Game 24: Blazers (9-14) @ Suns (10-13)

[batsmasher]

Geez, LMA is lucky he didn't sign here then. This team sounds like a train wreck.

My point is, if a superstar FA is prepared to commit to this team, we're doing enough right. We are in an above average position with draft picks and have up to $26M to work with this offseason.

But I'm surely being too optimistic here, so carry on.

[thamadkant]

Everyone is defensive mode because of frustrations. In the end, the micro-discussion csn go for days as everyone has their own interpretations. But macro wise.... The Suns still dont have a championship. And one of their better owners... Colangelo... Apparently tried to form a group to re buy the suns just before he signed with 76ers... Thats **** depressing... The one person who probably could change the Suns reputation amongst other owners and star players... Signed with a team blatantly abusing the system by tanking... A team who hasnt won a game. And news of them making moves to get D'Antoni???


Nash... Former Suns MVP... Signed with Warriors...
Just before Suns apparently tried to recruit him.


What I'm saying is...
The Suns are cursed lol.


Again, save from the micro-discussions... Macro wise... The Suns need that championship.


Maybe the Suns can do a Spurs ala 1999... When they formed a new Front Office that implemented the best sports corporate culture of the last w decades.... Is the current FO the right front office?

[garrick]

The Suns are facing a 2003 Marbury/Hardaway situation all over again. A selfish player (Marbury) and a fading star (Hardaway) holding back very talented players in Amare, Marion, and Johnson.

Fast forward to 2015 and you have two guys (Bledsoe and Knight), holding back the talent of Len, Warren, and Booker. Watching Bledsoe and Knight is like watching Marbury all over again except at least Marbury had star talent. Bledsoe and Knight are incredibly selfish and think they are Allen Iverson. Both have low IQ's, are turnover prone, have poor ball handling skills, are not good shooters, try to be the hero yet constantly screw up, and neither makes anyone around them better. The mark of a true superstar is making players around you better. Bledsoe and Knight make players around them worse.

I hate the way this team is built. I HATE IT. I stopped posting because I was getting quoted by everyone and everyone was insulting me. Well guess what, now nearly everyone wants Markieff gone, they want Hornacek fired, and they want one of Bledsoe, Knight, or both traded. So many people are now saying what I said all offseason yet was heavily criticized for. I told you guys this was not complicated. You do not win with a dual point guard lineup, especially not with selfish ones. Bledsoe, Knight, Thomas, and Dragic are score first guards. The Suns went in the opposite direction of Nash and there was no need for it. I would take Ish Smith over all four of the guys I just mentioned. At least I know Smith will pass the ball. Sarver needs to clean house and do what Ken Kendrick did and hire a proven winner like Tony La Russa to undo all the terrible moves from the past five years.

None of our frontcourt players come close to having the talent that Amare and Marion had, Booker looks like he could have potential but it's still too early to say if he will become the kind of player that JJ became.

I do think that one of either Bledsoe or Knight needs to eventually go as neither are true point guards but at the moment the guard and center positions are the only ones that are keeping us competitive.

PJ should be on the bench and Warren is unproven, Leur and Tele are both decent but they really are better suited to coming off the bench.

[AtheJ415]

Neither is a fading star. It is the situation I am talking about. They are both like Marbury. They both hold back the development of the Suns young players. They are ball hogs and play hero ball every single game. If you cannot see that then Idk what to tell you.

And I need my eyes checked because I said Marbury was better than Bledsoe? What? Okay here are some basic stats for Marbury's career and Bledsoe's career so far:

Marbury's career numbers: 19 ppg, 8 ast, 3 rbs, 43% fg, 33% 3 pts
Bledsoe's career numbers: 12 pgg, 4 ast, 4 rbs, 45% fg, 33% 3 pts

Marbury's numbers for his first six years in the league: 20 pts, 8 ast, 3 rbs, 43% fg, 32% 3 pts
Bledsoe's numbers for his first six years in the league: 12 pgg, 4 ast, 4 rbs, 45% fg, 33% 3 pts (same as his career numbers obviously)

Bledsoe became a starter when he was traded to the Suns prior to his fourth season so I will compare his fourth, fifth, and sixth years to Marbury's fourth, fifth, and sixth years.

