The Half Season Rookie Review

[bwgood77]

Forgive my ignorance but isn't Chris's also playing with starters. I've never really understood the argument and I've seen it plenty.

I'm not sure what the argument you're referring to is

"Player X's advanced stats are going to be worse because he is playing against starters."

Yes, playing against starters should make it tougher, but playing WITH better players (ie-starters), should make your job easier as well, so it should balance out.

I can't imagine Bender benefits too much much, despite playing more against backups, having to stand around and watch Knight.

[lilfishi22]

I'm not sure what the argument you're referring to is

"Player X's advanced stats are going to be worse because he is playing against starters."

Yes, playing against starters should make it tougher, but playing WITH better players (ie-starters), should make your job easier as well, so it should balance out.

I can't imagine Bender benefits too much much, despite playing more against backups, having to stand around and watch Knight.

http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/teamstats/17/6/diffeff/1-1

It may balance out if our starters were a top 10 starting 5 in the league but metrics show our starters are below average across the board. On average opposing starters score 78ppg against us while our starters score 71ppg (2nd last in the NBA). Our opposing starters also shooting the highest FG% against us as well (almost .49FG%). Our starters get out-assisted (11.9apg vs 15.8apg - 28th in NBA), out-rebounded (26.8rpg vs 28.3rpg), out-shot overall (.458fg% vs .489fg% - last in the NBA) and from the 3 (.343% 3PT vs .399% 3PT - last in NBA)

Our bench on the other hand is fairly middle of the road. Our bench marginally outscores opposing benches by 1ppg which you could say it's a wash. Our bench doesn't shoot as well as opposing benches( .427fg% vs .443fg%) but we get more opportunities (31.2fga vs 28.2fga) by out-rebounding (17.5rpg vs 14.8rpg).

While our starters are more talented individually than our bench, they are also playing considerably worse as a team against opposing starters. Our bench however, matches up fairly evenly against opposing benches. In this case, Chriss playing with below average starters would affect his own contributions more so than Bender who, on average, plays against more evenly matched opponents. To me, it would make sense for Bender to be a marginally more productive because of the competition he's playing the majority of his minutes against vs Chriss who plays against better starting 5's.

Does this argument stack up?

[batsmasher]

"Player X's advanced stats are going to be worse because he is playing against starters."

Yes, playing against starters should make it tougher, but playing WITH better players (ie-starters), should make your job easier as well, so it should balance out.

I can't imagine Bender benefits too much much, despite playing more against backups, having to stand around and watch Knight.

http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/teamstats/17/6/diffeff/1-1

It may balance out if our starters were a top 10 starting 5 in the league but metrics show our starters are below average across the board. On average opposing starters score 78ppg against us while our starters score 71ppg (2nd last in the NBA). Our opposing starters also shooting the highest FG% against us as well (almost .49FG%). Our starters get out-assisted (11.9apg vs 15.8apg - 28th in NBA), out-rebounded (26.8rpg vs 28.3rpg), out-shot overall (.458fg% vs .489fg% - last in the NBA) and from the 3 (.343% 3PT vs .399% 3PT - last in NBA)

Our bench on the other hand is fairly middle of the road. Our bench marginally outscores opposing benches by 1ppg which you could say it's a wash. Our bench doesn't shoot as well as opposing benches( .427fg% vs .443fg%) but we get more opportunities (31.2fga vs 28.2fga) by out-rebounding (17.5rpg vs 14.8rpg).

While our starters are more talented individually than our bench, they are also playing considerably worse as a team against opposing starters. Our bench however, matches up fairly evenly against opposing benches. In this case, Chriss playing with below average starters would affect his own contributions more so than Bender who, on average, plays against more evenly matched opponents. To me, it would make sense for Bender to be a marginally more productive because of the competition he's playing the majority of his minutes against vs Chriss who plays against better starting 5's.

Does this argument stack up?

It does. But I can't get over just how bad Marquese is with the starters. These are the worst 3 man lineups with > 300 mins. Marquese is without a doubt making the starters worse. Our bench would probably have issues if he didn't start too.

[Qwigglez]

That is shocking, but doesn't come as a surprise to me.

[jcsunsfan]

This is fascinating to look at.
http://stats.nba.com/lineups/traditional/#!?Season=2016-17&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612756&sort=PLUS_MINUS&dir=1&PerMode=Totals&CF=GROUP_NAME*E*&DateFrom=01%2F01%2F2017&DateTo=02%2F28%2F2017&GroupQuantity=3

Marquese Chriss has been our stealth tank this year. He is in almost all of our poor three man combos, and in hardly any plus three man combos. Bender rates better.

So, we have been tanking from the beginning of the year by playing Chriss. If we really wanted wins, he would be on the bench. You can bet the Suns stats guys know this.