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How Many More Head Coaches Does McDonough get to hire?

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Re: How Many More Head Coaches Does McDonough get to hire? 

Post#41 » by bwgood77 » Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:45 am

Scutt wrote:
Revived wrote:I don’t like Sarver one bit either but I think it’s hilarious that any bad move gets blamed on him while only McD gets the praise for any good move.

A few months or so after McD got hired, Sarver came out and said he’s completely staying out of all basketball operations and letting McD handle it all. He repeated this when the Dragic drama happened because he said “I’ve stayed out of all basketball operations but I wish now that I was involved in some manner because i could’ve perhaps ended this in a better way or found a better solution to this”.

No players have bashed a franchise more than the Suns in the past 5 or so years. We definitely have the worst PR in then league imo and it’s not close. Ryan McDonough has a lot to do with that.


"Sarver said he should have embraced McDonough’s desire to start over with younger players sooner"
https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/nba/suns/2017/07/19/phoenix-suns-robert-sarver-steve-nash/494182001/


Yeah, it's been glaringly obvious Sarver didn't heed by his words about staying out of it.
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Re: How Many More Head Coaches Does McDonough get to hire? 

Post#42 » by suns91fan » Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:06 am

bwgood77 wrote:
Scutt wrote:
Revived wrote:I don’t like Sarver one bit either but I think it’s hilarious that any bad move gets blamed on him while only McD gets the praise for any good move.

A few months or so after McD got hired, Sarver came out and said he’s completely staying out of all basketball operations and letting McD handle it all. He repeated this when the Dragic drama happened because he said “I’ve stayed out of all basketball operations but I wish now that I was involved in some manner because i could’ve perhaps ended this in a better way or found a better solution to this”.

No players have bashed a franchise more than the Suns in the past 5 or so years. We definitely have the worst PR in then league imo and it’s not close. Ryan McDonough has a lot to do with that.


"Sarver said he should have embraced McDonough’s desire to start over with younger players sooner"
https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/nba/suns/2017/07/19/phoenix-suns-robert-sarver-steve-nash/494182001/


Yeah, it's been glaringly obvious Sarver didn't heed by his words about staying out of it.


Ironically, those two seasons when Suns weren't awful (13/14 and 14/15) resulted in Warren and Booker who are the brightest spots of his drafting. So basically, if Sarver embraced McD's desire from the start, instead of Warren we could have ended up with Wiggins (and by extension, his atrocious new contract as well) or Parker (who's never healthy) and instead of Booker we could have ended up with one of KAT, Russell, Okafor or maybe Porzingis. Is that hypothetical scenario really any better then what we have now? Doesn't look that way to me.
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Re: How Many More Head Coaches Does McDonough get to hire? 

Post#43 » by bwgood77 » Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:11 am

suns91fan wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
Scutt wrote:
"Sarver said he should have embraced McDonough’s desire to start over with younger players sooner"
https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/nba/suns/2017/07/19/phoenix-suns-robert-sarver-steve-nash/494182001/


Yeah, it's been glaringly obvious Sarver didn't heed by his words about staying out of it.


Ironically, those two seasons when Suns weren't awful (13/14 and 14/15) resulted in Warren and Booker who are the brightest spots of his drafting. So basically, if Sarver embraced McD's desire from the start, instead of Warren we could have ended up with Wiggins (and by extension, his atrocious new contract as well) or Parker (who's never healthy) and instead of Booker we could have ended up with one of KAT, Russell, Okafor or maybe Porzingis. Is that hypothetical scenario really any better then what we have now? Doesn't look that way to me.


Yeah, I understand all of that, and as far as the draft goes, it worked out well. But we still were playing more vets and trying to win and signing older guys in free agency and decided to trade a valuable draft pick for a win now guy. It was just not a clear direction.
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Re: How Many More Head Coaches Does McDonough get to hire? 

