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The Draft (Postseason Edition): 1/16/31/59 (NEW POLL)

Moderators: bwgood77, batsmasher, Kerrsed, lilfishi22, Qwigglez

Who do you want us to draft?

Ayton
98
55%
Doncic
81
45%
 
Total votes: 179

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Re: The Draft (Postseason Edition): Top 4/16/31/59 

Post#161 » by Wilber85 » Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:00 pm

WeekapaugGroove wrote:
ZER0 wrote:I really don't see the hype behind JJJ, he looks like a journeyman roleplayer to me. In a draft that is top heavy with superstar potential, i just don't see the top 5 hype. I would most definitely want Bagley over him.


I've heard multiple draft guys say he has the best defensive instincts of anyone they have scouted since Anthony Davis. He's a natural shot blocker who can also switch onto guards. Advanced stats love him with a 10 DBPM compared to 4 for Ayton and 3 for Bagley.

Offensively he's still a work in progress but he shot nearly 80% from the FT line which is a good indicator and he shot around 40% from 3 in college on a decent volume. So basically he's a 3 and D Center.

Some of the reason his counting stats don't jump off the page is MSU played 4 bigs in their rotation and had other guys like Bridges that took on more of the offensive role.


Dude sucked at MSU
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Re: The Draft (Postseason Edition): Top 4/16/31/59 

Post#162 » by bwgood77 » Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:44 pm

kennydorglas wrote:They keep hating on my guy Bamba.
He's going to be the Myles Turner of this draft.
'Ohhh he's skinny, he moves funny, cant create his offense... let's take Jahlil Okafor''

I'm so ready for this.
#BambaStrong #BAMBASQUAD


You don't have him any higher than like 4 do you?
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Re: The Draft (Postseason Edition): Top 4/16/31/59 

Post#163 » by JMac1 » Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:00 pm

Wilber85 wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:
ZER0 wrote:I really don't see the hype behind JJJ, he looks like a journeyman roleplayer to me. In a draft that is top heavy with superstar potential, i just don't see the top 5 hype. I would most definitely want Bagley over him.


I've heard multiple draft guys say he has the best defensive instincts of anyone they have scouted since Anthony Davis. He's a natural shot blocker who can also switch onto guards. Advanced stats love him with a 10 DBPM compared to 4 for Ayton and 3 for Bagley.

Offensively he's still a work in progress but he shot nearly 80% from the FT line which is a good indicator and he shot around 40% from 3 in college on a decent volume. So basically he's a 3 and D Center.

Some of the reason his counting stats don't jump off the page is MSU played 4 bigs in their rotation and had other guys like Bridges that took on more of the offensive role.


Dude sucked at MSU


He didn’t suck...but he is just such a hard sell for me. No way do I take him over Bagley or Trae....

Let’s not over think this. Ayton or Doncic, then Bagley or Young. 2 tiers for me, with Bagley being just a half tier lower than Ayton.
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Re: The Draft (Postseason Edition): Top 4/16/31/59 

Post#164 » by thamadkant » Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:22 pm

Wilber85 wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:
ZER0 wrote:I really don't see the hype behind JJJ, he looks like a journeyman roleplayer to me. In a draft that is top heavy with superstar potential, i just don't see the top 5 hype. I would most definitely want Bagley over him.


I've heard multiple draft guys say he has the best defensive instincts of anyone they have scouted since Anthony Davis. He's a natural shot blocker who can also switch onto guards. Advanced stats love him with a 10 DBPM compared to 4 for Ayton and 3 for Bagley.

Offensively he's still a work in progress but he shot nearly 80% from the FT line which is a good indicator and he shot around 40% from 3 in college on a decent volume. So basically he's a 3 and D Center.

Some of the reason his counting stats don't jump off the page is MSU played 4 bigs in their rotation and had other guys like Bridges that took on more of the offensive role.


Dude sucked at MSU



Far from it. Lol
You probably would have thought Booker or Towns sucked too in college.

18 year old college players who don't play much minutes need to be judged on their skills rather than their overall productivity. And JJJ although with limited minutes showed similar stats as Embiid and Towns... Is also showing one of the best defenses for any age in that level.

