Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 5

[RaisingArizona]

My opinion and wanting to win is trolling yet rooting for us to keep sucking is encouraged. This place is backwards.

[Cutter]

There is no need to respond to their nonsense at this point.

How is immediately building around our star and sidekick nonsense?

We are building around him. Continually coming to the forum insinuating/hinting and saying Booker is going to leave the Suns is basically trolling. You go to any other team forum and say their rookie contract guy is going to leave the team at some point because they suck isn't adding anything. And it's gotten repetitive.

Why is this trolling? I, and others, have said the same thing and agree with this sentiment. I think it is irresponsible to casually assume that, in the next 4 years, we are going to draft another star caliber player that quickly develops then somehow magically trade for or sign other top tier players so we can build a competitive team around Booker. Again, all of this taking in place in the next few short years. If we can sign or trade now for star level talent, or one level right below star level, we should do it.

There are so many examples of star players leaving teams that already have a ton of talent around them, that for me it is easy to see Booker requesting a trade towards the end of his 2nd contract.

[Cutter]

My opinion and wanting to win is trolling yet rooting for us to keep sucking is encouraged. This place is backwards.

This wins best post on the forum!

[WeekapaugGroove]

My opinion and wanting to win is trolling yet rooting for us to keep sucking is encouraged. This place is backwards.

Or some people simply have nuanced thoughts and don't boil it down to binary either you want kemba right now or you want to lose for years.

[darealjuice]

My opinion and wanting to win is trolling yet rooting for us to keep sucking is encouraged. This place is backwards.

Or some people simply have nuanced thoughts and don't boil it down to binary either you want kemba right now or you want to lose for years.

Seriously. People for Kemba like to pretend that people who don't want him now are trying to lose for years, that not trading for Kemba now means we're going to be bad forever, and that this is the only chance we'll ever have to trade for a player that fits our team.

[Mulhollanddrive]

I'm sold on the idea of adopting a Dantoni style offense with Booker if we get the right pieces.

[Waylay13]

I'm sold on the idea of adopting a Dantoni style offense with Booker if we get the right pieces.

Personally I am more in the favor of taking everything we can from the Warriors.

[Blonde]

I'm sold on the idea of adopting a Dantoni style offense with Booker if we get the right pieces.

Personally I am more in the favor of taking everything we can from the Warriors.

The Warriors are what they are because they have all time great shooters and unselfishness. It cannot be replicated. And the only reason they even got to where they are is luck: Curry's bad ankles allowing them to retain their core and an all time act of cowardice.

[WeekapaugGroove]

What the warriors run isn't that far off from dantonis system. Its a pace and space o but they just run less pick and roll than mikes teams did/do.

[Waylay13]

There is nothing that is cant be replicated about unselfishness. it is amazing how unselfishness leads to better shooting.

[lilfishi22]

The amount of draftpick fapping is out of control here. The poll question is basically do you want to be good next year or not. And overwhelmingly no, "fans" don't.

I don't think that's the case at all, most of us feel walker isnt good for the franchise long or short term at this point in time.

First, it was Kyrie wasn't good enough; the current leading scoring PG. Now it's Kemba, the current 6th leading scoring PG isn't good for the Suns. Both are 'all-star-level' talents.

Fans here are talking about getting high-scoring Guard help in here to help out Booker, and here comes along a 27-YO PG who's avg'd 22 pts/gm over the past 3 years. We also want distributors, and Kemba is avg'ing 5.8 asst/gm this season--6.4 in January.

Would I like him to be a bit stronger 3PT shooter? Yeah, but he shoots 7 att/gm. He's also known to be a hard worker, and is consistently improving.

Doesn't matter. The majority here will be correct...and 'happy', while the few of us will wrong, and unhappy, because McD will goon up this opportunity as well.

I'm not one to want to go after every FA/Trade target that becomes available; I'm really not, but I've been in favor of Kemba for months. He fits close enough to the age range, he's a great player, he'll likely attract at least one other high-level player, and we'll get him for the next year and a half for peanuts, allowing us to go after another big name target. Some thing that Dragic, or Hill, won't allow us to do, and isn't close enough to our ideal age range.