Post#44 » by lilfishi22 » Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:35 am

Scutt wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:
What I find funny is McD supporters still continue to ignore all those terrible moves and believe he's still somehow untouchable. Also, I haven't read a single post from any fan that is convinced Booker won't sign his extension. Not a single one but I'd be more than happy to join you in laughing at this post if you can show it to me.


Maybe "convinced" was a poor choice of words, but it seems to me there are posters on here that feel the Suns need to compete right this instant or risk having Booker wanting out. I even heard local radio guys talking about it the other day. For me personally, I do not ignore all of McD's terrible moves. I just know that most of the short sighted ones that really bother me were done because of Sarvers impatience, so there is some leeway there. Not trading Bledsoe at the before the start of the season, knowing he wanted that extension, was a dumb move for sure, but I love the trade for Payton.

I do not think he should be untouchable by all means, like I said in an earlier post, his player management skills suck, but he is nowhere as terrible as some seem to think is the point I wanted to make. He is not as bad as Lance Blanks, who was convinced Zabian Dowdell was going to be a better player than Goran Dragic, so it could always be worse. He has been a mixed bag, but I have faith can improve, just like our players. I would not be devastated if we got rid of him, some consistency would be nice though.

I just don't buy that just because you made the best of out of your bad situation, it somehow absolves you for the bad decision making that got in that in bad spot in the first place, I really don't. In the same vein, I don't look at Bledsoe's situation or Dragic's situation or Kieff's situation and ignore why and how it got to that point just because he did OK after trading them. We both agree he's a terrible player manager and he hasn't really shown he has learn from his past mistakes.

And I hate this notion that all the good moves McD has made is all him but then when it's a bad move, it's somehow because Sarver was getting in his way. You can't just give him credit for good moves and then put the blame on someone else when he makes bad ones. Ultimately, he's the guy in the driver's seat and he is responsible for the bad moves just as he should get credit for the good ones.

I was a staunch McD supporter for the first 3 seasons. It was only in the last season when I started reevaluate whether he's really been doing as good a job as I thought he was doing. Then this season with another player leaving the team on disgruntled terms just confirmed to me that he should be on the hot seat.
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Re: How Many More Head Coaches Does McDonough get to hire? 

Post#45 » by Revived » Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:41 am

Hasn’t every season under McDonough basically had one disgruntled player demanding a trade or leaving?

We can almost play a fun game in which we can guess who the next disgruntled one to leave will be. It’s usually been the one least expecting so I’ll go with Warren. Booker is the easy answer but even if he is disgruntled, he won’t leave until he gets that max from the Suns which he knows they will give him.

Whenever McDonough gets fired, he will never land a GM job again in the NBA imo because of all the players and agents he’s pissed of.
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Re: How Many More Head Coaches Does McDonough get to hire? 

Post#46 » by Puff » Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:08 pm

mikea7 wrote:
Puff wrote:I know I am in the minority, you all can just keep riding the McDonough Spin train, your choice not mine.

We can review my remarks at a later date. I have made similar comments about poor decisions this franchise has made since the day Sarver purchased this franchise. Those comments have been about player decisions, coaching decisions and management decisions. Being a big fan I have bought into the spin that was created after every questionable move and hoped for the best after every decision. I bought into the timeline or whatever the word of the day was at the time. Sarver inherited a team ready to win Championships and required just a few skillful tweaks to accomplish that goal. Under his ownership he has tweaked us into oblivion.

If things come up roses by next March I will eat the proverbial crow and I will enjoy every bit of it. No championship is required just respectability on a nightly basis. That is all I ask. I would love to enjoy watching every minute of every Suns basketball game again.

If things stink as they do now, I will provide the I told you so routine like you have never seen before. Of course I expect he will have another spin routine already prepared.

I know some kind of bad luck will fall down upon poor Ryan that stops him from providing a good product for us to watch and the spin will continue. That is the true prediction I make. That is what happens in a Sarver led franchise. I have watched this act since the day he purchased this franchise.

Somehow results do not really matter to most of you folks.


