Preseason Game 4 - Phoenix Suns at Utah Jazz

[bwgood77]

I do not think there is any reason to cut Goodwin. He has way too much talent to be someone you flat out just cut from your team. Either keep him or trade him.

So, hate Knight, don't like Bledsoe, Goodwin too much talent.

I know you don't like point guards that are not pure point guards. And he can't shoot. What exactly do you want him for on the Suns for? What purpose will he serve?

[letsgosuns]

I do not think there is any reason to cut Goodwin. He has way too much talent to be someone you flat out just cut from your team. Either keep him or trade him.

So, hate Knight, don't like Bledsoe, Goodwin too much talent.

I know you don't like point guards that are not pure point guards. And he can't shoot. What exactly do you want him for on the Suns for? What purpose will he serve?

Goodwin has trade value. Why cut a guy off a team when you can trade him. There is no doubt in my mind that the Suns could get at least a future second round pick for him.

[lilfishi22]

I'd say he has just enough talent to not just be waived. He's not exploding with talent.

[kennydorglas]

My main beef with Len is: why in the hell he settles for fancy scores that he clearly cant manage to make?
Maybe he's trying to play up to his top5 pick potential but there's no need for him to even try it.

Just work in the PNR, dive hard for Oreb, cash-in some easy ones and maybe hit a wide open mid range shot.
That's it.

Rebound, box out, protect the paint, rotate well enough to help off others and settle good screens.

Because he knows he's got nothing to offer on the inside so he settles for the "open" midrange J instead. Granted he played against a legit post defender yesterday but his post moves were downright ugly. One of his sky hooks bricked so hard off the backboard, you'd think it was a shot from half court. Honestly, I don't even trust the guy to be in the PnR. Offense just doesn't come natural to him and I think that might be a reality he'll accept in due time. His defense has promise though and he should be focusing on that as much as possible.

He works in the post like Dwight Howard. Wouldnt surprise me if he's attending the 'famous' The Dream Camp.

[bwgood77]

I do not think there is any reason to cut Goodwin. He has way too much talent to be someone you flat out just cut from your team. Either keep him or trade him.

So, hate Knight, don't like Bledsoe, Goodwin too much talent.

I know you don't like point guards that are not pure point guards. And he can't shoot. What exactly do you want him for on the Suns for? What purpose will he serve?

Goodwin has trade value. Why cut a guy off a team when you can trade him. There is no doubt in my mind that the Suns could get at least a future second round pick for him.

Well, of course if he we can get a future second round pick for him, trade him. If not, waive him. Don't hold onto a guy when there are other guys who eventually might contribute to winning in hopes for a future 2nd round pick.

[letsgosuns]

So, hate Knight, don't like Bledsoe, Goodwin too much talent.

I know you don't like point guards that are not pure point guards. And he can't shoot. What exactly do you want him for on the Suns for? What purpose will he serve?

Goodwin has trade value. Why cut a guy off a team when you can trade him. There is no doubt in my mind that the Suns could get at least a future second round pick for him.

Well, of course if he we can get a future second round pick for him, trade him. If not, waive him. Don't hold onto a guy when there are other guys who eventually might contribute to winning in hopes for a future 2nd round pick.

What is the big deal with keeping Goodwin on the team? He is already the third string guard so it is not like he is taking away other players playing time. Plus, even though he is not making much money, it is guaranteed, so why pay him to play for someone else.

[lilfishi22]

Doesn't the other team pick up the tab once he's signed off the waivers by said team?

[bwgood77]

Goodwin has trade value. Why cut a guy off a team when you can trade him. There is no doubt in my mind that the Suns could get at least a future second round pick for him.

Well, of course if he we can get a future second round pick for him, trade him. If not, waive him. Don't hold onto a guy when there are other guys who eventually might contribute to winning in hopes for a future 2nd round pick.

What is the big deal with keeping Goodwin on the team? He is already the third string guard so it is not like he is taking away other players playing time. Plus, even though he is not making much money, it is guaranteed, so why pay him to play for someone else.

Well I'm not paying him. I don't mind keeping him another year or waiving him. I'd probably rather keep Jenkins and Derrick Jones Jr over him, though maybe Jenkins was already cut. Doesn't matter that much too me.

