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McD's Draft Record

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What Grade Would You Give McD's Drafts?

Poll ended at Sun Nov 4, 2018 8:37 pm

A- or better
3
7%
B+
5
12%
B
5
12%
B-
6
14%
C+
3
7%
C
2
5%
C-
12
29%
D+
5
12%
D
1
2%
D- or worse
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 42

WeekapaugGroove
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Re: McD's Draft Record 

Post#21 » by WeekapaugGroove » Sat Oct 6, 2018 9:07 pm

Kerrsed wrote:Im sorry, but to me, trying to grade a GM based on his draft record is a bit....... frivolous and flawed.

To me, its all about players going into the right situations, and development is a huge part of it as well. Thats why i cant get behind the "We drafted Chriss, but Dejounte Murray is a stud and we could have drafted him" type of talk. Look, i was one of Murray's biggest supporters and wanted the Chriss/Murray combo here in Phoenix, but Murray barely played and played like ass in the limited minutes he got for the first couple of seasons (While Chriss actually produced on the court). He sat on the bench of the Spurs for a good 3 seasons, and now is playing pretty good.....after spending 3 years under the leagues best coach developing as a player. Would he have been the same player here? Hell no, we didnt have a Coach Pop.

Reminds me of people being pissed that we didnt keep Rondo after we drafted him years ago. Im a big Rondo guy, and was upset we didnt keep him, but would he have been the same player for us that he was with the Celtics? F NO! He would have rotted away on our bench stuck behind Steve Nash and Barbosa, while he was able to develop at such a high pace because the Celtics were able to give him the start damn near right away and because of who Rondo is and the type of player he is, he benefited hugely from being thrust into the fire of playing major minutes in real games, accelerating his development. Some players develop better coming along slowly, learning the game and its nuances before being thrown to the wolves, others need to be thrown out there and learn from first hand experience.

Thats why you really cant say things like "I give our GM this grade because he drafted this player and these other players turned out so much better". Would those players have turned out that much better if they were here? Would they have turned out just as good being on a different team with different players running a different system with a different philosophy? You really cant say yes because its impossible to know. Thats why rookies and their agents have smartened up. Pre-draft all you hear is "I dont care how high i get drafted, its all about fit". Because they want to go to a team that fits them, one that makes them the turn into the player that people are banking on them to be.

Another example is the Sixers and Noel/Okafor. I dont think Noel or Okafor turn into the "Busts" that people label them if they didnt get picked by the Sixers. If Noel got drafted by the Spurs....man, i think he would have turned into a dominant Gobert type of player. Okafors biggest knock has always been his defense.....but isnt that also Towns knock as well? The difference between the two is coaching and the teams system and player development. Confidence also plays a huge role as well. KAT is confident in himself, while Okafor was stuck being labeled as the worst C on the roster behind Embiid (Who only played a handful of games at the time) and Noel. He played on the worst team in the League which set NBA records for losing. If that kid was on a better team in a better situation, who knows, he could have been the player that KAT is today.

So yeah, i just dont see the point in using a draft record as some sort of barometer for how smart/psychic a GM is, because once the GM selects the player, all the other factors are pretty much out of his hands on whether or not the player Booms or Busts.
What kind of grade would you give mcd for the other aspects of his job, hiring coaches, trades, dealing with players, signing free agents, putting together a roster that makes sense? To me his record is even worse in those aspects of his job.

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Re: McD's Draft Record 

Post#22 » by bwgood77 » Sun Oct 7, 2018 1:21 am

WeekapaugGroove wrote:
Kerrsed wrote:Im sorry, but to me, trying to grade a GM based on his draft record is a bit....... frivolous and flawed.

To me, its all about players going into the right situations, and development is a huge part of it as well. Thats why i cant get behind the "We drafted Chriss, but Dejounte Murray is a stud and we could have drafted him" type of talk. Look, i was one of Murray's biggest supporters and wanted the Chriss/Murray combo here in Phoenix, but Murray barely played and played like ass in the limited minutes he got for the first couple of seasons (While Chriss actually produced on the court). He sat on the bench of the Spurs for a good 3 seasons, and now is playing pretty good.....after spending 3 years under the leagues best coach developing as a player. Would he have been the same player here? Hell no, we didnt have a Coach Pop.

Reminds me of people being pissed that we didnt keep Rondo after we drafted him years ago. Im a big Rondo guy, and was upset we didnt keep him, but would he have been the same player for us that he was with the Celtics? F NO! He would have rotted away on our bench stuck behind Steve Nash and Barbosa, while he was able to develop at such a high pace because the Celtics were able to give him the start damn near right away and because of who Rondo is and the type of player he is, he benefited hugely from being thrust into the fire of playing major minutes in real games, accelerating his development. Some players develop better coming along slowly, learning the game and its nuances before being thrown to the wolves, others need to be thrown out there and learn from first hand experience.