I've been a Suns fan since 1992. I grew up with this franchise, watching or listening to nearly every game for 25 (!) years.

How many Finals have we reached? How many championships have we won? Bad luck has followed us since the "coin flip" and we're still, what, the 4th winningest franchise in league history?

In that time, many GMs have come and gone. There have been two owners. With one, we went to 3 conference finals in 5 years. Under the other, we were entertaining, but only got to the Finals twice.

Unfortunately, because we're dealing with human beings, we can't predict a "can't-miss" prospect. We can't predict what catastrophic injuries will occur. The "great minds" at the top of every franchise have had about as much luck as they have skill. Kobe wasn't necessarily supposed to be Kobe coming out of HS. KG was supposed to win multiple titles for MN. KD wasn't a consensus first pick. James Harden tends to disappear under pressure. Steph Curry was hurt for the first 3 years and certainly wasn't looked upon as all-everything even when he was healthy.

I, with several friends, questioned the Booker pick. He was a tweener without much of a track record.

I know we all think we can do better. I'm not sure I see an ownership group that I would take over Sarver--and don't say "anyone's better!" We all know that's not true. Look around the league at the futility and get some perspective.

There needs to be more parity in the league to increase interest outside of just a few markets. The draft lottery has not improved parity, and players are too free to cooperate with each other to form superteams.

If one of Chriss or Bender hits in his early 20s, what will you say about McD? What if Reed and Jackson significantly improve our perimeter defense as time goes on? I don't question Booker's drive, so I wonder what kind of defender he may be in a couple of years (think Klay, who was not hailed as some great defender early.)

What will happen is what always happens. Things go in cycles. McD, maybe even Sarver, will be gone when some of their decisions start to pan out. Triano's work with this young group will be almost forgotten by the time they come together in 2 or 3 years, and someone else will get the credit after building on the foundations he laid.

That's the way of life...and the NBA. I don't like having to be patient either. But, then, I didn't like losing to the Spurs over and over again either, or the Mavs when the Spurs were out of the way. I want entertainment and a title...well, at least as much as any other fan, and maybe more. But sometimes we need to withhold judgment...and sometimes for a long time.

I don't think MDA was THE ANSWER, btw. But that's also just as much luck as anything else. Mark my words on this: the Rockets are not winning a title any time soon...at least, not given their guys' track records and what I've seen so far.


Yeah - I feel real sorry for those fans in Houston and the players that have to play for Mike D'Antoni - they have had it really bad since he arrived.
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Re: How Many More Head Coaches Does McDonough get to hire? 

Post#47 » by Puff » Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:33 pm

Revived wrote:Hasn’t every season under McDonough basically had one disgruntled player demanding a trade or leaving?

We can almost play a fun game in which we can guess who the next disgruntled one to leave will be. It’s usually been the one least expecting so I’ll go with Warren. Booker is the easy answer but even if he is disgruntled, he won’t leave until he gets that max from the Suns which he knows they will give him.

Whenever McDonough gets fired, he will never land a GM job again in the NBA imo because of all the players and agents he’s pissed of.


I am glad you brought this up. This seems to be ignored.

Anytime there is a player issue Ryan seems to be missing in action until it gets to panic mode. It actually started with the Morris Twins. I am not a fan of either but they are both still in the league and contributing on winning teams.

Then it was Dragic - He actions following Dragic wanting out has probably hurt this franchise more than anything he has done. It appears it was all about protecting his golden boy at the time Bledsoe.

Then Bledsoe was dumped a coupled seasons later with virtually nothing in return.

All four of these players are contributing on winning teams and seem to be doing just fine at their new destinations.

What free agent will sign with this franchise unless we dramtically overpay for their services?
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Re: How Many More Head Coaches Does McDonough get to hire? 

Post#48 » by ImNotMcDiSwear » Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:34 pm

Puff wrote:
Revived wrote:Hasn’t every season under McDonough basically had one disgruntled player demanding a trade or leaving?

