calls it like he sees it, which is a rare trait for a writer. He doesn't blow smoke.

He calls it like he sees it when he studies it. These are fine articles but shat like this is wrong ... "A handful of teams that are not trying to win games — Boston, Phoenix, Utah, Philadelphia, Orlando — have nearly a dozen solid and tradable veterans between them"

He misses the mark on so many of these predictions it f-ing funny.
http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/979 ... -14-season

[carey]

He misses the mark on so many of these predictions it f-ing funny.
http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/979 ... -14-season

As does every single media guy that makes predictions. That's the thing about predictions in sports. They are almost always wrong.

We're going to have to agree to disagree.

[nashrambler13]

I think there's a great deal that many of the posters here are neglecting: to the outside world of NBA pundits, IT LOOKED LIKE WE WERE TRYING TO LOSE GAMES. Everyone agreed. There was not a single real analyst (non-homer) who saw this coming. Look at some of our moves in the off-season.

-Draft a player who would miss time due to injury at the beginning of the year
-Hired A Rookie Coach
-Got rid of one of our most reliable scorers (Scola) for players who couldn't gain any playoff minutes on one of the worst benches in the NBA (Gerald Green and the yet to prove himself a legit NBA player Miles Plumlee)
-Lose some veteran Leadership (Dudley)

These are some pretty classic "WE'RE TRYING TO LOSE" moves. And then to top it all off, after some preseason success, we make the Gortat move. Imagine how this would look to analysts everywhere.

-Team that already has little proven talent already trades its most reliable player (Well, I suppose that's debatable) along with a few others for NOTHING (well, something, but nothing that has played).

Guys, READ THAT AGAIN. If that doesn't scream TRYING TO LOSE, I don't know what does. Of course it looks like we're trying to lose. You can't possibly deny that. I'm not saying that we WERE, or that we SHOULD, but that is what the moves we made were conducive to by most analytical measures.

So when Zach Lowe says that he hopes that the Suns FO doesn't make some moves to make them lose, what he's saying is that the FO is disappointed with the winning. That they believe that it will lead to mediocrity. That they believe this draft is too good to pass up; these are logical things to predict seeing as thats how they (seemingly) felt at the beginning of the year. Zach Lowe is HOPING THAT THE FO DOESNT DO THAT. BECAUSE HE LOVES WATCHING US.

Also, if you hate Zach Lowe, I have a hard time believing you are a true BASKETBALL fan (rather than just a homer Suns fan). The guy is BRILLIANT. Period. He cranks out articles like no other, and articles with INCREDIBLE analysis. If you blame him for messing up some predictions, I don't know what to say to you other than get over yourselves, nobody gets all that **** right.

[nashrambler13]

Also, I'd just like to say I'm just as excited as the next guy here- I started this season preaching the tank, but more just because I wanted to find the positives in a team that was completely unproven and seemed built to lose. (I mean, if you root for your favorite team to lose to gain a superstar, you can't possibly be disappointed by the end result! If you lose, its what you "wanted", if you win, well, you can't possibly be pissed at a win!) These guys proved me wrong. They proved EVERYBODY wrong. They surprised me, and now that I see that they are capable of winning I can't help but look forward to the playoffs!

(Of course, if they end up with the 9th seed I don't know how I will recover from the depression likely to ensue)

[Ring_Wanted]

Guys, READ THAT AGAIN. If that doesn't scream TRYING TO LOSE, I don't know what does.

Rebuilding. Unless you are of the school of thinking that don't think there is any difference between terms like rebuilding/tanking/'trying to lose', etc.

Anyway, the media guys say wrong things all the time. Every one of them. I wouldn't take exception for the fact that they looked at our moves and roster and thought 'this team is going to be pretty bad'.

Personally, when I come across an article centered on predictions, I simply skip it. I find much more interesting (basically less futile) the ones that analyze what has already happened and explains why did so.

[BurningHeart]

Yeah, that's just called rebuilding. Unless you were a fan born in 1998 and this NBA2k-style fantasy bull is what you know. Then rebuilding is the same thing as tanking, lol.

