Josh Jackson for fultz

[darbstar]

Josh Jackson for Markelle Fultz makes too much sense for both teams.

Fultz game simply doesn’t fit with Ben Simmons and would flourish being the lead Point guard else where. Josh Jackson could replace coverington for the Sixer.

Fultz and booker would suit each other and Ayton could do with a point guard like fultz who would get him the ball.

Other options are John Wall and trey Burke but I think Fultz in the right situation will explode

[sunsbg]

Josh Jackson for Markelle Fultz makes too much sense for both teams.

Fultz game simply doesn’t fit with Ben Simmons and would flourish being the lead Point guard else where. Josh Jackson could replace coverington for the Sixer.

Fultz and booker would suit each other and Ayton could do with a point guard like fultz who would get him the ball.

Other options are John Wall and trey Burke but I think Fultz in the right situation will explode

It makes sense only for the Suns.

The Sixers just acquired Butler and JJ's fit with Simmons is just as questionable.

All other teams in the league got lucky Fultz didn't live up to the expectations, otherwise 76ers would have been unstoppable in a few years.

[nevetsov]

Agreed, makes less sense now post Butler trade. They need shooters alongside Simmons and Embiid, and JJ doesn't fit that criteria.

That said, I think:
TJ/ Reddick/ Butler/ Simmons/ Embiid
Is going to function much better than:
Fultz/ Reddick/ Butler/ Simmons/ Embiid

[bwgood77]

Agreed, makes less sense now post Butler trade. They need shooters alongside Simmons and Embiid, and JJ doesn't fit that criteria.

That said, I think:
TJ/ Reddick/ Butler/ Simmons/ Embiid
Is going to function much better than:
Fultz/ Reddick/ Butler/ Simmons/ Embiid

TJ is now behind Landry Shamet on their depth chart.

[AtheJ415]

If we're trading with 76ers, they likely want picks and Ariza, Bridges, or Warren. I am not about to trade Warren now that he can shoot 3s, so it would likely have to be Ariza plus expensive picks, including our own this upcoming year. That said, I would probably do it though would make every effort to top 3 protect it because Zion or RJ alone is much more valuable than Fultz at this point. Fultz would be the top PG prospect in this draft. All of that said I still don't see Philly tradinghim until next year if his struggles continue.

[lilfishi22]

I don't really see the fit with the Sixers even pre-Butler trade. Covington worked because he's good off the ball, can guard multiple positions and had a somewhat reliable 3PT shot.

As much as I like Fultz, that #1 overall pick luster is falling off him real quick. Even if he's not able to shoot, his inability to create his own offensive consistently is bit scary.

[Andrew McCeltic]

Josh and the MIL pick for Rozier/filler is what I think ends up happening..

[nevetsov]

Josh and the MIL pick for Rozier/filler is what I think ends up happening..

If I were the Celts, I'd be pushing for a Rozier for Sexton trade. Gets you a cost controlled replacement so you don't have to worry about paying 2 PGs in the offseason. Smart can play some backup PG until Sexton is ready to be a full time contributor. And CLE gets a ready-now PG who they can throw money at in the offseason, since no one else is signing there.

[Andrew McCeltic]

Josh and the MIL pick for Rozier/filler is what I think ends up happening..

If I were the Celts, I'd be pushing for a Rozier for Sexton trade. Gets you a cost controlled replacement so you don't have to worry about paying 2 PGs in the offseason. Smart can play some backup PG until Sexton is ready to be a full time contributor. And CLE gets a ready-now PG who they can throw money at in the offseason, since no one else is signing there.

I know Cleveland likes Rozier, but I don't know if they're ready to give up Sexton for him. Rozier for Ntilikina+ is another scenario - cost control, and a work in progress on offense who won't complain about minutes or touches and can guard three positions..

[bwgood77]

Josh and the MIL pick for Rozier/filler is what I think ends up happening..

If I were the Celts, I'd be pushing for a Rozier for Sexton trade. Gets you a cost controlled replacement so you don't have to worry about paying 2 PGs in the offseason. Smart can play some backup PG until Sexton is ready to be a full time contributor. And CLE gets a ready-now PG who they can throw money at in the offseason, since no one else is signing there.

Why would Cleveland trade Sexton for Rozier? I mean the only reason we are thinking about it is because we are desperate. The guy isn't an efficient scorer and not much of a passer.

[lilfishi22]

Josh and the MIL pick for Rozier/filler is what I think ends up happening..

If I were the Celts, I'd be pushing for a Rozier for Sexton trade. Gets you a cost controlled replacement so you don't have to worry about paying 2 PGs in the offseason. Smart can play some backup PG until Sexton is ready to be a full time contributor. And CLE gets a ready-now PG who they can throw money at in the offseason, since no one else is signing there.

Why would Cleveland trade Sexton for Rozier? I mean the only reason we are thinking about it is because we are desperate. The guy isn't an efficient scorer and not much of a passer.

I compared Wall and Rozier as they were the two that's been most talked about recently as potential Suns PG and it's bad either way. Clearly Wall is the better player but not worth his contract but I tried to make a case for Rozier based on being cheaper and more justifiable than Wall but looking at his stats, he doesn't even come close to league average TS% and that's despite shooting 43% from the 3. Like how?!

