Game 10: Nets (4-6) @ Suns (2-7) - 7:00pm (10ET)

[lilfishi22]

Ayton has a 4-cylinder motor. Press the pedal and wait for a response.

Power doesn't come on until 8000rpms but the engine only revs to 7500

[lilfishi22]

Yeah this meme that is developing that Ayton is some horribly deficient defender shows how little the critic knows about the game.

Is there evidence of the contrary? Because there's tons supporting this narrative

[Cutter]

Yeah this meme that is developing that Ayton is some horribly deficient defender shows how little the critic knows about the game.

Is there evidence of the contrary? Because there's tons supporting this narrative

What evidence? I see a very good one on one defender who can guard anyone in the paint, as well as guard PG on the perimeter on a switch. He does get beat at times with his man getting by him for a basket, but overall good man defense. He definitely needs improvement at protecting the rim, especially being more aggressive at blocks. Sometimes he does that but is not consistent. This team is such **** right now it is impossible to get an accurate advance stat view of his defense. Everyone looks bad on the Suns right now.

[bwgood77]

Yeah this meme that is developing that Ayton is some horribly deficient defender shows how little the critic knows about the game.

Is there evidence of the contrary? Because there's tons supporting this narrative

He's good at some things and very bad at some others....same thing as in college. Not sure how many times I've seen him standing by his guy in the paint as a player drives straight to the rim right by him and he watched the layup. He needs to move over, help, get a charge, block the shot as it goes up off the backboard, and those types of things. It happened a ton in college and so far here.

There have been plenty of video evidence detailing it on Cleaning the Glass and stuff.

[itlnsunsfan]

Watch the games. He's a turnstile to a lay-up line.

[bigfoot]

Watch the games. He's a turnstile to a lay-up line.

He learned that from Chandler. That veteran presence paying off already.

[lilfishi22]

Yeah this meme that is developing that Ayton is some horribly deficient defender shows how little the critic knows about the game.

Is there evidence of the contrary? Because there's tons supporting this narrative

What evidence? I see a very good one on one defender who can guard anyone in the paint, as well as guard PG on the perimeter on a switch. He does get beat at times with his man getting by him for a basket, but overall good man defense. He definitely needs improvement at protecting the rim, especially being more aggressive at blocks. Sometimes he does that but is not consistent. This team is such **** right now it is impossible to get an accurate advance stat view of his defense. Everyone looks bad on the Suns right now.

Individual defense isn't all defense though. You have team defense, you have rim protection, you have PnR defense and you have weakside defense etc. I agree he's a solid one on one defender. I've given him props for that. He's a good perimeter defender as well. For the most part, his individual defense is perfectly fine at this stage in his development

It's the other things which he's seriously lagging behind in that hurting his overall defense. And it's super evident when you watch him play. He constantly misses, box out assignments, switches, back door cuts, give-n-goes and he's just not engaged defensively. Shot blocking as a stat isn't really that helpful. What's tells more of the story is defensive FG% at the rim. Among a list of C's (as listed by the NBA), who have defended at least 15FGA at the rim, the best defenders at the rims are:

Ibaka at 51.6FG%
Steve Adams at 56.0FG%
Marc Gasol at 56.4FG%

The guys we think are good rim protectors are
Whiteside at 56.7FG%
Embiid at 57.7FG%
Horford at 59.3FG%
AD at 61.1FG%
Gobert at 64.1FG%

https://stats.nba.com/players/opponent-shooting/?sort=Less%20Than%205%20ft.%20FG%20PCT&dir=-1&Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PlayerPosition=C&CF=Less%20Than%205%20ft.%20FGA*GE*10

This list has about 30 centers on it and Ayton is dead last at 71.5FG%

What's more alarming is, of these C's, 13 of them defend more than 20FGA at the rim per game. The average FG% is 62.2%. That means of the 23.5FGA at the rim that Ayton defends, 16.8 of them are successful. Ayton is by far the worst rim defender in the list. Having poor perimeter defense makes the number worse but Ayton is doing us no favors with his defense, like at all. Last season the worst defender using these same parameters was Kevin Love at 65.2FG%

Watch the games. He's a turnstile to a lay-up line.

He learned that from Chandler. That veteran presence paying off already.

Funny you say that because with Chandler at C, the FG% at the rim is only a marginally better 69.4FG%

[Mr-Al]

Yeah this meme that is developing that Ayton is some horribly deficient defender shows how little the critic knows about the game.

Is there evidence of the contrary? Because there's tons supporting this narrative

What evidence? I see a very good one on one defender who can guard anyone in the paint, as well as guard PG on the perimeter on a switch. He does get beat at times with his man getting by him for a basket, but overall good man defense. He definitely needs improvement at protecting the rim, especially being more aggressive at blocks. Sometimes he does that but is not consistent. This team is such **** right now it is impossible to get an accurate advance stat view of his defense. Everyone looks bad on the Suns right now.

I don't need an advance stat to tell me what my eyes can plainly see

Ayton plays good 1v1 defense because his seemingly simple brain can finally understand who he has to defend.

Maybe he magically gets more IQ and learns how to rotate and help. But guess what, none of that ha anything to do with a lack of effort

That's inexcusable. You're the #1 pick in the draft and you have Shaq's measurements. Play with some intensity

Why should a coach have to tell you to try? Why would you magically discover effort later in your career?

