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The Draft (Postseason Edition): 1/16/31/59 (NEW POLL)

Who do you want us to draft?

Ayton
98
55%
Doncic
81
45%
 
Total votes: 179

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Re: The Draft (Postseason Edition): 1/16/31/59 (NEW POLL) 

Post#1941 » by jcsunsfan » Wed May 16, 2018 9:37 pm

SkinnyOMiller wrote:
thamadkant wrote:
darealjuice wrote:
Not sure why any of that would sound like an excuse. Personnel and matchups are a very important part of defense, and most of the time Ayton was defending the same position that JJ, Tatum, and Isaac were in college instead of his natural position. Despite this, he was the only player with consistent playing time that had an individual DRTG below the team DRTG and he had the highest BLK% of any starter that Sean Miller has had. He's certainly not an elite defensive prospect, but people on here are trying to make him out as a defensive moron that only played bully ball on offense are wrong.

It's easy to say, "Ayton joined the team, their defense is bad, Miller is supposed to be a good defensive coach, so Ayton must be bad," but look at who Ayton shared the court with this year: Trier's defense fell off a cliff, PJC is a clear defensive liability, Rawle was out for half of non-conference play while his replacement had the worst DRTG on the team, and Ristic has been a defensive liability his entire time in Tucson. Now look at the 2 Sean Miller-era Arizona teams that had top 25 defensive KenPom ratings: 2014 had AG and RHJ and 2015 had Stanley and RHJ, i.e. 2 versatile NBA defensive prospects with other solid defenders like Brandon Ashley and McConnell on the court.



I did a high school study as well as college and Ayton only averaged 2.8 blocks there. Howard and even Mitch Robinson are in 6bpg and 5bpg respectively.





Guys that big who are such poor shot blockers worry me a lot. There is no reason to believe he will suddenly become a whole lot better in that area either.

When you consider his size, length and athleticism you would reasonably expect his shot block numbers to be a lot higher, even as a forward.



Watch this video. Watch how much of the time Ayton is guarding MUCH smaller players at the three point line and beyond. The UofA defensive scheme had him out of position to get block much of the time. Its kinda hard to be a rim protector when you are not able to stay near the rim.
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Re: The Draft (Postseason Edition): 1/16/31/59 (NEW POLL) 

Post#1942 » by kennydorglas » Wed May 16, 2018 9:39 pm

enigmatics wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:It is strange that they really choked from the perimeter in those tourney. I guess they just faced better perimeter D or just choked, but overall the team wasn't really wasn't a bad 3 pt shooting team for the season. I mean Trier put up almost 5.6 attempts per game, Awlkins 4 and PJC 3.4.


Their numbers were padded due to the Pac12.

Any UofA fan who watched them should legitimately be able to say they're not pure shooters.


Trier is a really good shooter.
Alkins and PJC probably not.
Miller recruited two shooters but they didnt play much.
Randolph will be very good once he gets decent playing time.
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Re: The Draft (Postseason Edition): 1/16/31/59 (NEW POLL) 

Post#1943 » by saintEscaton » Wed May 16, 2018 9:45 pm

Look at Ayton's agile foot speed and ability to recover laterally with his hips. Yeah he needs to be coached up and we much of positional awareness/help D is intangible rather than learnable, but he should be able to alter shots at the rim by merely bodying up and he has been playing organized ball for only 5 years or so, he needs more time to learn the intricacies of the game
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Re: The Draft (Postseason Edition): 1/16/31/59 (NEW POLL) 

Post#1944 » by bwgood77 » Wed May 16, 2018 9:49 pm

enigmatics wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:It is strange that they really choked from the perimeter in those tourney. I guess they just faced better perimeter D or just choked, but overall the team wasn't really wasn't a bad 3 pt shooting team for the season. I mean Trier put up almost 5.6 attempts per game, Awlkins 4 and PJC 3.4.


Their numbers were padded due to the Pac12.

Any UofA fan who watched them should legitimately be able to say they're not pure shooters.


Well yeah, I wouldn't call them "pure" shooters, but they had good numbers overall on a pretty good number of attempts. I mean, yeah, they seemingly choked in out of conference tourney games.

If you look at Trier and Awklins conference %s though, they are not much different than overall...nearly the same. PJC was much better shooting out of conference.
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Re: The Draft (Postseason Edition): 1/16/31/59 (NEW POLL) 

Post#1945 » by Don7 » Wed May 16, 2018 9:52 pm

Well he's definitely younger.Not by much but year from year he showed amazing improvements.