We can almost play a fun game in which we can guess who the next disgruntled one to leave will be. It’s usually been the one least expecting so I’ll go with Warren. Booker is the easy answer but even if he is disgruntled, he won’t leave until he gets that max from the Suns which he knows they will give him.

Whenever McDonough gets fired, he will never land a GM job again in the NBA imo because of all the players and agents he’s pissed of.


I am glad you brought this up. This seems to be ignored.

Anytime there is a player issue Ryan seems to be missing in action until it gets to panic mode. It actually started with the Morris Twins. I am not a fan of either but they are both still in the league and contributing on winning teams.

Then it was Dragic - He actions following Dragic wanting out has probably hurt this franchise more than anything he has done. It appears it was all about protecting his golden boy at the time Bledsoe.

Then Bledsoe was dumped a coupled seasons later with virtually nothing in return.

All four of these players are contributing on winning teams and seem to be doing just fine at their new destinations.

What free agent will sign with this franchise unless we dramtically overpay for their services?


Considering Bledsoe had two surgeries on his meniscus while in Phoenix, I'd say one first and one second is a pretty darn good return.
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Re: How Many More Head Coaches Does McDonough get to hire? 

Post#49 » by darealjuice » Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:40 pm

Puff wrote:
Revived wrote:Hasn’t every season under McDonough basically had one disgruntled player demanding a trade or leaving?

We can almost play a fun game in which we can guess who the next disgruntled one to leave will be. It’s usually been the one least expecting so I’ll go with Warren. Booker is the easy answer but even if he is disgruntled, he won’t leave until he gets that max from the Suns which he knows they will give him.

Whenever McDonough gets fired, he will never land a GM job again in the NBA imo because of all the players and agents he’s pissed of.


I am glad you brought this up. This seems to be ignored.

Anytime there is a player issue Ryan seems to be missing in action until it gets to panic mode. It actually started with the Morris Twins. I am not a fan of either but they are both still in the league and contributing on winning teams.

Then it was Dragic - He actions following Dragic wanting out has probably hurt this franchise more than anything he has done. It appears it was all about protecting his golden boy at the time Bledsoe.

Then Bledsoe was dumped a coupled seasons later with virtually nothing in return.

All four of these players are contributing on winning teams and seem to be doing just fine at their new destinations.

What free agent will sign with this franchise unless we dramtically overpay for their services?


The Morris twins got traded because they **** had a dude beat up in the parking lot of a kid's basketball event lmao. **** any narrative you want to spin about how we didn't treat them right, the only thing McDonough did wrong with them is not bounce them immediately after that crap. Those clowns used to scream at coaches and choke players on the bench during games, and you're acting like they are ammo against McDonough? Hilarious.
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Re: How Many More Head Coaches Does McDonough get to hire? 

Post#50 » by ImNotMcDiSwear » Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:48 pm

darealjuice wrote:
Puff wrote:
Revived wrote:Hasn’t every season under McDonough basically had one disgruntled player demanding a trade or leaving?

We can almost play a fun game in which we can guess who the next disgruntled one to leave will be. It’s usually been the one least expecting so I’ll go with Warren. Booker is the easy answer but even if he is disgruntled, he won’t leave until he gets that max from the Suns which he knows they will give him.

Whenever McDonough gets fired, he will never land a GM job again in the NBA imo because of all the players and agents he’s pissed of.


I am glad you brought this up. This seems to be ignored.

Anytime there is a player issue Ryan seems to be missing in action until it gets to panic mode. It actually started with the Morris Twins. I am not a fan of either but they are both still in the league and contributing on winning teams.

Then it was Dragic - He actions following Dragic wanting out has probably hurt this franchise more than anything he has done. It appears it was all about protecting his golden boy at the time Bledsoe.

Then Bledsoe was dumped a coupled seasons later with virtually nothing in return.

All four of these players are contributing on winning teams and seem to be doing just fine at their new destinations.

What free agent will sign with this franchise unless we dramtically overpay for their services?