Kemba is one of the youngest proven PGs out there, the other we passed on this summer, and Lillard is not likely to come on the market. So yeah, to me, this is a fantastic opportunity to get better. Because when we miss out on Doncic and/or Young, or they disappoint after we do draft them, like JJ has (no, JJ hasn't, but shhhh, don't tell the forever tanker, immediate-gratification-types that...)

Seriously. For all of you wanting Young or Doncic, or whoever else other draft prospect you are salivating over, that you are afraid that Kemba will ruin your chances of getting??? Well, be prepared for the fact that there's a good chance that player won't be good in his first 20-30 games either, which, in turn, will continue to likely delay JJ's, Bender, and Chriss' development further. Be careful what you wish for...because JJ didn't come in guns-a-blazin either, as originally thought by some.

I was waiting for someone to bring up this comparison because most know I was very pro-kyrie. But there's a huge difference between Kemba and Kyrie.

1. Kyrie is 25. Kemba is already 27
2. Kyrie is a legit All-star. Kemba is a borderline all-star
3. Kyrie would've cost us a 1st in a good draft. Asking price for Kemba is probably a 1st in an even better draft.
4. Both guys will need a new deal next offseason and I'd much rather pay a younger , more experienced and better Kyrie more money than Kemba for $30m a yr.

On the surface it seems like a good comparison but it isn't really the same situation.

[lilfishi22]

Back to the dark side, eh ginobiliflops? What, was three bad losses too much for ya? Ya gone soft ginobiliflops??

I see we just won a game, and suddenly the rest of the board is dreaming of the playoffs. What wonders one game can achieve. Funny world. We're a funny species, I guess.

Fo real though this Kemba **** is stupid af.

I think McD had his eyes set on drafting this year, else he would have picked up a PG earlier on. As it is, we stand a real good chance of drafting in the top 8... and that would yield at least Porter, Sexton, or Jackson. May be someone else falls, but if McD has his eyes on Sexton or piping for Young, I dont think there is anyway he makes an all out attempt at Kemba. If he can steal him then may be , but he'd have to feel he wins that deal as his last attempt for a PG blew up in his face. McD is stingy.

I think both Young and sexton have NBA skills and would fit in nicely from the get go. And both would cause a rippling excitement for the organization. I'd like to see more of Sexton... the more I read, the better he sounds. I shied away initially with the Bledsoe comparison from one site... but the dude seems to be a tenacious baller.

Now if both are gone, the consolation prize isn't bad either. This draft seems to have guys who have good BBall IQ and not heavy with projects like Len, Chris, and Bender. Of course then we'd need to get a PG... or would we ? There is no way McD shelves BKnight and just eats that deal. Ideally, a rookie PG would play behind Knight till he takes over. Competition would be good for both. We are set at SG and SF...and Im betting Chandler sticks around. I wouldn't cry if we got Bamba and then picked up one of Shai G-A, Milton, or TBrown with a later pick... those guys are long good athletes who I think would pair well with Book. Thats the main thing... all additions need to compliment Booker.

of course, come March (and the madness) is when the drafters start drooling and guys rise and fall. But not getting Kemba isn't such a blow.... not at what he'll likely cost up front and more so the 25-30 mill a year he'll demand/wants. Why do you think Charlotte is dealing him ? Its not his play, its his upcoming paycheck.

Yeah, but that's because they've blown their money on Batum and Howard. We haven't, and can get Kemba, get a 'big prize' this off-season, then pay Kemba and Booker next season, with JJ and Bender (Assuming we would have to trade Warren, who's on a great contract, and a young player like Bender, plus maybe Miami's pick.)

I'll ask again, as I did last night. Pretend you are Boogie, and McD approaches you over the summer:

"Hey, we've got Booker, Warren, Chriss, JJ and Bender, and this rookie PG and Center...we'll figure out the depth later, but we think this PG kid is good..."

or

"Hey, we've got Kemba and Booker, so 50 pts + 10 assts, with JJ and Chriss at the Forwards...you'll be our Cornerstone at the 5, and complete our Big 3."

What's going to be more enticing to you???