Between these two guys, it's really pick your poison and I don't want either guys on the Suns. If I was Cleveland, I would rather run with what we have in Sexton and hope he turns into a starting level PG rather than trade for Rozier who's going to add $15-20m to their already bloated salary situation.

[nevetsov]

Josh and the MIL pick for Rozier/filler is what I think ends up happening..

If I were the Celts, I'd be pushing for a Rozier for Sexton trade. Gets you a cost controlled replacement so you don't have to worry about paying 2 PGs in the offseason. Smart can play some backup PG until Sexton is ready to be a full time contributor. And CLE gets a ready-now PG who they can throw money at in the offseason, since no one else is signing there.

Why would Cleveland trade Sexton for Rozier? I mean the only reason we are thinking about it is because we are desperate. The guy isn't an efficient scorer and not much of a passer.

Cleveland is more desperate than we are right now. Reports are they love Rozier, and there was that little hiccup about them not being too enthused with Sexton (make of it what you will). If they like Rozier more than Sexton, and are desperate (a given), why isn't it plausible? Teams do stupid things all the time. This actually sounds like a cleveland move to me.

[bwgood77]

If I were the Celts, I'd be pushing for a Rozier for Sexton trade. Gets you a cost controlled replacement so you don't have to worry about paying 2 PGs in the offseason. Smart can play some backup PG until Sexton is ready to be a full time contributor. And CLE gets a ready-now PG who they can throw money at in the offseason, since no one else is signing there.

Why would Cleveland trade Sexton for Rozier? I mean the only reason we are thinking about it is because we are desperate. The guy isn't an efficient scorer and not much of a passer.

I compared Wall and Rozier as they were the two that's been most talked about recently as potential Suns PG and it's bad either way. Clearly Wall is the better player but not worth his contract but I tried to make a case for Rozier based on being cheaper and more justifiable than Wall but looking at his stats, he doesn't even come close to league average TS% and that's despite shooting 43% from the 3. Like how?!

Between these two guys, it's really pick your poison and I don't want either guys on the Suns. If I was Cleveland, I would rather run with what we have in Sexton and hope he turns into a starting level PG rather than trade for Rozier who's going to add $15-20m to their already bloated salary situation.

I don't want either. I used to really like Wall but he is declining very quickly and is a problem with teammates and just looks for his numbers. He would probably put up decent numbers and people would say "Look how good his numbers are!" but we'd still suck because it wouldn't be efficient on tons of shots and he is quickly declining defensively.

Rozier wants to get paid a lot and is WAY below league average on TS%...like 51%. He has the 5th best ast % on the Celtics and just a tad above Tatum who is basically the same.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/2019.html

Both will not come close to living up to next contracts. We just can't afford to make any more dumb decisions.

[lilfishi22]

Why would Cleveland trade Sexton for Rozier? I mean the only reason we are thinking about it is because we are desperate. The guy isn't an efficient scorer and not much of a passer.

I compared Wall and Rozier as they were the two that's been most talked about recently as potential Suns PG and it's bad either way. Clearly Wall is the better player but not worth his contract but I tried to make a case for Rozier based on being cheaper and more justifiable than Wall but looking at his stats, he doesn't even come close to league average TS% and that's despite shooting 43% from the 3. Like how?!

Between these two guys, it's really pick your poison and I don't want either guys on the Suns. If I was Cleveland, I would rather run with what we have in Sexton and hope he turns into a starting level PG rather than trade for Rozier who's going to add $15-20m to their already bloated salary situation.

I don't want either. I used to really like Wall but he is declining very quickly and is a problem with teammates and just looks for his numbers. He would probably put up decent numbers and people would say "Look how good his numbers are!" but we'd still suck because it wouldn't be efficient on tons of shots and he is quickly declining defensively.

Rozier wants to get paid a lot and is WAY below league average on TS%...like 51%. He has the 5th best ast % on the Celtics and just a tad above Tatum who is basically the same.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/2019.html

Both will not come close to living up to next contracts. We just can't afford to make any more dumb decisions.

Wall was one of my favourite young PG's. I still have a jersey of his before he even played an NBA game. That's how much of a fan of his I was. But he just hasn't lived up to the hype. People are so desperate for improvement, any improvement, that they don't even care at what cost. Might as well max out Rozier if we didn't care about cap space and any help is good help.

[bwgood77]

I compared Wall and Rozier as they were the two that's been most talked about recently as potential Suns PG and it's bad either way. Clearly Wall is the better player but not worth his contract but I tried to make a case for Rozier based on being cheaper and more justifiable than Wall but looking at his stats, he doesn't even come close to league average TS% and that's despite shooting 43% from the 3. Like how?!

Between these two guys, it's really pick your poison and I don't want either guys on the Suns. If I was Cleveland, I would rather run with what we have in Sexton and hope he turns into a starting level PG rather than trade for Rozier who's going to add $15-20m to their already bloated salary situation.