The Morris twins got traded because they **** had a dude beat up in the parking lot of a kid's basketball event lmao. **** any narrative you want to spin about how we didn't treat them right, the only thing McDonough did wrong with them is not bounce them immediately after that crap. Those clowns used to scream at coaches and choke players on the bench during games, and you're acting like they are ammo against McDonough? Hilarious.


I +1'd, because I generally agree, but in defense of McDonough, (1) wat a way to tank, and (2) we did get a first for Keef for enduring the pain of his presence.

I hate watching a Morris play basketball. Thanks, Lance Blanks.
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Re: How Many More Head Coaches Does McDonough get to hire? 

Post#51 » by bwgood77 » Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:14 pm

ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:
darealjuice wrote:
Puff wrote:
I am glad you brought this up. This seems to be ignored.

Anytime there is a player issue Ryan seems to be missing in action until it gets to panic mode. It actually started with the Morris Twins. I am not a fan of either but they are both still in the league and contributing on winning teams.

Then it was Dragic - He actions following Dragic wanting out has probably hurt this franchise more than anything he has done. It appears it was all about protecting his golden boy at the time Bledsoe.

Then Bledsoe was dumped a coupled seasons later with virtually nothing in return.

All four of these players are contributing on winning teams and seem to be doing just fine at their new destinations.

What free agent will sign with this franchise unless we dramtically overpay for their services?


The Morris twins got traded because they **** had a dude beat up in the parking lot of a kid's basketball event lmao. **** any narrative you want to spin about how we didn't treat them right, the only thing McDonough did wrong with them is not bounce them immediately after that crap. Those clowns used to scream at coaches and choke players on the bench during games, and you're acting like they are ammo against McDonough? Hilarious.


I +1'd, because I generally agree, but in defense of McDonough, (1) wat a way to tank, and (2) we did get a first for Keef for enduring the pain of his presence.

I hate watching a Morris play basketball. Thanks, Lance Blanks.


True, one of three firsts we traded for Chriss.
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Re: How Many More Head Coaches Does McDonough get to hire? 

Post#52 » by ImNotMcDiSwear » Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:17 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:
darealjuice wrote:
The Morris twins got traded because they **** had a dude beat up in the parking lot of a kid's basketball event lmao. **** any narrative you want to spin about how we didn't treat them right, the only thing McDonough did wrong with them is not bounce them immediately after that crap. Those clowns used to scream at coaches and choke players on the bench during games, and you're acting like they are ammo against McDonough? Hilarious.


I +1'd, because I generally agree, but in defense of McDonough, (1) wat a way to tank, and (2) we did get a first for Keef for enduring the pain of his presence.

I hate watching a Morris play basketball. Thanks, Lance Blanks.


True, one of three firsts we traded for Chriss.


It's true. Chriss was a costly selection. I really hope he makes a leap with us over the next couple years.
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Re: How Many More Head Coaches Does McDonough get to hire? 

Post#53 » by Revived » Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:41 pm

ImNotMcDiSwear wrote: Thanks, Lance Blanks.

Lance Blanks also earned us that Lakers pick which McDonough so casually traded away for Knight.

One of my biggest pet peeves in sports is when a new GM comes in and trades away elite/special assets that the former GM worked hard to get. Lance Blanks was an awful GM but one of the few things he did well was that Lakers and quite frankly, McD should’ve never had the right to trade that pick unless he’s getting a established superstar player that’s already on a long term contract in return.

It also annoys me that Bryan Colangelo traded that pick to the Celtics (albeit with protections) and I know almost all 76ers feel that Colangelo is ruining he assets that Hinkie worked hard to get.

It’s crazy to think but imagine if we had never traded that pick for Knight...we could’ve used that pick and Warren to possibly land Jimmy Butler and the SUNS would’ve been the team that’s rising to the playoffs instead of TWolves.