Neither, I'd stay with the Pels if those are my choices.

[jredsaz]

I'm not one to want to go after every FA/Trade target that becomes available; I'm really not, but I've been in favor of Kemba for months. He fits close enough to the age range, he's a great player, he'll likely attract at least one other high-level player, and we'll get him for the next year and a half for peanuts, allowing us to go after another big name target. Some thing that Dragic, or Hill, won't allow us to do, and isn't close enough to our ideal age range.

The only reason they put Kemba on the block is because they wanted to get rid of long term bad contracts. I've seen a number of people across the forums ignore this.

If we did somehow trade for him, you can be sure we'd have to take back enough bad money to deplete and eat up all of our cap space. It's convenient to ignore to help your argument but that's what they will trade him for. Woj has let it be known what they want to accomplish with a potential trade.

If we traded for him, we have this other long term contract and our team is pretty much a finished product and then soon we'd have a couple of guys on max deals and that would be it for our team.

This is true. Zero chance they deal walker without attaching a bad contract. Zero

Charlotte fans feel like attaching a bad contract devalues Walker and would rather keep the salary in order to extract a better asset.

[Mulhollanddrive]

My guess is that Jordan wants Trae Young.

[jredsaz]

Saw this in the main forum. It's basically saying the Jazz expect to deal Hood by the deadline. He's a RFA this summer.
Some think he'll be obtainable for a 1st and a cap filler.
Would he do anything for us and would it even be worth going for him considering he's going to break the bank this summer, most likely?

https://www.sltrib.com/sports/jazz/2018/01/20/jazz-looking-to-trade-rodney-hood-before-nbas-deadline/

I like Hood a lot next to Booker and Warren. Not a lot of FA money out there this summer so the likelihood of having to match a large offer decreases. I would consider sending the Miami pick.

[bwgood77]

IDK if Kemba is the right player, but I would love to get a good PG to start for us now and next season.

I do not care how good are Trae Young or Doncic...even if we are lucky enough to get one of them (I doubt it) they are not gonna be good enough to start for a playoff team in the NBA.

Look Jamal Murray...he is great and in his second season is playing well as a starter, but he was mediocre at best as a rookie. A lot of other examples are out there in the league.

It is soooo difficult to be a playoff team with a rookie PG starting...nearly impossible. And we want to fight for the playoffs seriously next season.

I want an starting PG who has played already in the NBA. If we draft Doncic or Young they can play backup minutes and if they play outstanding basketball we can always trade that veteran starting PG. Not a problem at all.

I don't know if Young or Doncic could start as a rookie on a playoff team but they are both a heck of a lot better prospects than Jamal freakin Murray was. He doesn't even really pass. What did he average in college, like 2 assists per game?

Murray has the talent to be a really good PG. His passing isn’t much of an issue considering that many of the better PGs today are mostly score first PGs anyway. His assist numbers were low in college because he played next to Fox who was their main distributor while Murray played the 2. And his college assist numbers are irrelevant anyway considering the reigning MVP, who now averages like 10+ in every season, only averaged like 3 assists a game in college and 2 assists per game for his college career.

Jamal Murray is a SG who has mostly struggled shooting. He averages 2.6 apg and 2 to pg in his second year. He is just not a good passer. Westbrook averaged 8 apg and 3.3 to pg in his second year.

Murray was the 7th pick in a pretty bad draft after the top 1 or 2 picks. Murray wasn't even in the same ball park as a prospect as Doncic or Young. Young took an unranked team to one of the best teams in the country, is one of the best shooters in college history, and leads the nation in assists with double digit assists (or rather 9.8 at the moment), which is VERY rare in college. Doncic is the best european prospect ever.

Murray went to the school that has the best recruits in the country and they were not even all that great that year relatively speaking, losing in the 2nd round of the tournament. It was Tyler Ulis, his teammate who won SEC player of the year over him.

Murray may be able to start at G alongside Harris but that's mostly because the offense runs through Jokic who averages 5 apg and Harris also averages 3.3.

[bwgood77]

Nav- are you not aware that the hornets want to send one of those bad contracts with walker or are you just choosing to ignore that fact?

