Game 13: Orlando Magic at Phoenix Suns, Friday, November 10th, 7PM MST

[TOO]

Ill say it once again, We need to quit with James/Ulis and run Booker at PG in that DWade role. He should have complete control of the ball and who ends up with it. He is our best shooter/scorer. He has that offensive game and is a legitimate threat. He is the face of the franchise. He is the team leader. Put the damn ball in his hands and let him work his magic. If he can score, he will. If he cant, that likely means he is being double teamed and i trust him getting the ball to the open man a hell of a lot more than i do James/Ulis.

These past 10 games or so i have really noticed that Booker gets a lack of touches. The ball should touch his hands every play, whether he shoots it or not. The main issue is that the defense has an easy time stifling our point guards and denying Booker the ball. Its not just the point guards, but almost all the other players besides Booker. The opposing teams D shuts them down so they can pass it to Booker. Either they double team the ball handler, or they have 2 guys on Booker himself. This is whats been happening as they are fine leaving Len somewhat unguarded around the FT line, or leaving Warren open from that corner 3 that he bricks 4 times a night, or slacking off on Bender at the 3 knowing that he is most likely going to be hesitant to shoot the ball and end up just passing it around the perimeter. The defense slacks off on all these guys in these spots and concentrates on denying Booker the ball.

So let him run the damn point and put the ball in his hands as soon as we inbound the ball. Its what Miami did with Wade and it worked WONDERS (And Wade wasnt even as good of a shooter as Booker, but he knew how to score, whether it was taking it to the rim and converting or drawing the contact).

When a team is having a hard time getting the ball to their star player, they have them run the point. Wade. Lebron. Westbrook. Harden. The guards that played next to them usually acted as a secondary ball handler, not the tradition PG role.

Booker/Jackson/Warren/Bender/Chriss <--- Or even replace Chris with Monroe once he comes back.

As Lowe pointed out, Booker eventually would probably play better off ball, but that would be if we had a legit point guard. Regardless, he does need to touch it every posession within reason.

But with our current options, I'd be fine running him at the point right now given our other options. We can't have too much of James and Ulis not passing it at all. James has been fairly efficient lately but he's not really helping the development of our young guys.

But you mentioned "that if Booker can If he can score, he will. If he cant, that likely means he is being double teamed and i trust him getting the ball to the open man" which I agree with, but I still think he needs to initiate ball movement as well and run the team. Not just revert to iso ball himself. The other guys are just not initiating ball movement more. He will. But you have to take James and Ulis completely out at that point so it doesn't stop.

The only problem is that Book has been very turnover prone. James has not really been turnover prone...but he doesn't look for his teammates enough and eventually (if it hasn't already) it will carry over into how much the guys trust or want to play with James.

And Warren doesn't brick 4 3's a game. He's only shot 18 in 13 game. You're obviously not a Warren fan but you don't need to keep simply making things up to support some kind of case you want to make.

He's TO prone because he's not a PG. He can't even handle a trap. As soon as the Suns try to make him a PG, the whole league will trap him, essentially taking him out of the game. He's not unguardable with the ball like Wade or Harden, that's why it wont work. We'd end up with the same crap we have now because he'd need constant screens and help to get open as he'd be not only the go to scorer but the lead ball handler. It's a bad idea. Lowe understands this.

[bwgood77]

Ill say it once again, We need to quit with James/Ulis and run Booker at PG in that DWade role. He should have complete control of the ball and who ends up with it. He is our best shooter/scorer. He has that offensive game and is a legitimate threat. He is the face of the franchise. He is the team leader. Put the damn ball in his hands and let him work his magic. If he can score, he will. If he cant, that likely means he is being double teamed and i trust him getting the ball to the open man a hell of a lot more than i do James/Ulis.

These past 10 games or so i have really noticed that Booker gets a lack of touches. The ball should touch his hands every play, whether he shoots it or not. The main issue is that the defense has an easy time stifling our point guards and denying Booker the ball. Its not just the point guards, but almost all the other players besides Booker. The opposing teams D shuts them down so they can pass it to Booker. Either they double team the ball handler, or they have 2 guys on Booker himself. This is whats been happening as they are fine leaving Len somewhat unguarded around the FT line, or leaving Warren open from that corner 3 that he bricks 4 times a night, or slacking off on Bender at the 3 knowing that he is most likely going to be hesitant to shoot the ball and end up just passing it around the perimeter. The defense slacks off on all these guys in these spots and concentrates on denying Booker the ball.

So let him run the damn point and put the ball in his hands as soon as we inbound the ball. Its what Miami did with Wade and it worked WONDERS (And Wade wasnt even as good of a shooter as Booker, but he knew how to score, whether it was taking it to the rim and converting or drawing the contact).

When a team is having a hard time getting the ball to their star player, they have them run the point. Wade. Lebron. Westbrook. Harden. The guards that played next to them usually acted as a secondary ball handler, not the tradition PG role.

Booker/Jackson/Warren/Bender/Chriss <--- Or even replace Chris with Monroe once he comes back.

As Lowe pointed out, Booker eventually would probably play better off ball, but that would be if we had a legit point guard. Regardless, he does need to touch it every posession within reason.