27/8/5 against Saric,Bogdanovic,Bender with 18 is cool to say the least.

I wanted to point to this game for a reason..This was the only time in last 12 months he got a break.He played 70/80 games with 17 years and then had like a 3,4 weeks of pause(couldn't train in p3)and then preparation with Slovenia including this kinde of games.After this game he played another 75 until this moment ,and yet the most important games are left.In two years since begining od 2016/2017 season he had like 3 weeks of rest(not playing competitive basketball)and he looked like this.Its pretty normal that in May he dosent have the same legs in jump shot like in freaking August...He's season do to eurobasket starter in July and season befor that finished in june..Give him a little rest and until October he will have enough time to train and improve on his body and every other skill. Its not an excuse , i don't know was there any prospect ever to play this much basketball with 17/18 years...not only 80 + games but 11 of 12 months.With every game with Slovenia and Real being must win/high pressure situation.

This was before 2016/2017 season. (summer of 2016)

Luka combines outstanding anthropometric measurements, including an 8'9.5" standing reach (88th percentile for NBA guards) and 228.8 lbs of mass with very competitive and improving movement qualities. In the lateral plane, Luka's ability to abduct the hip (1 dev above the mean) allows him to generate Force more efficiently than most NBA players that we've assessed (71st percentile in lateral acceleration). He's become particularly adept in a change-of-direction environment, where his Slide Agility times outpace most NBA Guards tested at P3 and they've improved by roughly 0.25s in the past year. Vertically, Luka ranks better than 73% of NBA guards in height touched during the approach and his improved his countermovement jump by 2 inches in the past year. He's good now, he's still getting better, and he's well within his physical development window!



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He was 17 and he couldn´t train again do the long season + eurobasket.Just that summer he took amazing leaps in his athleticism.I truly belive he has a lot of room to improve in that department.He's just taping in his athletic potenntial and if any team/trainers unlocked it on above avrege level with his skill/IQ he possess we are takling about something really,really special.Of cours depends on do you belive he has that room and how big it is.
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Re: The Draft (Postseason Edition): 1/16/31/59 (NEW POLL) 

Post#1946 » by Mulhollanddrive » Wed May 16, 2018 9:59 pm

At least one of pick 1 or 2 has failed to make All-Star every draft since 1999.

That suggests one of Ayton or Doncic will bust.
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Re: The Draft (Postseason Edition): 1/16/31/59 (NEW POLL) 

Post#1947 » by D3ko » Wed May 16, 2018 10:07 pm

Hello Spanish coach from Madrid, obsessed with the NBA.

Please Draft Luka I cannot imagine a better team than Phoenix for him and for the NBA.

Luka-Booker: is a hell of couple to have , a great P&R player and the best young shooter in the game .Team oriented players, versatile and really able to do everything together defense include a big PG( Wall,RW,Harden) would be defended by Luka and a quick PG( Irving,Curry) would be defended by Devin.
Both can play P&R , shoot and pass at high level

Luka-Jackson-Bender: can flourish together , three versatile players, theycan switch every play either offence and defense.

Luka is a truly pass first point guard with SG body and skills. Will improve the players around him every year and will be a playoff team after year 2 for sure.

Luka- kokoskov- NBA: i cannot imagine a better situation in lifetime for Luka in the way of playing nowadays, high pace, spacing, shooters everywhere . A coach knowing how to use him , and with a modern playbook. Free flow . point guard league where skills and shooting are the most important must have skills.

I don't think that Luka is a generational talent , I would draft a dozen of players in the last decade ahead of him , but I can not see a player of those in this Draft.

Please don't draft Ayton , I can see a incredible body , good hand, room to improve , all star selection . But , what of those players in the last 7 years are having an impact in the league.

What kind of impact have nowadays players as Deandre or Drummond ,Miles Turner, ibaka,Cousins,Lamarcus.?

Just to put in context the best situation for Ayton is to be Anthony Davis or Embiid level, those were really top talent coming of NCAA , embiid was top 3 without a knee .

So the best prospect for him are two of the most special players ever, is Ayton so special ?? I can't see it.


With Ayton you have a 2 times all star player in a lottery team for 7 years , and with Luka you can have a five years playoff team .
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Re: The Draft (Postseason Edition): 1/16/31/59 (NEW POLL) 

Post#1948 » by kennydorglas » Wed May 16, 2018 10:10 pm

Luka carries his weight really well.
He has A LOT of room to grow - athleticism wise.
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Re: The Draft (Postseason Edition): 1/16/31/59 (NEW POLL) 

Post#1949 » by Saberestar » Wed May 16, 2018 10:15 pm

First mock from Scott Bordow.
1. Suns (21-61): C Deandre Ayton, 7-0, 260, Arizona.

