Game: Golden State Warriors (36-8) @ Phoenix Suns (28-20)

[In Len We Trust]

Honestly, I am more comfortable without IT regardless if Goran stays or if Goran goes. I am more comfortable with Ennis (even he has only played something like 10 minutes total this year). Ennis has everything you want as a point guard that IT doesn't. I think we all tend to forget about Ennis.

So basically there is no circumstance that I want IT on this team! I think its a win-win situation getting rid of IT. You get rid of his salary, poor decision making, defensive liabilities, and selfish play. It's a win-win for me to rid ourselves of the IT. If Ish Smith did fine last year than Ennis (who has way more upside than IT and Ish) will do just fine.

I think you are hating on IT a little bit too much. He's a really good player overall.

If Goran AND IT leave then who would be our starting SG? Green will probably walk....Archie? I mean, I really don't think it is a good idea to be WORSE next year. We are supposed to be improving on a year to year basis until we get to where we want to eventually be, and that's contending for a championship.

The big problem with our offense is we basically have no play making going on right now. I accept IT for what he is and that's an extremely undersized "shooting" guard. Sorta an cheaper version of Allen Iverson. The team is in dire need of just a plain old fashioned "play making" PG. Granted Goran excelled when he was given those responsibilities but hornsack doesn't use Goran as a PG anymore. This team just needs to get back to fundamentals. And I just know IT is not a "classic" PG.

I agree with everything you said, but you didn't address the fact that if Dragic and IT both left then we wouldn't be left with a good starting SG. To lose Dragic AND Thomas we will need to make that up big time somehow, or else we will be way worse next year and won't even sniff the playoffs.

[Revived]

I think you are hating on IT a little bit too much. He's a really good player overall.

If Goran AND IT leave then who would be our starting SG? Green will probably walk....Archie? I mean, I really don't think it is a good idea to be WORSE next year. We are supposed to be improving on a year to year basis until we get to where we want to eventually be, and that's contending for a championship.

The big problem with our offense is we basically have no play making going on right now. I accept IT for what he is and that's an extremely undersized "shooting" guard. Sorta an cheaper version of Allen Iverson. The team is in dire need of just a plain old fashioned "play making" PG. Granted Goran excelled when he was given those responsibilities but hornsack doesn't use Goran as a PG anymore. This team just needs to get back to fundamentals. And I just know IT is not a "classic" PG.

I agree with everything you said, but you didn't address the fact that if Dragic and IT both left then we wouldn't be left with a good starting SG. To lose Dragic AND Thomas we will need to make that up big time somehow, or else we will be way worse next year and won't even sniff the playoffs.

[tgtm_24]

If IT leaves, Dragic won't leave unless the Suns significantly low ball him.

Dragic was happy last year with just him and Bledsoe.

Thompson toyed with Dragic last night. If only he were better defensively, he'd far and away be our best player.

[kennydorglas]

The big problem with our offense is we basically have no play making going on right now. I accept IT for what he is and that's an extremely undersized "shooting" guard. Sorta an cheaper version of Allen Iverson. The team is in dire need of just a plain old fashioned "play making" PG. Granted Goran excelled when he was given those responsibilities but hornsack doesn't use Goran as a PG anymore. This team just needs to get back to fundamentals. And I just know IT is not a "classic" PG.

I agree with everything you said, but you didn't address the fact that if Dragic and IT both left then we wouldn't be left with a good starting SG. To lose Dragic AND Thomas we will need to make that up big time somehow, or else we will be way worse next year and won't even sniff the playoffs.

Talk about a perfect fit for this team.
Come on, Hornacek... start recruiting Matthews right now.

[Calvin Klein]

I'm not even mad. GSW defense was awesome. Suns just couldn't do anything in the second half.

[jcsunsfan]

Kerr has managed to put together a high octane running and shooting offense AND a good defense. Something Mike D refused to do.