[thamadkant]

I think there's a great deal that many of the posters here are neglecting: to the outside world of NBA pundits, IT LOOKED LIKE WE WERE TRYING TO LOSE GAMES. Everyone agreed. There was not a single real analyst (non-homer) who saw this coming. Look at some of our moves in the off-season.

-Draft a player who would miss time due to injury at the beginning of the year
-Hired A Rookie Coach
-Got rid of one of our most reliable scorers (Scola) for players who couldn't gain any playoff minutes on one of the worst benches in the NBA (Gerald Green and the yet to prove himself a legit NBA player Miles Plumlee)
-Lose some veteran Leadership (Dudley)

These are some pretty classic "WE'RE TRYING TO LOSE" moves. And then to top it all off, after some preseason success, we make the Gortat move. Imagine how this would look to analysts everywhere.

-Team that already has little proven talent already trades its most reliable player (Well, I suppose that's debatable) along with a few others for NOTHING (well, something, but nothing that has played).

Guys, READ THAT AGAIN. If that doesn't scream TRYING TO LOSE, I don't know what does. Of course it looks like we're trying to lose. You can't possibly deny that. I'm not saying that we WERE, or that we SHOULD, but that is what the moves we made were conducive to by most analytical measures.

So when Zach Lowe says that he hopes that the Suns FO doesn't make some moves to make them lose, what he's saying is that the FO is disappointed with the winning. That they believe that it will lead to mediocrity. That they believe this draft is too good to pass up; these are logical things to predict seeing as thats how they (seemingly) felt at the beginning of the year. Zach Lowe is HOPING THAT THE FO DOESNT DO THAT. BECAUSE HE LOVES WATCHING US.

Also, if you hate Zach Lowe, I have a hard time believing you are a true BASKETBALL fan (rather than just a homer Suns fan). The guy is BRILLIANT. Period. He cranks out articles like no other, and articles with INCREDIBLE analysis. If you blame him for messing up some predictions, I don't know what to say to you other than get over yourselves, nobody gets all that **** right.

I agree with this.

Just on the moves McD was pulling with the exception of the Bledsoe one, it looked like a move to bring in young players and just let then play.

At the end of the day...
- it is still only 1/4 of the season
- suns are not locked in for a playoff spot
- injuries can happen

What I'm saying is...
Suns look good!
But let's not count the chickens until they hatch.

Nothing is set in stone... Except maybe Heat and Thunder making the playoffs.

[nashrambler13]

Guys, READ THAT AGAIN. If that doesn't scream TRYING TO LOSE, I don't know what does.

Rebuilding. Unless you are of the school of thinking that don't think there is any difference between terms like rebuilding/tanking/'trying to lose', etc.

Eh, you guys can call it rebuilding if you want. However, whether you personally like it or not, tanking exists. Teams have done it (the front offices do anyways) and some will continue to try it because (again, like it or not) it HAS worked before, no matter how rarely that is. And trading your best player for nothing but draft picks and a player who won't play for you seems more tanking than rebuilding to me and most.

My point overall is that you can't really judge someone for being surprised that we're not tanking. I don't know if its the right decision, but again, teams do it, and teams are doing it this year, and we had less proven talent than most teams out there. Really, I'm just a Zach Lowe apologist overall tho

Also, just curious is there a really specific difference between rebuilding and tanking? I mean, obviously there has to be a difference, but what do you define it as?

[bwgood77]

I'm just glad we traded all of our vets before the season started, because if a team starts the season with a few vets, and is playing well, and then starts trading vets that have played a big part in you being good, then it clearly looks like you don't want to be good this year, which I would say is pretty clearly tanking. But this practice seems to be accepted these days, and obviously the end goal is always to be better down the road, so to many people, the end justifies the means.

At least with us, we started the season without any vets, and if these guys took their lumps and we ended up with a pick, so be it, but we want this team to learn and grow together and the sooner they are good the better. This is clearly rebuilding.