Marbury's numbers for years 4,5, and 6: 22 ppg, 8 ast, 3 rbs, 44% fg, 30% 3 pts
Bledsoe's numbers for years 4,5, and 6: 18 ppg, 6 ast, 5 rbs, 46% fg, 35% 3 pts

Marbury scored more and had more assists. The things Bledsoe has on Marbury are rebounds, a slightly higher shooting percentage overall, and a better 3 point percentage. Now the Suns are only a little over a quarter into Bledsoe's sixth season so his numbers may change. Anyway, you can look at Marbury's game logs. During his first years in the league he had multiple 40 point games and even a 50 point game. You think Bledsoe is capable of scoring 50 points? Maybe he is but he has never even had a 40 point game if I remember correctly. Marbury was also 1st team All-Rookie and 3rd team All-NBA twice. He made two all star games during a time with lots of great guards in the league.

Now you can say Marbury's and Bledsoe's stats are comparable but to say I need my eyes checked is ridiculous when Marbury statistically is clearly the better player. But guess what. Everything I just said proves my point exactly. They play so similarly and the Suns went nowhere with Marbury and they have gone nowhere with Bledsoe. They have actually gotten worse two straight years with Bledsoe. Now how is that possible? Hornacek said this is the most talented team by far he has had since he was made coach yet they are tied for the ninth worst record in basketball 24 games into their season.

In the 2003-04 season, the Suns traded Marbury and Hardaway and set Amare, Marion, and Johnson free. Then they signed a pass first point guard in Nash and the rest is history. Do I think the current young Suns players are anywhere near being a Steve Nash type player away from becoming a contender? Not at all. But I absolutely believe that Bledsoe and Knight are detrimental to the development of Len, Warren, and Booker, just like Marbury and Hardaway were to Amare, Marion, and Johnson. Hence why this is the same situation in my eyes. Bledsoe and Knight hogging the ball all the time while the other players languish in the offense.

You need your eye checks because you said Marbury had more talent than Bledsoe. Talent and performance are 2 very different things. Bledsoe's raw talent is drastically better than Marbury's raw talent. You said one is more talented. It's a very different statement.

You also said 2 of the best shooters in the NBA this season aren't good shooters. I can somewhat understand it with Bledsoe because he wasn't a good shooter until this year, but Knight has always been a good shooter ever since high school.

I never said Bledsoe puts up better numbers than Marbury. I never brought up his numbers relative to Marbury at all. Marbury is one of the only players in NBA history to average 19 and 8 for their careers. As unselfish as you claim he is, that remains true.

What point guards, in your opinion, wouldn't hold back our young players who we should get?

How can you say Bledsoe is more talented than Marbury? Seriously. Do you remember Marbury early in his career? His scoring talent was off the charts. He used to destroy people. I can understand if you think their talent is on the same level but to say I need my eyes checked because I disagree with you about this is pretty ridiculous. Look at this random ten game stretch from Marbury's 2000-01 season. November 3 through November 22 he averaged 30 pts, 8 ast, 5 rbs, 53% fg, and 42% 3 pts. That is for ten games. He had seven 30+ point games over that stretch including a 41 point game. Superstar numbers. And that is literally just some random stretch of games I looked at. Bledsoe surely has never had a stretch like that in his career.

Now I say they are not good shooters because they are inconsistent. They are streaky and have occasional great games which brings up their stats. Bledsoe is a career 45% fg and 33% 3pts. Knight is a career 42% fg and 36% 3 pts. Those are not good numbers in my opinion. Not for point guards who are your main scorers if you want to play championship basketball. Especially Knight's 42%. That is just not good.

As far as who I would get to replace them, I have no idea. The league is really screwed up right now. You only have four teams in my eyes that I believe can compete for a championship. Warriors, Spurs, Cavaliers, and maybe the Thunder. That is it. No one else. With that being said, I think the Suns should trade Bledsoe and Knight for young, unproven players. Then start Booker, Warren, and Len every game, and tank the season and go for the number one pick. This garbage form of basketball they play now is stagnant, boring, and unlikable. It is not winning basketball and it never will be. But that is just me. I doubt it will ever happen. This selfish dual point guard lineup is McDonough and Hornacek's doing and I doubt Suns management would ever do what I suggest and start over the right way instead of be a 9th seed every year.

No, you can't say a shooter is a bad shooter because they are inconsistent. Bad shooters don't have the ability to be inconsistent because they can't get high level shooting. On average, Knight is an elite shooter. That is just the truth. You are completely wrong. Bledsoe, this year, is a damn good shooter too. And yes, the physical gifts Bledsoe have trump Marbury, based on every athletic measurement you could possibly find. His skill level, which is developed talent, makes him way better this very season, but your hatred of him clouds your judgment.

What young, unproven players? I just don't understand. There is not a 23 year old 2 guard in this league who is as good as Knight. There is not a PG as good as Bledsoe either under 26 except for maybe Lillard. If there is some mythical unselfish and unproven point guard out there who would position us to win better than Bledsoe, then let's hear it. Because re-building via tank is setting us back another decade. That's where we'd be if you pull it apart now when we're only 1 superstar away, and are winning more often than any other team as young as us except for Utah. If your expectation is for our young team to win more than other veteran teams then your expectations are out of whack.