But with our current options, I'd be fine running him at the point right now given our other options. We can't have too much of James and Ulis not passing it at all. James has been fairly efficient lately but he's not really helping the development of our young guys.

But you mentioned "that if Booker can If he can score, he will. If he cant, that likely means he is being double teamed and i trust him getting the ball to the open man" which I agree with, but I still think he needs to initiate ball movement as well and run the team. Not just revert to iso ball himself. The other guys are just not initiating ball movement more. He will. But you have to take James and Ulis completely out at that point so it doesn't stop.

The only problem is that Book has been very turnover prone. James has not really been turnover prone...but he doesn't look for his teammates enough and eventually (if it hasn't already) it will carry over into how much the guys trust or want to play with James.

And Warren doesn't brick 4 3's a game. He's only shot 18 in 13 game. You're obviously not a Warren fan but you don't need to keep simply making things up to support some kind of case you want to make.

He's TO prone because he's not a PG. He can't even handle a trap. As soon as the Suns try to make him a PG, the whole league will trap him, essentially taking him out of the game. He's not unguardable with the ball like Wade or Harden, that's why it wont work. We'd end up with the same crap we have now because he'd need constant screens and help to get open as he'd be not only the go to scorer but the lead ball handler. It's a bad idea. Lowe understands this.

Which is the primary reason I don't think it's the best idea long term, at least from what we know. But I don't really like our current PG options either.

I'm hoping he is turning the corner in regards to turnovers and figuring these things out, since he had 38 assists to 31 turnovers this season prior to that last two games, and then he went 6/0 and 5/2 so is 11 assists to 2 turnovers in his last two. I THINK his passing while avoiding turnovers and not turning over on traps is getting better.

In any case, we desperately need a better PG.

[JDLAW]

This game was horrible. I very seldom talk about referees, it’s a difficult job but we don’t help at all. In this game the referees were poor and every close call went against the Suns. That exchange at the end of the 3rd where Booker was called for a charge, followed by a blocking foul at the other end, were 2 terrible calls. This gets in the collective head of a young team.

There is no movement in the Suns offense. That makes it easy to defend them – just stand next to your player. There is little passing. I saw nearly a dozen times where James and Ulis dribbled up the court and took a shot without anyone else touching the ball. There was another half a dozen times where Ulis or James just dribbled out the clock head down, going in circles, and then forcing up a shot. Way too much dribbling and way to many possessions where there were 0-1 pass.

The Suns had a pathetic 13 total assists. Booker had 5 assists in the game, and it could have been 10 if the others on the team could finish the play. In contrast, our "point guards" Ulis and James combined for 5 assists. And while it doesn’t count as an assist he made passes that led to scoring through a foul. He played exactly the way he is supposed to. When double-teamed, he passed the ball to an open player. The ball never returned to him. His shooting wasn’t great tonight, but he only took 10 shots and none.

I saw multiple other passes from our point guards that were at Len’s or Warren’s ankles and passes going to open players on the perimeter that forced the player to reach or bend to receive thereby taking the player out of his rhythm.

Rather than just bitch about things, I’ll offer my 2 cents. Change the starters and rotations. Starters going forward should be; Booker, Jackson, Warren, Chriss and Len.

yup.


Suns and their obsession with scoring PGs is hurting the others develop.... I mean, it wouldnt be so bad if the scoring PGs are stars... but Ulis and James are for the lack of a better word ..terrible.

Booker as PG will work better, because he can launch a shot off the dribble, from the 3pt line or slash... he will keep defenses on their toes and jittery. Unlike James and Ulis, who dribble around... HOLDs the ball, WAITS for the defense to settle and seal open lanes and players.... ABSOLUTE crap house show.

You criticize for an obsession with scoring point guards and then support Booker at the point so he can score more. Seems kinda contradictory.

Ulis is not a scoring pg. it’s hard to find a true distributing pg these days, and if you do, it’s because they are poor shooters (Rubio). They tried to draft a distributor in Ball, wanted to trade for one in Brogdon. It’s not an obsession with scoring pg’s. It’s the inability to find a good distributor.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

Please don't misinterpret what I wrote. I have a problem with our two point guards. They are not very good either offensively or defensively. I don't care if the point guard is a scorer so long as he is also a distributor who gets his teammates involved and there is good movement on the offense, our point guards don't do this. I never had a problem with our "scoring" point guards KJ, Nash, Dragic, even Bledsoe.

My thought is that if the Suns let Booker initiate the offense there would be more passing and cutting movement back, which ultimately leads to better shots for him and others.

[sunsfever68]

As Lowe pointed out, Booker eventually would probably play better off ball, but that would be if we had a legit point guard. Regardless, he does need to touch it every posession within reason.

But with our current options, I'd be fine running him at the point right now given our other options. We can't have too much of James and Ulis not passing it at all. James has been fairly efficient lately but he's not really helping the development of our young guys.

But you mentioned "that if Booker can If he can score, he will. If he cant, that likely means he is being double teamed and i trust him getting the ball to the open man" which I agree with, but I still think he needs to initiate ball movement as well and run the team. Not just revert to iso ball himself. The other guys are just not initiating ball movement more. He will. But you have to take James and Ulis completely out at that point so it doesn't stop.