Payton
Booker
Butler
Jackson
Bender

This would have the right amount of defense/shooting and cutting. This could’ve been our “death” lineup like the ones the Warriors use while our regular starting lineup could have a C like Chandler or Len shifting Jackson to the bench.
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Re: How Many More Head Coaches Does McDonough get to hire? 

Post#54 » by ImNotMcDiSwear » Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:51 pm

Revived wrote:
ImNotMcDiSwear wrote: Thanks, Lance Blanks.

Lance Blanks also earned us that Lakers pick which McDonough so casually traded away for Knight.

One of my biggest pet peeves in sports is when a new GM comes in and trades away elite/special assets that the former GM worked hard to get. Lance Blanks was an awful GM but one of the few things he did well was that Lakers and quite frankly, McD should’ve never had the right to trade that pick unless he’s getting a established superstar player that’s already on a long term contract in return.

It also annoys me that Bryan Colangelo traded that pick to the Celtics (albeit with protections) and I know almost all 76ers feel that Colangelo is ruining he assets that Hinkie worked hard to get.

It’s crazy to think but imagine if we had never traded that pick for Knight...we could’ve used that pick and Warren to possibly land Jimmy Butler and the SUNS would’ve been the team that’s rising to the playoffs instead of TWolves.

Payton
Booker
Butler
Jackson
Bender

This would have the right amount of defense/shooting and cutting. This could’ve been our “death” lineup like the ones the Warriors use while our regular starting lineup could have a C like Chandler or Len shifting Jackson to the bench.


Hey, that Nash trade was the first FO decision that I had liked for several years. I thought the Marshall pick was bad when we made it. Any one of us would have taken Kawhi over Markieff in the previous draft. They selected Alando Tucker at the end of the first round (I mean, at least Archie could be a good player eventually, in theory. Blanks's track record with draft picks was awful.

McDonough's acquired a looot more picks than Blanks did, albeit over an extended period of time. FWIW, I also don't remember ever being impressed by anything Lance Blanks said. Meanwhile, http://arizonasports.com/story/1424054/mcdonough-suns-ready-next-step-devin-booker/.
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Re: How Many More Head Coaches Does McDonough get to hire? 

Post#55 » by WeekapaugGroove » Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:59 pm

While I don't think the totality of his work has been good enough I look at the chriss trade/pick as one of the most excusable. That draft was viewed as weak so consolidating those picks and taking a swing on a high upside guy made sense in theory. Heck I get the appeal of chriss because his potential to shoot, rim run, and block shots makes a great modern player IF he put it together. The thing with boom or bust picks is some bust. Hell the whole point of the process wasn't that every pick would hit but that if you take enough high upside guys the odds are a few hit and having multiple swings minimizes the bust risk.

Now the fair knock on that trade is including bogdan. He wasnt some mystery guy, there was a big sample size of him playing well in europe so its not a shocker he is playing well in the NBA. Heck he was my favorite pick of that draft that year so it did sting personally when he was in that deal.
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Re: How Many More Head Coaches Does McDonough get to hire? 

Post#56 » by bwgood77 » Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:26 pm

WeekapaugGroove wrote:While I don't think the totality of his work has been good enough I look at the chriss trade/pick as one of the most excusable. That draft was viewed as weak so consolidating those picks and taking a swing on a high upside guy made sense in theory. Heck I get the appeal of chriss because his potential to shoot, rim run, and block shots makes a great modern player IF he put it together. The thing with boom or bust picks is some bust. Hell the whole point of the process wasn't that every pick would hit but that if you take enough high upside guys the odds are a few hit and having multiple swings minimizes the bust risk.

Now the fair knock on that trade is including bogdan. He wasnt some mystery guy, there was a big sample size of him playing well in europe so its not a shocker he is playing well in the NBA. Heck he was my favorite pick of that draft that year so it did sting personally when he was in that deal.


Yeah, it's kind of like judging Hinkie on the Noel and Okafor picks...missing out on Giannis and Porzingis. But then he got Embiid...1 for 3...and really none of those guys were thought of as even boom/bust...most thought they were sure things if healthy.
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