Tanking is not proven to be the right way. Very few teams have done it successfully. It's basically just OKC in modern basketball.

[letsgosuns]

You need your eye checks because you said Marbury had more talent than Bledsoe. Talent and performance are 2 very different things. Bledsoe's raw talent is drastically better than Marbury's raw talent. You said one is more talented. It's a very different statement.

You also said 2 of the best shooters in the NBA this season aren't good shooters. I can somewhat understand it with Bledsoe because he wasn't a good shooter until this year, but Knight has always been a good shooter ever since high school.

I never said Bledsoe puts up better numbers than Marbury. I never brought up his numbers relative to Marbury at all. Marbury is one of the only players in NBA history to average 19 and 8 for their careers. As unselfish as you claim he is, that remains true.

What point guards, in your opinion, wouldn't hold back our young players who we should get?

How can you say Bledsoe is more talented than Marbury? Seriously. Do you remember Marbury early in his career? His scoring talent was off the charts. He used to destroy people. I can understand if you think their talent is on the same level but to say I need my eyes checked because I disagree with you about this is pretty ridiculous. Look at this random ten game stretch from Marbury's 2000-01 season. November 3 through November 22 he averaged 30 pts, 8 ast, 5 rbs, 53% fg, and 42% 3 pts. That is for ten games. He had seven 30+ point games over that stretch including a 41 point game. Superstar numbers. And that is literally just some random stretch of games I looked at. Bledsoe surely has never had a stretch like that in his career.

Now I say they are not good shooters because they are inconsistent. They are streaky and have occasional great games which brings up their stats. Bledsoe is a career 45% fg and 33% 3pts. Knight is a career 42% fg and 36% 3 pts. Those are not good numbers in my opinion. Not for point guards who are your main scorers if you want to play championship basketball. Especially Knight's 42%. That is just not good.

As far as who I would get to replace them, I have no idea. The league is really screwed up right now. You only have four teams in my eyes that I believe can compete for a championship. Warriors, Spurs, Cavaliers, and maybe the Thunder. That is it. No one else. With that being said, I think the Suns should trade Bledsoe and Knight for young, unproven players. Then start Booker, Warren, and Len every game, and tank the season and go for the number one pick. This garbage form of basketball they play now is stagnant, boring, and unlikable. It is not winning basketball and it never will be. But that is just me. I doubt it will ever happen. This selfish dual point guard lineup is McDonough and Hornacek's doing and I doubt Suns management would ever do what I suggest and start over the right way instead of be a 9th seed every year.

No, you can't say a shooter is a bad shooter because they are inconsistent. Bad shooters don't have the ability to be inconsistent because they can't get high level shooting. On average, Knight is an elite shooter. That is just the truth. You are completely wrong. Bledsoe, this year, is a damn good shooter too. And yes, the physical gifts Bledsoe have trump Marbury, based on every athletic measurement you could possibly find. His skill level, which is developed talent, makes him way better this very season, but your hatred of him clouds your judgment.

What young, unproven players? I just don't understand. There is not a 23 year old 2 guard in this league who is as good as Knight. There is not a PG as good as Bledsoe either under 26 except for maybe Lillard. If there is some mythical unselfish and unproven point guard out there who would position us to win better than Bledsoe, then let's hear it. Because re-building via tank is setting us back another decade. That's where we'd be if you pull it apart now when we're only 1 superstar away, and are winning more often than any other team as young as us except for Utah. If your expectation is for our young team to win more than other veteran teams then your expectations are out of whack.

Tanking is not proven to be the right way. Very few teams have done it successfully. It's basically just OKC in modern basketball.

There you go again telling me I am wrong. You can disagree with me about all these things but why do you say I am wrong? You think Bledsoe and Knight are good shooters, I do not. We have a difference of opinion on it, but neither of us are right or wrong. You telling me I am wrong shows you think your opinion is superior to mine even though I have put basic facts out there to support what I am saying. So there is no way to talk about this because whatever I say to you is worthless based on the fact you hold your opinion of Bledsoe and Knight above mine no matter what statistics I show.

Knight is a career 42% fg shooter. Idk how you can view that as elite but you do. So be it. I disagree. Does that make my opinion worthless because I see it differently than you? How am I supposed to discuss this when you disregard my opinion on its face.

I will just say I think Knight is a good scorer but not a good shooter. There is a difference. I have already posted stats to explain my reasoning so I am not going to post any more because it is a waste of my time since you do not care what I say anyway.