Thats why you really cant say things like "I give our GM this grade because he drafted this player and these other players turned out so much better". Would those players have turned out that much better if they were here? Would they have turned out just as good being on a different team with different players running a different system with a different philosophy? You really cant say yes because its impossible to know. Thats why rookies and their agents have smartened up. Pre-draft all you hear is "I dont care how high i get drafted, its all about fit". Because they want to go to a team that fits them, one that makes them the turn into the player that people are banking on them to be.

Another example is the Sixers and Noel/Okafor. I dont think Noel or Okafor turn into the "Busts" that people label them if they didnt get picked by the Sixers. If Noel got drafted by the Spurs....man, i think he would have turned into a dominant Gobert type of player. Okafors biggest knock has always been his defense.....but isnt that also Towns knock as well? The difference between the two is coaching and the teams system and player development. Confidence also plays a huge role as well. KAT is confident in himself, while Okafor was stuck being labeled as the worst C on the roster behind Embiid (Who only played a handful of games at the time) and Noel. He played on the worst team in the League which set NBA records for losing. If that kid was on a better team in a better situation, who knows, he could have been the player that KAT is today.

So yeah, i just dont see the point in using a draft record as some sort of barometer for how smart/psychic a GM is, because once the GM selects the player, all the other factors are pretty much out of his hands on whether or not the player Booms or Busts.
What kind of grade would you give mcd for the other aspects of his job, hiring coaches, trades, dealing with players, signing free agents, putting together a roster that makes sense? To me his record is even worse in those aspects of his job.

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Yeah, you can't give a guy a pass on draft busts when he also hires the coach....that would be about as bad excuse as he could give. A GM should draft the right players and have the right coach around that player for development.
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Re: McD's Draft Record 

Post#23 » by lilfishi22 » Sun Oct 7, 2018 6:30 am

Kerrsed wrote:Im sorry, but to me, trying to grade a GM based on his draft record is a bit....... frivolous and flawed.

To me, its all about players going into the right situations, and development is a huge part of it as well. Thats why i cant get behind the "We drafted Chriss, but Dejounte Murray is a stud and we could have drafted him" type of talk. Look, i was one of Murray's biggest supporters and wanted the Chriss/Murray combo here in Phoenix, but Murray barely played and played like ass in the limited minutes he got for the first couple of seasons (While Chriss actually produced on the court). He sat on the bench of the Spurs for a good 3 seasons, and now is playing pretty good.....after spending 3 years under the leagues best coach developing as a player. Would he have been the same player here? Hell no, we didnt have a Coach Pop.

Reminds me of people being pissed that we didnt keep Rondo after we drafted him years ago. Im a big Rondo guy, and was upset we didnt keep him, but would he have been the same player for us that he was with the Celtics? F NO! He would have rotted away on our bench stuck behind Steve Nash and Barbosa, while he was able to develop at such a high pace because the Celtics were able to give him the start damn near right away and because of who Rondo is and the type of player he is, he benefited hugely from being thrust into the fire of playing major minutes in real games, accelerating his development. Some players develop better coming along slowly, learning the game and its nuances before being thrown to the wolves, others need to be thrown out there and learn from first hand experience.

Thats why you really cant say things like "I give our GM this grade because he drafted this player and these other players turned out so much better". Would those players have turned out that much better if they were here? Would they have turned out just as good being on a different team with different players running a different system with a different philosophy? You really cant say yes because its impossible to know. Thats why rookies and their agents have smartened up. Pre-draft all you hear is "I dont care how high i get drafted, its all about fit". Because they want to go to a team that fits them, one that makes them the turn into the player that people are banking on them to be.

Another example is the Sixers and Noel/Okafor. I dont think Noel or Okafor turn into the "Busts" that people label them if they didnt get picked by the Sixers. If Noel got drafted by the Spurs....man, i think he would have turned into a dominant Gobert type of player. Okafors biggest knock has always been his defense.....but isnt that also Towns knock as well? The difference between the two is coaching and the teams system and player development. Confidence also plays a huge role as well. KAT is confident in himself, while Okafor was stuck being labeled as the worst C on the roster behind Embiid (Who only played a handful of games at the time) and Noel. He played on the worst team in the League which set NBA records for losing. If that kid was on a better team in a better situation, who knows, he could have been the player that KAT is today.

So yeah, i just dont see the point in using a draft record as some sort of barometer for how smart/psychic a GM is, because once the GM selects the player, all the other factors are pretty much out of his hands on whether or not the player Booms or Busts.