The only problem is that Book has been very turnover prone. James has not really been turnover prone...but he doesn't look for his teammates enough and eventually (if it hasn't already) it will carry over into how much the guys trust or want to play with James.

And Warren doesn't brick 4 3's a game. He's only shot 18 in 13 game. You're obviously not a Warren fan but you don't need to keep simply making things up to support some kind of case you want to make.

He's TO prone because he's not a PG. He can't even handle a trap. As soon as the Suns try to make him a PG, the whole league will trap him, essentially taking him out of the game. He's not unguardable with the ball like Wade or Harden, that's why it wont work. We'd end up with the same crap we have now because he'd need constant screens and help to get open as he'd be not only the go to scorer but the lead ball handler. It's a bad idea. Lowe understands this.

Which is the primary reason I don't think it's the best idea long term, at least from what we know. But I don't really like our current PG options either.

I'm hoping he is turning the corner in regards to turnovers and figuring these things out, since he had 38 assists to 31 turnovers this season prior to that last two games, and then he went 6/0 and 5/2 so is 11 assists to 2 turnovers in his last two. I THINK his passing while avoiding turnovers and not turning over on traps is getting better.

In any case, we desperately need a better PG.

Def need a PG. If only we had someone like Isaiah Thomas, Goran Dragic, or Eric Bledsoe LOL

All jokes aside, I want us to tank and draft DeAndre Ayton a stud big man alot harder to find than a PG.

Hopefully we get a top 5 pick ourselves and then move all our extra picks and maybe Chriss+Ulis for another top 5 pick and take Doncic to run PG.

Doncic Booker Jackson Bender Ayton sounds good to me.

[Revived]

I think James is fine but he really is just a solid bench player in the mold of Eddie House.

Only issue I see with starting Jackson is his poor 3pt shooting but would be worth a shot I guess.

Mike James is a Jamal Crawford type player. He should be coming off the bench, not starting. And on the nights he’s off, his minutes need to be limited early on.

Ulis has struggled this season but between the two, Ulis has more PG skills than James does.

[bwgood77]

He's TO prone because he's not a PG. He can't even handle a trap. As soon as the Suns try to make him a PG, the whole league will trap him, essentially taking him out of the game. He's not unguardable with the ball like Wade or Harden, that's why it wont work. We'd end up with the same crap we have now because he'd need constant screens and help to get open as he'd be not only the go to scorer but the lead ball handler. It's a bad idea. Lowe understands this.

Which is the primary reason I don't think it's the best idea long term, at least from what we know. But I don't really like our current PG options either.

I'm hoping he is turning the corner in regards to turnovers and figuring these things out, since he had 38 assists to 31 turnovers this season prior to that last two games, and then he went 6/0 and 5/2 so is 11 assists to 2 turnovers in his last two. I THINK his passing while avoiding turnovers and not turning over on traps is getting better.

In any case, we desperately need a better PG.

Def need a PG. If only we had someone like Isaiah Thomas, Goran Dragic, or Eric Bledsoe LOL

All jokes aside, I want us to tank and draft DeAndre Ayton a stud big man alot harder to find than a PG.

Hopefully we get a top 5 pick ourselves and then move all our extra picks and maybe Chriss+Ulis for another top 5 pick and take Doncic to run PG.

Doncic Booker Jackson Bender Ayton sounds good to me.

If we can get one top 5 pick I'll be happy. No one will trade out, even if we had the 8th and 11th picks to trade up. We might be hard pressed to get a top 5 pick without a little luck with the Bulls, Hawks, Mavs and Kings in the mix. The Kings hit a buzzer beater the other night though, but those teams all are really bad. If we finish better than those 4 than we'd sit in the 5th draft slot and if you sit there your best lottery odds are to drop to 6th.

And of course the Nets, Lakers and others could finish worse as well.

Hopefully no matter where we finish this is the year jump to top 3. It would be nice to get Doncic and then have the Heat pick be like 8th or 9th and get a guy like Robert Williams there. Or if we get Bamba or Ayton at 3 or something we could take Collin Sexton or someone maybe with the Heat pick. Bamba sounds really impressive. Did you read the story WeekapaugGroove posted in the NBA Draft thread? I highly suggest reading it. Very interesting stuff. Smart kid.

[Beetlejuice]

I watched today bos@okc to get a sense what is really happening with boston this year.

Im still glad we didnt make a trade for Irving, he got into all kinds of trouble guarding Westbrook 1st half (like into a trouble our PG-s would get), a simple screen and he was totally out of the play. 2nd half they hid him on a corner guy. "Miraculously" thats when Boston comeback happened.

I mean pairing his D in okc game with our defense , it would have been a unmitigated disaster.

One of my buddies looked at advanced stats and said hey man chriss isnt so bad, he has the best defensive DBPM (https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/PHO/2018.html) numbers of our squad.

I laughed HA HA HA u silly guy,
to rebut him i thought of a good suns player who is good on D right now...
and then i was sad