[Damkac]

What Goodwin has done in the end was cool but I felt like they were allowing him to go to the basket to prevent 3 point play. Finally someone make mistake and fouled him for and 1.
I would be OK with keeping him as emergency bench player but I fear he would be complaining about not getting minutes again and that may hurt team chemistry.

[thamadkant]

What Goodwin has done in the end was cool but I felt like they were allowing him to go to the basket to prevent 3 point play. Finally someone make mistake and fouled him for and 1.
I would be OK with keeping him as emergency bench player but I fear he would be complaining about not getting minutes again and that may hurt team chemistry.

And thats the advantage of drawing defenses out... It opens the lane and paint for good slashers.

[bwgood77]

Goodwin has trade value. Why cut a guy off a team when you can trade him. There is no doubt in my mind that the Suns could get at least a future second round pick for him.

Well, of course if he we can get a future second round pick for him, trade him. If not, waive him. Don't hold onto a guy when there are other guys who eventually might contribute to winning in hopes for a future 2nd round pick.

What is the big deal with keeping Goodwin on the team? He is already the third string guard so it is not like he is taking away other players playing time. Plus, even though he is not making much money, it is guaranteed, so why pay him to play for someone else.

Like I said, no big deal, but we've tried him for awhile, have tons of guards and we don't need another one who isn't a particularly good passer and is a terrible shooter. I don't mind that much if we keep him, but there are plenty of other guys out there who didn't get drafted that have a good chance of being better.

[NavLDO]

NavLDO no one is saying everyone on the team played good but Len, they're saying that Len was ESPECIALLY bad compared to everyone else. And yes Len had to see the bench for 11 minutes, he was getting dominated and fouling like crazy. In the first 4 minutes of last night's game, he had a clear path foul, a defensive 3-seconds call, 2 personal fouls, and an additional turnover. He looked terrible coming out and got into foul trouble really early.

And then he came in and looked decent the rest of the time he was in, overall, against a top defender in the league.

The other guys played poorly against Utah's 'non-starters' vs Len playing poorly against one of the best Defensive Centers in the league. That's my point. Then Len gets called out for playing against bench players in the 4th, when that's who our other guys were playing against the whole game.

So explain how that is 'even criticism'...and then he gets blamed for the time he wasn't even in the game. That's rich. Just hilarious. He gets blamed for when he' IN the game; he get's criticized for when he's NOT in the game. Sorry, but that's just complete and utter BS. Players have bad games all the time; it's up to the coach to manage the roster properly. To blame that on Len is flat out ridiculous.

[darealjuice]

NavLDO no one is saying everyone on the team played good but Len, they're saying that Len was ESPECIALLY bad compared to everyone else. And yes Len had to see the bench for 11 minutes, he was getting dominated and fouling like crazy. In the first 4 minutes of last night's game, he had a clear path foul, a defensive 3-seconds call, 2 personal fouls, and an additional turnover. He looked terrible coming out and got into foul trouble really early.

And then he came in and looked decent the rest of the time he was in, overall, against a top defender in the league.

The other guys played poorly against Utah's 'non-starters' vs Len playing poorly against one of the best Defensive Centers in the league. That's my point. Then Len gets called out for playing against bench players in the 4th, when that's who our other guys were playing against the whole game.

So explain how that is 'even criticism'...and then he gets blamed for the time he wasn't even in the game. That's rich. Just hilarious. He gets blamed for when he' IN the game; he get's criticized for when he's NOT in the game. Sorry, but that's just complete and utter BS. Players have bad games all the time; it's up to the coach to manage the roster properly. To blame that on Len is flat out ridiculous.

Can you relax lol? You're getting way too defensive when it comes to talking about Len.

Again, no one is talking about how other guys played, stop putting up straw men (also, how can you honestly say that Len was the only one playing against a Jazz starter lol that's ridiculous?). The fact of the matter is that when Len was on the floor with people who will actually get minutes during the season, he did not look good, not just this game but all preseason. Not just statistically (34.6% from the field through 4 games as a center???), but on the eye test too. He literally scored once with Gobert on the court all of last game off a putback, he has zero effective post moves, he's a liability on pick and roll defense, he's still picking up fouls like crazy. I don't see how you can blame Watson for not "managing the roster properly," Len isn't playing out of position anymore, he literally plays himself off the floor when he picks up 3 fouls before the 1st quarter ends, or do you really think that we wanted to have Chriss at the 5 against Gobert when we took Len out?