Suns need that.
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Re: The Draft (Postseason Edition): Top 4/16/31/59 

Post#165 » by TheLogician » Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:45 pm

If you watched JJJ, you'd see he looked more like Bender than Embiid or Towns.
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Re: The Draft (Postseason Edition): Top 4/16/31/59 

Post#166 » by thamadkant » Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:55 pm

TheLogician wrote:If you watched JJJ, you'd see he looked more like Bender than Embiid or Towns.


Bender wishes he could be a defender as good as JJJ at the same age.
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Re: The Draft (Postseason Edition): Top 4/16/31/59 

Post#167 » by Frank Lee » Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:49 pm

4words I despise in comparing players...’at the same age’

It truly means nothing in the big scope of how good your team is. It’s a projection stat of the future. There is only one point in time that is relevant, and it’s called NOW.
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Re: The Draft (Postseason Edition): Top 4/16/31/59 

Post#168 » by Mulhollanddrive » Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:48 pm

From a production point of view the key stats for a modern big (shooting and rim protection) might favour Jackson over Ayton and Bagley.

Points + Blocks Per 36:
Jackson 23
Ayton 23
Bagley 23

3PT%
Jackson 1.1 makes per game @ 39%
Bagley 0.7 makes per game @ 39%
Ayton 0.3 makes per game @ 34%

FT%
Jackson 79%
Ayton 73%
Bagley 62%

My downside with Jackson is whether he can expand his scoring skillset and cut down on fouls.
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Re: The Draft (Postseason Edition): Top 4/16/31/59 

Post#169 » by BobbieL » Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:02 pm

Gambo again not giving the Doncic love
he is immature
he is not as athletic

he moved to Spain at 13; has been playing against older guys, speaks five language - I wonder if somebody is telling Gambo to say this stuff so people think the Suns aren't on Doncic.

the guy has time to mature doesn't he - if the reports from Gambo are true
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Re: The Draft (Postseason Edition): Top 4/16/31/59 

Post#170 » by lilfishi22 » Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:02 am

Kerrsed wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
Read on Twitter


That further illustrates why im so against us drafting Bamba.

JUST SAY NO.....to Mo!

Totally agree

I don't think the concerns bring brought up in this article is anything new. He's been well scouted and his issues are well documented. What this article does is push him further down on my board. I had him as high as #7 but at this point he's moved further back into early-mid teens where I think he really should be.

This pretty much sums it up for me
Without outlier athletic development, Bamba has the makings of a good but flawed defender who brings very little offensive value. That player could still be a starter, but in an NBA that is increasingly favoring spacing and quickness the value of such a player is genuinely diminished.


How can anyone justify taking him anywhere near the top 5?
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Re: The Draft (Postseason Edition): Top 4/16/31/59 

Post#171 » by lilfishi22 » Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:05 am

BobbieL wrote:Gambo again not giving the Doncic love
he is immature
he is not as athletic

he moved to Spain at 13; has been playing against older guys, speaks five language - I wonder if somebody is telling Gambo to say this stuff so people think the Suns aren't on Doncic.

the guy has time to mature doesn't he - if the reports from Gambo are true

He's the ONLY person I've heard/read that says Doncic is immature. I have no idea where he gets that from
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Re: The Draft (Postseason Edition): Top 4/16/31/59 

Post#172 » by Kerrsed » Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:12 am

lilfishi22 wrote:
BobbieL wrote:Gambo again not giving the Doncic love
he is immature
he is not as athletic

he moved to Spain at 13; has been playing against older guys, speaks five language - I wonder if somebody is telling Gambo to say this stuff so people think the Suns aren't on Doncic.

the guy has time to mature doesn't he - if the reports from Gambo are true

He's the ONLY person I've heard/read that says Doncic is immature. I have no idea where he gets that from


By the same Agents that have offered to pay Teams Scouts and Beat Writers to talk up their player. It really wouldnt surprise me if Ayton's agent slipped Gambo some cash to talk up his man while speaking down about Doncic. While us, the people, have no say in who gets drafted, some owners out there might take the fan bases thoughts into consideration, as we are the ones paying for the product along with all the merch with that players name slapped all over it.
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Re: The Draft (Postseason Edition): Top 4/16/31/59 

Post#173 » by bwgood77 » Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:26 am

WeekapaugGroove wrote:
ZER0 wrote:I really don't see the hype behind JJJ, he looks like a journeyman roleplayer to me. In a draft that is top heavy with superstar potential, i just don't see the top 5 hype. I would most definitely want Bagley over him.