The hiring of Igor Kokoskov as coach – as well as Phoenix’s need for a point guard – means Slovenia’s Luka Doncic will be part of the conversation. But General Manager Ryan McDonough has said center is a “slightly higher” priority and NBA scouts have compared Ayton with Philadelphia’s Joel Embiid and Minnesota’s Karl-Anthony Towns. The Suns can always find guards/wing players in free agency. But a physically dominant center who fits today’s NBA game? How can the Suns pass that up?

16. Suns (21-61) via Heat: PG Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, 6-6, 180, Kentucky.


This is assuming Phoenix takes Ayton No. 1 rather than Doncic. Gilgeous-Alexander can defend, get to the basket and set up teammates. With Brandon Knight returning from knee surgery, Gilgeous-Alexander can be brought along slowly but eventually emerge as the long-term solution at point guard beside Devin Booker.

https://amp.azcentral.com/amp/615438002?__twitter_impression=true
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Re: The Draft (Postseason Edition): 1/16/31/59 (NEW POLL) 

Post#1950 » by saintEscaton » Wed May 16, 2018 10:16 pm

Saberestar wrote:First mock from Scott Bordow.
1. Suns (21-61): C Deandre Ayton, 7-0, 260, Arizona.

The hiring of Igor Kokoskov as coach – as well as Phoenix’s need for a point guard – means Slovenia’s Luka Doncic will be part of the conversation. But General Manager Ryan McDonough has said center is a “slightly higher” priority and NBA scouts have compared Ayton with Philadelphia’s Joel Embiid and Minnesota’s Karl-Anthony Towns. The Suns can always find guards/wing players in free agency. But a physically dominant center who fits today’s NBA game? How can the Suns pass that up?

16. Suns (21-61) via Heat: PG Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, 6-6, 180, Kentucky.


This is assuming Phoenix takes Ayton No. 1 rather than Doncic. Gilgeous-Alexander can defend, get to the basket and set up teammates. With Brandon Knight returning from knee surgery, Gilgeous-Alexander can be brought along slowly but eventually emerge as the long-term solution at point guard beside Devin Booker.

https://amp.azcentral.com/amp/615438002?__twitter_impression=true


I would be ecstatic if that were to happen
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Re: The Draft (Postseason Edition): 1/16/31/59 (NEW POLL) 

Post#1951 » by kennydorglas » Wed May 16, 2018 10:17 pm

Saberestar wrote:First mock from Scott Bordow.
1. Suns (21-61): C Deandre Ayton, 7-0, 260, Arizona.

The hiring of Igor Kokoskov as coach – as well as Phoenix’s need for a point guard – means Slovenia’s Luka Doncic will be part of the conversation. But General Manager Ryan McDonough has said center is a “slightly higher” priority and NBA scouts have compared Ayton with Philadelphia’s Joel Embiid and Minnesota’s Karl-Anthony Towns. The Suns can always find guards/wing players in free agency. But a physically dominant center who fits today’s NBA game? How can the Suns pass that up?

16. Suns (21-61) via Heat: PG Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, 6-6, 180, Kentucky.


This is assuming Phoenix takes Ayton No. 1 rather than Doncic. Gilgeous-Alexander can defend, get to the basket and set up teammates. With Brandon Knight returning from knee surgery, Gilgeous-Alexander can be brought along slowly but eventually emerge as the long-term solution at point guard beside Devin Booker.

https://amp.azcentral.com/amp/615438002?__twitter_impression=true


Not bad, Shai works for my 6'6" and taller lineup.
He's another guy who has A LOT of room to grow with his athleticism.
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Re: The Draft (Postseason Edition): 1/16/31/59 (NEW POLL) 

Post#1952 » by SideSwipe » Wed May 16, 2018 10:20 pm

Hey guys am I the only one who thinks that Bamba is a little overlooked in this draft. That guy has star written all over him to me. Great instincts, great frame, grate defense and very mobile and shoots from outside with great form.

I'm kind of thinking (pending combine results)
1. Ayton
2. Bamba
3. Bagley
4. Doncic
5. Porter
6. JJJ
7. Carter
8. Young
9. Mik Bridges
10. Sexton
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Re: The Draft (Postseason Edition): 1/16/31/59 (NEW POLL) 

Post#1953 » by enigmatics » Wed May 16, 2018 10:22 pm

kennydorglas wrote:Trier is a really good shooter.
Alkins and PJC probably not.
Miller recruited two shooters but they didnt play much.
Randolph will be very good once he gets decent playing time.


bwgood77 wrote:Well yeah, I wouldn't call them "pure" shooters, but they had good numbers overall on a pretty good number of attempts. I mean, yeah, they seemingly choked in out of conference tourney games.