Len is going to get criticized because if we keep him in Phoenix after this year, he will be OUR HIGHEST PAID PLAYER. That's just how it is, and if he continues not performing anywhere near those expectations, then people will continue to trash him. No one wants him to be bad. We'd all love to say that we've found out center of the future and move on to solidifying other positions, but performances like this preseason do not strike confidence into anyone. This is his last year of playing before he potentially gets a big paycheck, so he needs to be held accountable when he plays bad. Making excuses for him like "oh he was playing against one of the best defensive centers of course he looked bad" or "it's the coaches fault for not putting him in the position to succeed" just doesn't make sense. This is his 4th year in the league, Gobert was drafted 20 picks later than him in the same draft, yet completely overmatches them every time we play the Jazz. Wouldn't you like to be saying that Len is one of the better centers in the league? That's what we drafted him to be, yet the guy that slips to the end of the 1st round in the same draft is performing at such a level that it's excusable for Alex to get dominated by him?

Tell me, what standard should Len be held to? Should we really be satisfied with him being decent when Gobert, a guy he'll compete with his entire career, is not on the floor?

[bwgood77]

NavLDO no one is saying everyone on the team played good but Len, they're saying that Len was ESPECIALLY bad compared to everyone else. And yes Len had to see the bench for 11 minutes, he was getting dominated and fouling like crazy. In the first 4 minutes of last night's game, he had a clear path foul, a defensive 3-seconds call, 2 personal fouls, and an additional turnover. He looked terrible coming out and got into foul trouble really early.

And then he came in and looked decent the rest of the time he was in, overall, against a top defender in the league.

The other guys played poorly against Utah's 'non-starters' vs Len playing poorly against one of the best Defensive Centers in the league. That's my point. Then Len gets called out for playing against bench players in the 4th, when that's who our other guys were playing against the whole game.

So explain how that is 'even criticism'...and then he gets blamed for the time he wasn't even in the game. That's rich. Just hilarious. He gets blamed for when he' IN the game; he get's criticized for when he's NOT in the game. Sorry, but that's just complete and utter BS. Players have bad games all the time; it's up to the coach to manage the roster properly. To blame that on Len is flat out ridiculous.

Can you relax lol? You're getting way too defensive when it comes to talking about Len.

Again, no one is talking about how other guys played, stop putting up straw men (also, how can you honestly say that Len was the only one playing against a Jazz starter lol that's ridiculous?). The fact of the matter is that when Len was on the floor with people who will actually get minutes during the season, he did not look good, not just this game but all preseason. Not just statistically (34.6% from the field through 4 games as a center???), but on the eye test too. He literally scored once with Gobert on the court all of last game off a putback, he has zero effective post moves, he's a liability on pick and roll defense, he's still picking up fouls like crazy. I don't see how you can blame Watson for not "managing the roster properly," Len isn't playing out of position anymore, he literally plays himself off the floor when he picks up 3 fouls before the 1st quarter ends, or do you really think that we wanted to have Chriss at the 5 against Gobert when we took Len out?

Len is going to get criticized because if we keep him in Phoenix after this year, he will be OUR HIGHEST PAID PLAYER. That's just how it is, and if he continues not performing anywhere near those expectations, then people will continue to trash him. No one wants him to be bad. We'd all love to say that we've found out center of the future and move on to solidifying other positions, but performances like this preseason do not strike confidence into anyone. This is his last year of playing before he potentially gets a big paycheck, so he needs to be held accountable when he plays bad. Making excuses for him like "oh he was playing against one of the best defensive centers of course he looked bad" or "it's the coaches fault for not putting him in the position to succeed" just doesn't make sense. This is his 4th year in the league, Gobert was drafted 20 picks later than him in the same draft, yet completely overmatches them every time we play the Jazz. Wouldn't you like to be saying that Len is one of the better centers in the league? That's what we drafted him to be, yet the guy that slips to the end of the 1st round in the same draft is performing at such a level that it's excusable for Alex to get dominated by him?

Tell me, what standard should Len be held to? Should we really be satisfied with him being decent when Gobert, a guy he'll compete with his entire career, is not on the floor?

Any argument that he is offensively better than Gobert (I believe this was an argument before) goes out the window of course, especially when "he was the only one playing against a starter".