I've heard multiple draft guys say he has the best defensive instincts of anyone they have scouted since Anthony Davis. He's a natural shot blocker who can also switch onto guards. Advanced stats love him with a 10 DBPM compared to 4 for Ayton and 3 for Bagley.

Offensively he's still a work in progress but he shot nearly 80% from the FT line which is a good indicator and he shot around 40% from 3 in college on a decent volume. So basically he's a 3 and D Center.

Some of the reason his counting stats don't jump off the page is MSU played 4 bigs in their rotation and had other guys like Bridges that took on more of the offensive role.


Another thing about JJJ is that Mich St doesn't always play freshmen a ton of minutes as Izzo usually gives his upper class men a lot of minutes. Draymond Green averaged 11 minutes as a freshman with 3 pts and 3 rebounds.

I don't understand the journeyman thing for the youngest guy of the top prospects who had the best defensive instincts and #s in college this year. I guess I can buy role player if that's what people consider defensive anchors who can shoot the 3.

But part of the reason I have him around top 5 is most of the prospects have flaws or play positions we are set at. I guy like Bagley is so limited at what he can do. It's made a guy like Faried who has a strong motor and is a solid rebounder and came in a solid finisher. Now Bagley should be better and is taller/longer, but is still kind of a tweener without great length.

Faried's college DX write up:

Record breaking forward Kenneth Faried is not the most skilled player on this list, but his situational breakdown is indicative of the fact that he may be the hardest working. Shooting a third ranked 61.2% in half court situations, Faried was a dominant figure in the OVC, and showed well against top competition too. He earned a top-ranked 23% of his possessions on the offensive glass, converting 70.2% of the put-backs (2nd).

Despite his relentless hustle, Faried actually saw the majority of his touches in one-on-one situations in the post (40%). Shooting 52.4% in those situations (4th), Faried's aggressiveness and toughness made him an imposing offensive presence at the college level despite his lack of advanced scoring-moves. Faried's best asset is his finishing ability. He scored 1.484 points per-possession at the basket last season –an incredible mark and the best among big men. Faried isn't much of a jump shooter at this point, but it is hard not to be impressed with the way his motor and athleticism manifest themselves in the paint on paper.
- Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Kenneth-Faried-5325/ ©DraftExpress
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Re: The Draft (Postseason Edition): Top 4/16/31/59 

Post#174 » by BobbieL » Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:29 am

Kerrsed wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:
BobbieL wrote:Gambo again not giving the Doncic love
he is immature
he is not as athletic

he moved to Spain at 13; has been playing against older guys, speaks five language - I wonder if somebody is telling Gambo to say this stuff so people think the Suns aren't on Doncic.

the guy has time to mature doesn't he - if the reports from Gambo are true

He's the ONLY person I've heard/read that says Doncic is immature. I have no idea where he gets that from


By the same Agents that have offered to pay Teams Scouts and Beat Writers to talk up their player. It really wouldnt surprise me if Ayton's agent slipped Gambo some cash to talk up his man while speaking down about Doncic. While us, the people, have no say in who gets drafted, some owners out there might take the fan bases thoughts into consideration, as we are the ones paying for the product along with all the merch with that players name slapped all over it.



I want Doncic first but if Ayton is the pick - that's fine. But its just odd that Gambo is tryin to downplay Doncic while touting other players like JJJ, Bagley and even Bamba
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Re: The Draft (Postseason Edition): Top 4/16/31/59 

Post#175 » by Villalobos » Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:32 am

I'd be all right with JJJr at #3 or #4 if, and only if, the Suns get Bud. Otherwise I don't trust the team developing a guy like that. If no Bud, then Trae all the way.
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Re: The Draft (Postseason Edition): Top 4/16/31/59 

Post#176 » by bwgood77 » Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:37 am

Kerrsed wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:
BobbieL wrote:Gambo again not giving the Doncic love
he is immature
he is not as athletic

he moved to Spain at 13; has been playing against older guys, speaks five language - I wonder if somebody is telling Gambo to say this stuff so people think the Suns aren't on Doncic.

the guy has time to mature doesn't he - if the reports from Gambo are true

He's the ONLY person I've heard/read that says Doncic is immature. I have no idea where he gets that from


By the same Agents that have offered to pay Teams Scouts and Beat Writers to talk up their player. It really wouldnt surprise me if Ayton's agent slipped Gambo some cash to talk up his man while speaking down about Doncic. While us, the people, have no say in who gets drafted, some owners out there might take the fan bases thoughts into consideration, as we are the ones paying for the product along with all the merch with that players name slapped all over it.