[In Len We Trust]

As great as Matthews would be, how could we realistically get him? I don't see any scenario.

[dgwdum]

As great as Matthews would be, how could we realistically get him? I don't see any scenario.

Pay him more than the blazers in the summer? He's an unrestricted free agent. So with dragic likely leaving use that cap space to sign Mathews.

[In Len We Trust]

As great as Matthews would be, how could we realistically get him? I don't see any scenario.

Pay him more than the blazers in the summer? He's an unrestricted free agent. So with dragic likely leaving use that cap space to sign Mathews.

Without his bird rights, we can't. The only reason we can give Dragic max money is because we have his bird rights and can go over the cap to sign him. I'm pretty sure that even if we dumped IT's contract there still wouldn't be enough $ to sign Wes.

[Revived]

As great as Matthews would be, how could we realistically get him? I don't see any scenario.

Pay him more than the blazers in the summer? He's an unrestricted free agent. So with dragic likely leaving use that cap space to sign Mathews.

Without his bird rights, we can't. The only reason we can give Dragic max money is because we have his bird rights and can go over the cap to sign him. I'm pretty sure that even if we dumped IT's contract there still wouldn't be enough $ to sign Wes.

If Dragic goes and we trade IT and let Green walk, we should have money to sign Wes.

[In Len We Trust]

Pay him more than the blazers in the summer? He's an unrestricted free agent. So with dragic likely leaving use that cap space to sign Mathews.

Without his bird rights, we can't. The only reason we can give Dragic max money is because we have his bird rights and can go over the cap to sign him. I'm pretty sure that even if we dumped IT's contract there still wouldn't be enough $ to sign Wes.

If Dragic goes and we trade IT and let Green walk, we should have money to sign Wes.

Can somebody figure out how much space we' have in this scenario? I'm too lazy to look it all up right now.

[GoldenState-]

Lol really?!? Name a team that won a championship, in the last 10 years, running small ball. I'll make it easier for you. Name a team that won a championship in the last 10 years without an all-star forward or center.

The Spurs play smash mouth basketball year after year and win. Ironically led by one of the best centers of all time who doesn't have great range and rarely shots threes in tim Duncan.

So basically your completely 100% wrong.

The game CHANGES. Rules change,how refs CALL it.. changes. You can't "handcheck" but get away with bumping-grabbing a ballhandler. Allowing zone or semi zone made the big C,the wide body.. a diddernt guy. Barkley used to do that back in Iso dribble-bump till he's in close. Shaq did it too. K Malone's classic charge down the lane.. jump on your chest move.. is a charge now.
It USED to be a fool had to freeze..not fling..while Malone ran him down like a dumptruck hitting a deer in the lights. Playing Wilt..Ewing...up close..you get a big elbow in the mug.

The 3 is a changer. Now players in HS are working on the 4. Now you see guys 6-10 who can't shoot a decent hook but can pop a 3. Not long ago...it was dogma that you went with a rotation of 7-8 guys. GSW does a rotation of 10-11. ATL runs pretty deep. Years ago... a fast break finished with a dunk or layup..now...often it kicks out to a corner 3. While you may get away with grab+bump on a dribbler.. the refs call it tight if anyone is shooting. Now... refs get video impact... they are less able to create their own rulebook and some calls go to review. I saw games in the 90's where the perverse ways of a ref or two..mutated the game.

Times change.

GSW and ATL were expected to be..about..4 seed. Well.. they got ahead of the trend. More teamwork, consistant effort on D, Depth, MAKE 3's. There IS still a role for the tough bruiser.. but he's got to be more than a thug. Millsap and Dray Green... both do it well. GSW and ATL..both can thrive on the 3..yet in a way.. they play like the HS or college team that EXECUTES.. is not depending on hyper athletic types. The Spurs..mostly showed how stability helps build a Team Factor..where the whole>> the sum of the parts. They showed that D matters..balance.. matters. The GSW and ATL coaches have links to Popavich and the Spurs.