These are the same issues he had in college. It's just who he is

[Mr-Al]

Is there evidence of the contrary? Because there's tons supporting this narrative

What evidence? I see a very good one on one defender who can guard anyone in the paint, as well as guard PG on the perimeter on a switch. He does get beat at times with his man getting by him for a basket, but overall good man defense. He definitely needs improvement at protecting the rim, especially being more aggressive at blocks. Sometimes he does that but is not consistent. This team is such **** right now it is impossible to get an accurate advance stat view of his defense. Everyone looks bad on the Suns right now.

Individual defense isn't all defense though. You have team defense, you have rim protection, you have PnR defense and you have weakside defense etc. I agree he's a solid one on one defender. I've given him props for that. He's a good perimeter defender as well. For the most part, his individual defense is perfectly fine at this stage in his development

It's the other things which he's seriously lagging behind in that hurting his overall defense. And it's super evident when you watch him play. He constantly misses, box out assignments, switches, back door cuts, give-n-goes and he's just not engaged defensively. Shot blocking as a stat isn't really that helpful. What's tells more of the story is defensive FG% at the rim. Among a list of C's (as listed by the NBA), who have defended at least 15FGA at the rim, the best defenders at the rims are:

Ibaka at 51.6FG%
Steve Adams at 56.0FG%
Marc Gasol at 56.4FG%

The guys we think are good rim protectors are
Whiteside at 56.7FG%
Embiid at 57.7FG%
Horford at 59.3FG%
AD at 61.1FG%
Gobert at 64.1FG%

https://stats.nba.com/players/opponent-shooting/?sort=Less%20Than%205%20ft.%20FG%20PCT&dir=-1&Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PlayerPosition=C&CF=Less%20Than%205%20ft.%20FGA*GE*10

This list has about 30 centers on it and Ayton is dead last at 71.5FG%

What's more alarming is, of these C's, 13 of them defend more than 20FGA at the rim per game. The average FG% is 62.2%. That means of the 23.5FGA at the rim that Ayton defends, 16.8 of them are successful. Ayton is by far the worst rim defender in the list. Having poor perimeter defense makes the number worse but Ayton is doing us no favors with his defense, like at all. Last season the worst defender using these same parameters was Kevin Love at 65.2FG%

Watch the games. He's a turnstile to a lay-up line.

He learned that from Chandler. That veteran presence paying off already.

Funny you say that because with Chandler at C, the FG% at the rim is only a marginally better 69.4FG%

oh my god. it's worse than I thought. thanks for finding these stats. what an embarrassment

[bwgood77]

What evidence? I see a very good one on one defender who can guard anyone in the paint, as well as guard PG on the perimeter on a switch. He does get beat at times with his man getting by him for a basket, but overall good man defense. He definitely needs improvement at protecting the rim, especially being more aggressive at blocks. Sometimes he does that but is not consistent. This team is such **** right now it is impossible to get an accurate advance stat view of his defense. Everyone looks bad on the Suns right now.

Individual defense isn't all defense though. You have team defense, you have rim protection, you have PnR defense and you have weakside defense etc. I agree he's a solid one on one defender. I've given him props for that. He's a good perimeter defender as well. For the most part, his individual defense is perfectly fine at this stage in his development

It's the other things which he's seriously lagging behind in that hurting his overall defense. And it's super evident when you watch him play. He constantly misses, box out assignments, switches, back door cuts, give-n-goes and he's just not engaged defensively. Shot blocking as a stat isn't really that helpful. What's tells more of the story is defensive FG% at the rim. Among a list of C's (as listed by the NBA), who have defended at least 15FGA at the rim, the best defenders at the rims are:

Ibaka at 51.6FG%
Steve Adams at 56.0FG%
Marc Gasol at 56.4FG%

The guys we think are good rim protectors are
Whiteside at 56.7FG%
Embiid at 57.7FG%
Horford at 59.3FG%
AD at 61.1FG%
Gobert at 64.1FG%

https://stats.nba.com/players/opponent-shooting/?sort=Less%20Than%205%20ft.%20FG%20PCT&dir=-1&Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PlayerPosition=C&CF=Less%20Than%205%20ft.%20FGA*GE*10

This list has about 30 centers on it and Ayton is dead last at 71.5FG%

What's more alarming is, of these C's, 13 of them defend more than 20FGA at the rim per game. The average FG% is 62.2%. That means of the 23.5FGA at the rim that Ayton defends, 16.8 of them are successful. Ayton is by far the worst rim defender in the list. Having poor perimeter defense makes the number worse but Ayton is doing us no favors with his defense, like at all. Last season the worst defender using these same parameters was Kevin Love at 65.2FG%

He learned that from Chandler. That veteran presence paying off already.

Funny you say that because with Chandler at C, the FG% at the rim is only a marginally better 69.4FG%

oh my god. it's worse than I thought. thanks for finding these stats. what an embarrassment

And Robin Lopez at 50%.....hopefully Ayton can gradually move up this list and at least get to somewhere into the 50s. A player with his stature and wingspan shouldn't be over 70% from 5 feet in. I sorted by Opponent FG% under 5 ft....couldn't link the sorted version though.

[Qwigglez]

Ayton needs to work on his conditioning. He played very well IMO against Gasol the other night. Just need to work on that cardio, oh and get him some new kicks.