Sorry, he's had way too many top picks in multiple drafts to only have Booker as a legitimate star after half a decade. And the fact is, draft record, especially for a rebuilding team, is and should be a meaningful barometer for how good a GM is. While no GM has a perfect draft record, McD's draft record has very few bright spots. I'm not saying it's easy to find real stars in the draft but it is ultimately his job and if it's not his drafting ability, then what else do you use to gauge a GM's record on the job? Wins and losses? Continued improvement? An identity? Coaching hires? A well balanced and competitive team? Bringing in (young) stars via trades/FA?
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Re: McD's Draft Record 

Post#24 » by Damkac » Sun Oct 7, 2018 4:43 pm

#5 - Alex Len - Bust
#28 - Archie Goodwin - Bust
#14 - TJ Warren - Good Pick
#18 - Tyler Ennis - Bust
#27 - Bogdan Bogdanovic - Good pick but he was traded
#13 - Devin Booker - Steal
#4 - Dragan Bender - Bust
#8 - Marquese Chriss - Bust
#4 - Josh Jackson - Too early to say but he didn't looked good so far
#1 - DeAndre Ayton - No brainer pick
#10 - Mikal Bridges - Too early to say but he didn't looked good so far

This don't looks good.
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Re: McD's Draft Record 

Post#25 » by lilfishi22 » Mon Oct 8, 2018 12:17 am

2013 Overall: D [neither guys we drafted were worth keeping although at least Len is still on an NBA team, just]
#5 - Alex Len: D [it was a poor draft but I never really saw the high level potential in him. McD's first pick so I'll go easy on him. Near bust]
#28 - Archie Goodwin - D [end of the 1st round, high potential, high risk, ultra low floor type of player. Bust but worth the gamble]

2014 Overall: B- [TJ still putting up 20ppg, Bogdan playing well and Ennis isn't in the NBA so McD still drafted fairly well considering our draft positions]
#14 - TJ Warren - A- [whenever you can grab a player at the end of lottery who averages near 20ppg on .500 shooting, that's win, even with all his weaknesses]
#18 - Tyler Ennis - F [didn't like this pick considering we had two starting calibre PG's already and I always thought we had a deal with Toronto and were picking for them. Bust]
#27 - Bogdan Bogdanovic - B [A great draft and stash pick with nice potential. Was one of the most productive young players in Europe. Shame we moved him for a bust]

2015 Overall: A+ [McD's highest achievement as GM, his and our saviour]
#13 - Devin Booker - A+ [Top 2 or top 3 player in that draft (along with Zinger and KAT), near the end of lottery and a legit star]

2016 Overall: E [both picks technically still NBA player but barely. Will probably still around a few more years only because they are young]
#4 - Dragan Bender - D [Wasn't a fan of the pick. Didn't see the high level potential and thus far as shown to be more bust than rotation player. "Still young" and that's really the only reason he's still on an NBA roster at this moment (aside from his contract) Near bust]
#8 - Marquese Chriss - F [Hated the pick for the few reason. 1. didn't like that we traded up in what was generally thought of as a weak draft. 2. didn't like that we drafted (another) super young player who wasn't expected to contribute any time soon and 3. drafting another player in the top 10 who played the same position. Near bust]

2017 Overall: C [considered a fairly strong draft and he's been so-so. He was a good pick based off athletic potential and skills but hasn't really been able to turn it into positive impact]
#4 - Josh Jackson - B- [I thought it was a good high potential pick. I just thought he had a higher floor as well because of his ability to do a lot of things. Problem right now is there are very few things he does well. Still early so can't write him off yet but he has been disappointing]
#32 - Davon Reed - C- [an older prospect who played 4 fairly unimpressive years in college. Played 21 NBA games due to injuries last season but hasn't really impressed anyone. Playing his first injury free season so that could change. As an early 2nd round pick it's fairly low risk and he's cheap but IIRC he wasn't thought of highly pre-draft]

2018 Overall: B+ [I wanted Luka because I thought we needed a high potential playmaker who would make things easier for Booker and the rest of the team. But we ended up with thus far a dominant big man so no complaints.]
#1 - DeAndre Ayton - A [Everyone knows he wasn't my pick but he's been very impressive so far, on both ends of the court. So far so good]
#10 - Mikal Bridges - B [better than whoever else was available at 16 and I do like what he brings but we also paid a high price for him. Thus far as been largely invisible which is somewhat concerning especially since he's a 'vet' among rookies. Still early though]
#31 - Elie Okobo - A- [has been thought of as a mid 1st round to end of lotto talent so to get him at #31 is a good pick. I like his player profile, his skill set and his size. At #31, he's a fine pick]

Overall draft grade: C-

The previous two drafts (2017, 2018), I'm grading just off the information the public has with regards to our due diligence and I'm sure front offices has more so they are likely to change over time as players become NBA players or busts. If McD didn't have Booker or that 48-win season, I truly truly believe he would've been fired already. His team building (via trades or FA) has been subpar and his coaching hires are worse (jury's out on Koko but so far he's been good) and unfortunately, he doesn't really have a solid draft record to stand on either. I don't expect to find gems every in every draft but so many high draft picks and picks outside of the top 10, you have to question his draft record when he only has 2 maybe 3 guys who's worth giving a damn about.
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Re: McD's Draft Record 

Post#26 » by ImNotMcDiSwear » Mon Oct 8, 2018 6:04 pm

mb namesake. happy trails :(
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Re: McD's Draft Record 

Post#27 » by Revived » Mon Oct 8, 2018 7:32 pm

ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:mb namesake. happy trails :(

Jinxed him.
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Re: McD's Draft Record 

Post#28 » by WTFsunsFTW » Tue Oct 9, 2018 3:02 am

You totally jinxed him.

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