Agents are not going to pay a dumb talk show host to say things like that. It wouldn't matter anyway. You think McD is listening to Gambo saying "Good point"? I would bet his opinion of Gambo is not real high, if he even ever takes the time to listen to him.

It's not going to matter much to our FO who the fan want. They will take who they want. I mean I think it's probably pretty safe to assume Ayton is 1. I used to think the FO might have Bagley #2 but the more I think about it, it would seem really odd for them to come to that conclusion. While he does have a lot of the same characteristics of Jackson..motor and energy, he has fewer skills and little defense, and some of the same weaknesses...outside shooting and FT shooting. It seems like he might clog the lane for JJ too, especially if he wasn't playing C.

Hopefully the FO has Doncic no lower than 2. After that it would be really interesting to see what their board would look like. I have no idea.
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Re: The Draft (Postseason Edition): Top 4/16/31/59 

Post#177 » by TheLogician » Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:01 am

Mulhollanddrive wrote:From a production point of view the key stats for a modern big (shooting and rim protection) might favour Jackson over Ayton and Bagley.

Points + Blocks Per 36:
Jackson 23
Ayton 23
Bagley 23

3PT%
Jackson 1.1 makes per game @ 39%
Bagley 0.7 makes per game @ 39%
Ayton 0.3 makes per game @ 34%

FT%
Jackson 79%
Ayton 73%
Bagley 62%

My downside with Jackson is whether he can expand his scoring skillset and cut down on fouls.


I watch a lot of college hoops. Ayton is an elite rebounder and has a full offensive arsenal. He has the athleticism and nimbleness to become a great defender. Don't fool yourself with stats and projections.
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Re: The Draft (Postseason Edition): Top 4/16/31/59 

Post#178 » by darealjuice » Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:10 am

I completely disagree with that Stepien piece. They're seriously underrating his athleticism and mobility, it's insane to me that they think it'll be a liability for him as a center at the next level. He's so much more mobile than guys like Whiteside and Nurkic that they compare him to on defense. Their examples of him being an athletic liability on defense are him being beat from the perimeter by NBA athlete-level slashers and one bad close out lol? They knock him for a few bad back to the basket plays, but what successful team even plays in the post a lot anymore? Even the plays where they say he's bad in pick and roll are 2 bad passes and a foul lol... I can literally pull up clips that are the opposite of their talking points in 5 minutes.

I don't get how some of the same people that would want to pay Capela big money this offseason can hate on Bamba. You want the modern center that cleans up the offensive and defensive glass, finishes lobs above the rim, protects the rim at an elite level, can contain on the perimeter, and looks to be a developing spot up 3 point shooter? There you go. He needs weight, but so does literally every draft prospect besides maybe Ayton. Big men rarely come into the league ready to bang with the big boys.

He's not someone we should be drafting, but the him being a mid-late lottery pick is ridiculous lol. Just another "slow" Texas center that's misused by Shaka Smart, drops in the draft, and people wonder "why?" 2-3 years later.
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Re: The Draft (Postseason Edition): Top 4/16/31/59 

Post#179 » by thamadkant » Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:24 am

TheLogician wrote:
Mulhollanddrive wrote:From a production point of view the key stats for a modern big (shooting and rim protection) might favour Jackson over Ayton and Bagley.

Points + Blocks Per 36:
Jackson 23
Ayton 23
Bagley 23

3PT%
Jackson 1.1 makes per game @ 39%
Bagley 0.7 makes per game @ 39%
Ayton 0.3 makes per game @ 34%

FT%
Jackson 79%
Ayton 73%
Bagley 62%

My downside with Jackson is whether he can expand his scoring skillset and cut down on fouls.


I watch a lot of college hoops. Ayton is an elite rebounder and has a full offensive arsenal. He has the athleticism and nimbleness to become a great defender. Don't fool yourself with stats and projections.


This can go both ways... Don't fool yourself with aesthetics and athletic ability....
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Re: The Draft (Postseason Edition): Top 4/16/31/59 

Post#180 » by thamadkant » Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:26 am

In the end.. Suns will do a private work out and interview and make their pick then.


Hence very important to have a coach by them IMO..

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