The Suns? Not quite ripe yet but on the right track. Probably have to add at least one more quality player and a tad more depth.

Times changes but the basics of basketball don't. Qualtiy bigs still equal championships. NOT once......I repeat.....NOT once has a small ball team even sniffed the finals. Shoot even the heat had an all-star forward and a pretty decent center in the birdman. And it's no coincidence the cavs started to win once they traded for a quality center. Get your garbage argument of team work out of here. For team work to work you have to have the right pieces. And most importantly you have to have an all-star big.

Every single championship team has had an all-star big!!!!!!!

Duncan
Bosh
Garnett
Gasol/Bynum
Shaq
Ben Wallace/Rasheed Wallace
Dennis Rodman
Horace grant
Hakeem
And I can keep going.....

Bottomline, you can argue all day that the game has changed but in essence it really hasn't. The basics of basketball have not changed. Bigs still win championships.......PERiOD

There is a reason every team tries so hard to trade/sign bigs because they are hard to get and they equal long term winning. And there are reasons that quality PG and shoot guards are a dime a dozen and there is an over abundance of them. The teams lucky enough to have a quality big do everything in their power to keep them, whereas most teams let their PGs (if they are asking for too much)walk when they are free agents because they are easy to replace (especially right now).

The Spurs are champion because of one of the greatest centers ever in tim Duncan. Popovich would have zero championships without him. Every coach would look brilliant with tim Duncan.

Warriors have 3 All Star bigs. Bogut playing like an all star by playing elite defense with elite passing and averaging 14.4ppg, 2.7bpg, 1.1 spg, 4.2 apg, 12.7 rpg per 36 minutes per game.

David Lee two time All Star and will eventually become an offensive beast that he was before having time off from injury to begin the season.


Draymond playing like an All Star by playing Ben Wallace D guarding 1-5 with ease. See, 3 all star bigs. More than some of those championship teams of the past.

[Puff]

I am not sure what game some of you were watching but to put so much blame on Keiff and Bledsoe is unbelievable. Surely Bled is not the perfect point guard and Keiff is not the perfect PF but the both competed mightily against the Warriors. I also see no one on our roster better for the positions that they play and know of no one available form another team that would be better.

The guy to be concerned about is Dragic. He seems to have a habit of coming out in the 1st quarter with fire in his eyes while being am important factor. He then seems to go into a disappearing act and short arm virtually every shot after that. He seems like he does that over and over again if we are in a tight game in the 4th quarter. His attempts to get others involved is pitiful at best. I would be interested to see what his shooting percentage is if you take away his fast break lay ups. I have no idea why we would consider giving him a near max contract this off season.

I can really see why Green is upset most of the time. He has the shortest leash in history. Anytime he makes a bad play, trying to do the right thing, he gets pulled. This is after watching our 3 point guards make numerous mistakes and still being allowed to stay on the court.

I am not trying to justify Green's brain farts but he is by far our most physically gifted back court player. If we are to ever be a factor we need someone will his physical make up to be a factor on this team. This is not a 6 foot and under league. Teams with athletic 6'5" to 6'7" wings that play both ends of the court are the teams that have dominated play in this league. Until we have that guy or guys on this team we will struggle to even make the playoffs let alone win a championship.

When you shoot 36% from the field you are not going to win very often.

How can anyone say this team plays better defense that we did under MDA's 7 SOL? The only time we play good defense is when the other team is missing wide open shots.

What? That isn't even close to true. What are you talking about? He has the greenest light of all time and Hornacek leaves him in 99% of the time even when he isn't making ANYTHING. Remember that Milwaukee game earlier this year where Green was literally like 0-11 on threes and Horny make the atrocious decision of continuing to play him and let him keep shooting? Horrible coaching decision that single handedly lost us that game.

Again, what are you even talking about?