I hope he gets better, but people should see it as it is. We did terrible in that draft with both picks.

[Villalobos]

Don't really know how you can do terrible with the 30th pick or second round picks outside of selling them for cash. You're lucky to get a half-decent bench player with those.

[GMATCallahan]

I do not think there is any reason to cut Goodwin. He has way too much talent to be someone you flat out just cut from your team. Either keep him or trade him.

I concur, especially given that you never know if the Suns might trade one or more of their veteran guards. Plus, Bledsoe and Knight have both dealt with injuries. But I doubt that Goodwin would fetch more than a second-round pick, and possibly a low second-round pick at that.

[NavLDO]

NavLDO no one is saying everyone on the team played good but Len, they're saying that Len was ESPECIALLY bad compared to everyone else. And yes Len had to see the bench for 11 minutes, he was getting dominated and fouling like crazy. In the first 4 minutes of last night's game, he had a clear path foul, a defensive 3-seconds call, 2 personal fouls, and an additional turnover. He looked terrible coming out and got into foul trouble really early.

And then he came in and looked decent the rest of the time he was in, overall, against a top defender in the league.

The other guys played poorly against Utah's 'non-starters' vs Len playing poorly against one of the best Defensive Centers in the league. That's my point. Then Len gets called out for playing against bench players in the 4th, when that's who our other guys were playing against the whole game.

So explain how that is 'even criticism'...and then he gets blamed for the time he wasn't even in the game. That's rich. Just hilarious. He gets blamed for when he' IN the game; he get's criticized for when he's NOT in the game. Sorry, but that's just complete and utter BS. Players have bad games all the time; it's up to the coach to manage the roster properly. To blame that on Len is flat out ridiculous.

Can you relax lol? You're getting way too defensive when it comes to talking about Len.

Again, no one is talking about how other guys played, stop putting up straw men (also, how can you honestly say that Len was the only one playing against a Jazz starter lol that's ridiculous?).

D. Favors
DNP-LEFT KNEE

G. Hayward
DNP-FINGER INJURY

R. Hood
DNP-LEFT HAND

They were the starters last year. Next.

The fact of the matter is that when Len was on the floor with people who will actually get minutes during the season, he did not look good, not just this game but all preseason. Not just statistically (34.6% from the field through 4 games as a center???), but on the eye test too. He literally scored once with Gobert on the court all of last game off a putback, he has zero effective post moves, he's a liability on pick and roll defense, he's still picking up fouls like crazy. I don't see how you can blame Watson for not "managing the roster properly," Len isn't playing out of position anymore, he literally plays himself off the floor when he picks up 3 fouls before the 1st quarter ends, or do you really think that we wanted to have Chriss at the 5 against Gobert when we took Len out?

Len is going to get criticized because if we keep him in Phoenix after this year, he will be OUR HIGHEST PAID PLAYER. That's just how it is, and if he continues not performing anywhere near those expectations, then people will continue to trash him. No one wants him to be bad. We'd all love to say that we've found out center of the future and move on to solidifying other positions, but performances like this preseason do not strike confidence into anyone. This is his last year of playing before he potentially gets a big paycheck, so he needs to be held accountable when he plays bad. Making excuses for him like "oh he was playing against one of the best defensive centers of course he looked bad" or "it's the coaches fault for not putting him in the position to succeed" just doesn't make sense. This is his 4th year in the league, Gobert was drafted 20 picks later than him in the same draft, yet completely overmatches them every time we play the Jazz. Wouldn't you like to be saying that Len is one of the better centers in the league? That's what we drafted him to be, yet the guy that slips to the end of the 1st round in the same draft is performing at such a level that it's excusable for Alex to get dominated by him?

Tell me, what standard should Len be held to? Should we really be satisfied with him being decent when Gobert, a guy he'll compete with his entire career, is not on the floor?

Hey, I got an idea...let's wait until then. You are worried about something that isn't going to happen if he plays like this through the year, so why are you so worried about it?? And you're telling me to calm down??? You and everyone else is freaking out about something that will never happen, meaning Len signing as our highest paid player if he continues to play poorly.

But you go on defending posters who blame the poor play of a team for the time Len's not on the court. And I'm not defending his poor play; just the fact that he's singled out exclusively when he sucked against one of the NBA's best players, while others sucked againt scrubs, and not a peep.