Time to 'pull the plug' or Dr Jack, where are you?

[Frank Lee]

Frank, I have a different impression of where the problem lies. We have three main ways we've been playing:

1) Starters
2) Bench+ -- 3-4 guys off the bench + 1-2 starters
3) Small(-sh)-ball -- either 3 PGs or Markieff at the five (occasionally both)

I think #1 and #3 have been solid. We're not doing #3 a ton anyway, but I think it's great as an occasional curve-ball. It's been absolutely perfect in some situations.

#2 can get really ugly. I'm totally fine with each of IT, Green, and Marcus in the right context...but altogether?? All three are negative defenders that are too heavy on the iso.

In my opinion, the biggest problem is Marcus. He shows up at #417 of 456 by defensive RPM: not what you want from an SF/PF.

OK... I can see that clearly as well with my 'retina-ic' stats
#2 is the ChuckWagon
and #3 seems to be morphing into a 'as needed / if works' weapon.
I too have soured on Marcus. Do not see his position on this team in the future.


as for my 'arguing' Miyag ? ...I make great effort to discuss. And BTW, this thread was started prior to Wright's involvement, and as Len was becoming more effective. They do seem to be coming around to my way of thinking.

Could be proof the FO does keep an eye on this site.

[MrMiyagi]

Yeah, this thread was started prior to getting Wright and starting Len, but that post I quoted was after.

But I'll give it to you

[MathiasPW]

numbers numbers numbers.....throw out non play off teams and double the emphasis vrs the west's top 8-9. Thats the eye ball. If we can't beat memphis, san ant, GState, Houst, OKC etc with tiny ball, then its needs to be ****canned.
My sample size was based on just a couple of important games against contenders. Watch your stats over the next ten games. Isolate them to that sample size. If McDo is following it too, we will see his and hornys response.

I love stats, but I also love the way you are counter-arguing them and looking at the loopholes that may exist in aggregating season-long stats. Good job.

[Revived]

I can't imagine Frank enjoyed the extensive Tucker-Kieff and other small ball lineups we used against LAL...

[Moochthemonkey]

numbers numbers numbers.....throw out non play off teams and double the emphasis vrs the west's top 8-9. Thats the eye ball. If we can't beat memphis, san ant, GState, Houst, OKC etc with tiny ball, then its needs to be ****canned.
My sample size was based on just a couple of important games against contenders. Watch your stats over the next ten games. Isolate them to that sample size. If McDo is following it too, we will see his and hornys response.

I love stats, but I also love the way you are counter-arguing them and looking at the loopholes that may exist in aggregating season-long stats. Good job.

I agree, it's refreshing to see someone actually try to refute stats with a solid argument other than the "lol nerd just watch the game" posts that are all too common when Los Soles and others makes the advanced stat saturated points.

[Wannabe MEP]

2) Bench+ -- 3-4 guys off the bench + 1-2 starters

#2 can get really ugly. I'm totally fine with each of IT, Green, and Marcus in the right context...but altogether?? All three are negative defenders that are too heavy on the iso.

OK... I can see that clearly as well with my 'retina-ic' stats
#2 is the ChuckWagon

Ok, so we’re definitely on the same page when it comes to the “ChuckWagon.” I’m more concerned about the defense than the offense, though.

IT-Green-Marcus have played 285 minutes together
OffRtg: 111.6 (Really good!!)
DefRtg: 111.7 (Really bad!!)
NetRtg: -0.1 (ultimately slightly more bad than good)

All three of these guys are dynamic — albeit chuckaliciously iso-centric — on offense…and liabilities on defense. Lots of good teams have these kinds of offensive sparks coming off the bench; problem is that we have three coming off the bench at the same time. It’s just a really poor fit.

When you’re building a team and selecting lineups, you don’t really focus on bench fit. You focus on starter fit and hope the leftovers don’t suck. (Although during our 2009-2010 run, bench fit was a HUGE part of our success. But I don’t think that was really well planned or anything; I think it just sort of came together mostly by accident.)