If you look at Trier and Awklins conference %s though, they are not much different than overall...nearly the same. PJC was much better shooting out of conference.


Guys we're talking about the 81st ranking 3point shooting team in the nation.

We can try to massage the numbers all we want - but fact is they weren't good enough, especially when it mattered. If you're going to have a dominant big man you need guys on the perimeter defenses are afraid of sagging off of.
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Re: The Draft (Postseason Edition): 1/16/31/59 (NEW POLL) 

Post#1954 » by Dr Manute » Wed May 16, 2018 10:25 pm

Mulhollanddrive wrote:At least one of pick 1 or 2 has failed to make All-Star every draft since 1999.

That suggests one of Ayton or Doncic will bust.


my guess is Doncic will not be a bust.
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Re: The Draft (Postseason Edition): 1/16/31/59 (NEW POLL) 

Post#1955 » by jcsunsfan » Wed May 16, 2018 10:27 pm

Mulhollanddrive wrote:At least one of pick 1 or 2 has failed to make All-Star every draft since 1999.

That suggests one of Ayton or Doncic will bust.

Stats. But go look at the individual drafts and the story is much more clear. When Cleveland drafts #1, anything can happen. In most of those drafts, the top two picks were not even that clear. I doubt either of these players ends up a bust.
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Re: The Draft (Postseason Edition): 1/16/31/59 (NEW POLL) 

Post#1956 » by bwgood77 » Wed May 16, 2018 10:28 pm

enigmatics wrote:
kennydorglas wrote:Trier is a really good shooter.
Alkins and PJC probably not.
Miller recruited two shooters but they didnt play much.
Randolph will be very good once he gets decent playing time.


bwgood77 wrote:Well yeah, I wouldn't call them "pure" shooters, but they had good numbers overall on a pretty good number of attempts. I mean, yeah, they seemingly choked in out of conference tourney games.

If you look at Trier and Awklins conference %s though, they are not much different than overall...nearly the same. PJC was much better shooting out of conference.


Guys we're talking about the 81st ranking 3point shooting team in the nation.

We can try to massage the numbers all we want - but fact is they weren't good enough, especially when it mattered. If you're going to have a dominant big man you need guys on the perimeter defenses are afraid of sagging off of.


Like Josh Jackson and TJ Warren?

You do know the Suns were actually 30th out of 30 teams in 3 pt shooting in the NBA right?...and a distant 30th at that. Anyone who watched the Suns much should know they are not full of pure shooters.
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Re: The Draft (Postseason Edition): 1/16/31/59 (NEW POLL) 

Post#1957 » by darealjuice » Wed May 16, 2018 10:28 pm

Read on Twitter


Hutchison supposedly pulled out of the combine because has a draft promise. He's really interesting. 6'7" guard, very fluid and athletic, probably the best defender on his team, decent playmaker, pretty strong handles and shot creation ability, and he has developed into a decent 3-point shooter in his time at Boise State. It's easily to see him as a sleeper outside of the lottery.
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Re: The Draft (Postseason Edition): 1/16/31/59 (NEW POLL) 

Post#1958 » by bwgood77 » Wed May 16, 2018 10:33 pm

Mulhollanddrive wrote:At least one of pick 1 or 2 has failed to make All-Star every draft since 1999.

That suggests one of Ayton or Doncic will bust.


Just as you repeatedly stated about the lottery outcomes, you do know that past results have no impact on current and future ones, especially when we are talking entirely different prospects, correct?
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Re: The Draft (Postseason Edition): 1/16/31/59 (NEW POLL) 

Post#1959 » by SunZel » Wed May 16, 2018 10:35 pm

I know Ayton will put up numbers i just dont think what he does on the floor will help us win so im for Luka.
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Re: The Draft (Postseason Edition): 1/16/31/59 (NEW POLL) 

Post#1960 » by saintEscaton » Wed May 16, 2018 10:41 pm

Possible franchise cornerstone/Stretch 5 who fits the modern NBA at a position with scarce talent lacking intangibles with lower floor vs safer bet 6'8 point wing who probably moves the needle but won't be a perennial First/Second team All-NBA guy at a stacked position who appears to also only be a one way player
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