Man you have selective hearing and please quit highlighting my posts in your responses as well. This is not a court of law it is a freaking internet message board. I do not mind you disagreeing my takes but in very short order you are fast becoming very annoying. You act like you are some kind of genius. All you have is an opinion, like all the rest of us. None of us really know crap.

The point I am trying to make is that we are trying to win with a bunch of midgets in the back court and really need to add some size, IMO. Probably more so in the back court than in the front court, IMO. If you think we are ever going to be good enough to win against the better teams with Dragic basically playing the 3 you are nuts. We actually need to dump two of our point guards going forward. Green has the athleticism and size that I would be looking for. Virtually all of the top teams have a multiple wings with size that are athletic freaks. Green comes the closest to being that guy, on our current roster. I would have plays designed to get him to the hoop. That is on the coach, not him. He is one our best free throw shooters and he spends most of time jacking up 3 point shots. I just do not think he is being used properly and if he leaves I would not be surprised if he puts up huge numbers wherever he lands.

As I remember he was pretty damn good last year as a starter. He did not just come in and chuck up 3 point shots and still put up several games in the 30's. He is one of the guys that lost minutes after Thomas arrived. It seems now he is forcing everything trying to earn minutes that he lost because of Thomas. I remember that he and Dragic worked well together last year but he never seems to be on the court with Dragic at the controls, why not. I guess it is because our coaching staff has made Dragic a 2 whenever Bledsoe or Thomas are in the game. If Dragic is our shooting guard going forward we are not going to win anything. For better or worse his spot is at the point. If we plan on playing him at the 2 going forward we need to trade him because I expect he will leave anyway come this summer.

[Lindecision]

Lol dream on. Wes Matthews will have at least 5 better situations to go than Phoenix where money won't be an issue.

But I agree with the above. Your best play is to give Dragic the max in the hope that he stays. Then deal IT for something/anything/cap space. Detroit will need a PG.

[Revived]

Lol dream on. Wes Matthews will have at least 5 better situations to go than Phoenix where money won't be an issue.

But I agree with the above. Your best play is to give Dragic the max in the hope that he stays. Then deal IT for something/anything/cap space. Detroit will need a PG.

Money won't be an issue in PHX either. And his connection to Hornacek could certainly help the situation in PHX.

[Frank Lee]

I'm with Puff. Get it back to normal McDo.

[Cutter]

I'm tired of stretch 4's.

I don't want the gimmicky 3 pg line up.

I'm tired of chucking being the offensive game plan for this team.

I want the Suns to be big, rebound and play terrifying defense in the paint.

I want a bruiser at the PF position.

I want a rim protecting, decent scoring Center.

I want a pg that is a great shooter and averages at least 8-10 assists per game.

I want my SG to be at least 6'6" , play great wing defense and be good catch and shoot.

I want my SF to a good all round player....scoring, rebounds and defense.

I want a coach that holds players accountable, is a little on the strict side but also rewards players that play with intensity.

I want to be middle of the pack in technicals, not so passive to have zero techs, but also not league leading in pissing off the refs.

Currently I am almost completely out of step with this team as constructed.

[Revived]

I'm tired of stretch 4's.

I don't want the gimmicky 3 pg line up.

I'm tired of chucking being the offensive game plan for this team.

I want the Suns to be big, rebound and play terrifying defense in the paint.

I want a bruiser at the PF position.

I want a rim protecting, decent scoring Center.

I want a pg that is a great shooter and averages at least 8-10 assists per game.

I want my SG to be at least 6'6" , play great wing defense and be good catch and shoot.

I want my SF to a good all round player....scoring, rebounds and defense.

I want a coach that holds players accountable, is a little on the strict side but also rewards players that play with intensity.

I want to be middle of the pack in technicals, not so passive to have zero techs, but also not league leading in pissing off the refs.

Currently I am almost completely out of step with this team as constructed.

I'm with ya man. I don't like the "system" that Hornacek has implemented in PHX.