Breaking down these guys by RPM over the last two years:

IT
2014-2015

• Offensive RPM: +3.36
• Defensive RPM: -1.13
• Total RPM: +2.23

2013-2014

• Offensive RPM: +3.85
• Defensive RPM: -1.62
• Total RPM: +2.23

Green
2014-2015

• Offensive RPM: +0.94
• Defensive RPM: -3.78
• Total RPM: -2.84

2013-2014

• Offensive RPM: -0.43
• Defensive RPM: -1.11
• Total RPM: -1.54

Marcus
2014-2015

• Offensive RPM: +1.64
• Defensive RPM: -2.23
• Total RPM: -0.59

2013-2014

• Offensive RPM: +0.49
• Defensive RPM: -0.78
• Total RPM: -0.29

According to RPM, there's a clear winner, IT, and loser, Green. I wouldn't have thought there would be such a huge gap between those two. But it's pretty sizable, and consistent over the last two years.

[Frank Lee]

I think our best chances this yr include IT... Green is ... is... sometimes unconscious ... and sometimes I wish I was unconscious watching him. I have no clue/guess/idea of what we are going to do with the roster. But, as always stressed, we are flexible.

We'll see what this squad is made of, top (coach) to bottom over the next couple of weeks. I appreciate the patience in explaining the stats. Slow to buy in, but can't ignore them, as it is no secret our GM is a numbacruncha

[bigfoot]

I can't imagine Frank enjoyed the extensive Tucker-Kieff and other small ball lineups we used against LAL...

Yeah that was really evident in the 4th quarter when LAL made their run. I like many other people wondered where was Len? Let's hope his foot issue isn't serious.

[Wannabe MEP]

I can't imagine Frank enjoyed the extensive Tucker-Kieff and other small ball lineups we used against LAL...

Yeah that was really evident in the 4th quarter when LAL made their run. I like many other people wondered where was Len? Let's hope his foot issue isn't serious.

I mean...we were +8 with a Tucker-Markieff frontcourt in the 4th (outscored 'em 10-2 with that lineup).

[Revived]

I can't imagine Frank enjoyed the extensive Tucker-Kieff and other small ball lineups we used against LAL...

Yeah that was really evident in the 4th quarter when LAL made their run. I like many other people wondered where was Len? Let's hope his foot issue isn't serious.

Yea LAL was getting 2nd chance pts and crashing boards easily. Plus I think I even saw Boozer score a couple of times at the rim which is rare at his age now.

[JTrain]

[rsavaj]

I can't imagine Frank enjoyed the extensive Tucker-Kieff and other small ball lineups we used against LAL...

Yeah that was really evident in the 4th quarter when LAL made their run. I like many other people wondered where was Len? Let's hope his foot issue isn't serious.

I mean...we were +8 with a Tucker-Markieff frontcourt in the 4th (outscored 'em 10-2 with that lineup).

Oh you and your numbers.

[King4Day]

I'm late to this one but regarding Hornacek, he's working with who he was given. If we're struggling to score, why wouldn't you put Green and IT on the floor? His job is to win.
I agree that I don't like this iso ball though.

Kieff, IMO, isn't the problem. He's far and away our most consistently clutch scorer.

I get excited when Green pumps and drives because I've never seen it not work. He just doesn't do it enough. I wish Hornacek would have him focus on this and not entirely green light him to shoot when he's passed the ball.

[MrMiyagi]

I think our best chances this yr include IT... Green is ... is... sometimes unconscious ... and sometimes I wish I was unconscious watching him. I have no clue/guess/idea of what we are going to do with the roster. But, as always stressed, we are flexible.

We'll see what this squad is made of, top (coach) to bottom over the next couple of weeks. I appreciate the patience in explaining the stats. Slow to buy in, but can't ignore them, as it is no secret our GM is a numbacruncha