Just because the Hornets want to get rid of some of their bad contracts doesn't mean they are going to, even if they do include Kemba. Did the Bulls get rid of Robin Lopez (a bad contract) when they traded Butler? How about the Knicks when they traded Melo, why didn't they include Joakim Noah? How about the Pacers with George, they could have traded Al Jefferson with him. How about us, why didn't we get rid of Dudley or Chandler along with Bledsoe? What about last year with Boogie, why didn't the Kings also get rid of Kostas Koufos?

This argument where some of you believe it would take taking on a contract such as Marvin Williams, MKG, Batum, or even Dwight just to get Kemba just isn't true.

Look at past deals as of late, it doesn't happen. Why? Because if a team is trying to blow it up, they don't need the immediate cap space anyway because free agents aren't going to go there. On the opposite side of things, the team receiving the star would water their team down, and wouldn't be able to afford to better their team via free agency or they would risk going into the luxury tax to sign their own players. It would be dead money for them.

It is true. They let it be known. It is completely irrelevant what other players got moved for. Those guys mostly got moved because they were not likely to re-sign.

The Hornets have been trying to trade those bad contracts to no avail, so now they are willing to listen to offers with Kemba involved if people are willing to take bad contracts. This has been reported.

Just because people want to pretend it's not true doesn't make it untrue.

[bwgood77]

My opinion and wanting to win is trolling yet rooting for us to keep sucking is encouraged. This place is backwards.

Wanting to win is not trolling and rooting for us to suck is not encouraged. Don't twist words like this and take them out of context.

People coming around and continually saying our star player (who is on a rookie contract and likely to sign a max extension) is going to ask to be traded from Phoenix is trolling. There are warnings given out on other team forums because people go there saying these types of things about their team's stars on occasion. It's been happening a lot here.

Everyone here wants the Suns to be great. The opinions on avenues we should take to get their differ. That is all. I can understand why people want to trade for Kemba and why people would want to focus on internal development and retain our cap space, young players and picks, and not take on bad contracts.

[bwgood77]

How is immediately building around our star and sidekick nonsense?

We are building around him. Continually coming to the forum insinuating/hinting and saying Booker is going to leave the Suns is basically trolling. You go to any other team forum and say their rookie contract guy is going to leave the team at some point because they suck isn't adding anything. And it's gotten repetitive.

Why is this trolling? I, and others, have said the same thing and agree with this sentiment. I think it is irresponsible to casually assume that, in the next 4 years, we are going to draft another star caliber player that quickly develops then somehow magically trade for or sign other top tier players so we can build a competitive team around Booker. Again, all of this taking in place in the next few short years. If we can sign or trade now for star level talent, or one level right below star level, we should do it.

There are so many examples of star players leaving teams that already have a ton of talent around them, that for me it is easy to see Booker requesting a trade towards the end of his 2nd contract.

I don't know that anyone assumes we will draft another star player. I'm sure we all hope we do. Like I have said, many people feel building through the draft and having good team chemistry and retaining cap space is the best way to go for long term success and that you add that player when your team is ready to take that leap to the next level. It's too bad some feel we will just continue to be bad in four years and that our players won't improve and we can't add some more good players in the draft and by making moves when the FO feels the time is right.

[bwgood77]

My opinion and wanting to win is trolling yet rooting for us to keep sucking is encouraged. This place is backwards.

Or some people simply have nuanced thoughts and don't boil it down to binary either you want kemba right now or you want to lose for years.

Seriously. People for Kemba like to pretend that people who don't want him now are trying to lose for years, that not trading for Kemba now means we're going to be bad forever, and that this is the only chance we'll ever have to trade for a player that fits our team.

Yes, it's getting old. Putting words in people's mouths and making assumptions claiming this is what people want. It's not being done the other way around.

I mean we all knew coming into this season what the front office's plans were, and many agree with it and are glad they finally were jumping off the try to get 8th seed and likely treadmill or toil in mediocrity for years. We are finally focusing on a rebuild. It would have been nice had it started a long time ago and we were further along and maybe we could have made better picks but we all want this team to be really good within the next couple of years.