I don't want either. I used to really like Wall but he is declining very quickly and is a problem with teammates and just looks for his numbers. He would probably put up decent numbers and people would say "Look how good his numbers are!" but we'd still suck because it wouldn't be efficient on tons of shots and he is quickly declining defensively.

Rozier wants to get paid a lot and is WAY below league average on TS%...like 51%. He has the 5th best ast % on the Celtics and just a tad above Tatum who is basically the same.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/2019.html

Both will not come close to living up to next contracts. We just can't afford to make any more dumb decisions.

Wall was one of my favourite young PG's. I still have a jersey of his before he even played an NBA game. That's how much of a fan of his I was. But he just hasn't lived up to the hype. People are so desperate for improvement, any improvement, that they don't even care at what cost. Might as well max out Rozier if we didn't care about cap space and any help is good help.

The more I exam Rozier, I wouldn't even want to go after him in FA (unless he was the last and only option), so I sure don't want to give up good assets for him. If we could get him for a 2nd or something like we did for Payton to try him out and see if it's worth keeping, I'd be ok with that, but they won't accept something like that.

[Andrew McCeltic]

If I were the Celts, I'd be pushing for a Rozier for Sexton trade. Gets you a cost controlled replacement so you don't have to worry about paying 2 PGs in the offseason. Smart can play some backup PG until Sexton is ready to be a full time contributor. And CLE gets a ready-now PG who they can throw money at in the offseason, since no one else is signing there.

Why would Cleveland trade Sexton for Rozier? I mean the only reason we are thinking about it is because we are desperate. The guy isn't an efficient scorer and not much of a passer.

I compared Wall and Rozier as they were the two that's been most talked about recently as potential Suns PG and it's bad either way. Clearly Wall is the better player but not worth his contract but I tried to make a case for Rozier based on being cheaper and more justifiable than Wall but looking at his stats, he doesn't even come close to league average TS% and that's despite shooting 43% from the 3. Like how?!

Between these two guys, it's really pick your poison and I don't want either guys on the Suns. If I was Cleveland, I would rather run with what we have in Sexton and hope he turns into a starting level PG rather than trade for Rozier who's going to add $15-20m to their already bloated salary situation.

I think the bet with Rozier is that he can keep improving offensively - if you look at his game log from last year, he had a few months where he shot above 40 percent. He's also an above average rebounder for his position and is I think sixth in the league in defensive rating right now.

He's not going to get 20 million - he's hoping for 20 million. If his field goal percentage stays under .400, he could get Smart money - the 12 million offer Boston made last month. He'd be in that dead spot where no one offers him enough to get his team not to match. Otherwise he's going to be anywhere from 14-18 million - the only way he gets 20 is if he plays well enough on his new team to warrant it - and then he's going to be worth the money.

Cleveland's ok if they can find someone to take Hill or Smith..

[bwgood77]

Why would Cleveland trade Sexton for Rozier? I mean the only reason we are thinking about it is because we are desperate. The guy isn't an efficient scorer and not much of a passer.

I compared Wall and Rozier as they were the two that's been most talked about recently as potential Suns PG and it's bad either way. Clearly Wall is the better player but not worth his contract but I tried to make a case for Rozier based on being cheaper and more justifiable than Wall but looking at his stats, he doesn't even come close to league average TS% and that's despite shooting 43% from the 3. Like how?!

Between these two guys, it's really pick your poison and I don't want either guys on the Suns. If I was Cleveland, I would rather run with what we have in Sexton and hope he turns into a starting level PG rather than trade for Rozier who's going to add $15-20m to their already bloated salary situation.

I think the bet with Rozier is that he can keep improving offensively - if you look at his game log from last year, he had a few months where he shot above 40 percent. He's also an above average rebounder for his position and is I think sixth in the league in defensive rating right now.

He's not going to get 20 million - he's hoping for 20 million. If his field goal percentage stays under .400, he could get Smart money - the 12 million offer Boston made last month. He'd be in that dead spot where no one offers him enough to get his team not to match. Otherwise he's going to be anywhere from 14-18 million - the only way he gets 20 is if he plays well enough on his new team to warrant it - and then he's going to be worth the money.

Cleveland's ok if they can find someone to take Hill or Smith..

I hope Cleveland buys out Hill. We could have traded for him if we had the Chandler contract.

[lilfishi22]

Why would Cleveland trade Sexton for Rozier? I mean the only reason we are thinking about it is because we are desperate. The guy isn't an efficient scorer and not much of a passer.

I compared Wall and Rozier as they were the two that's been most talked about recently as potential Suns PG and it's bad either way. Clearly Wall is the better player but not worth his contract but I tried to make a case for Rozier based on being cheaper and more justifiable than Wall but looking at his stats, he doesn't even come close to league average TS% and that's despite shooting 43% from the 3. Like how?!

Between these two guys, it's really pick your poison and I don't want either guys on the Suns. If I was Cleveland, I would rather run with what we have in Sexton and hope he turns into a starting level PG rather than trade for Rozier who's going to add $15-20m to their already bloated salary situation.

I think the bet with Rozier is that he can keep improving offensively - if you look at his game log from last year, he had a few months where he shot above 40 percent. He's also an above average rebounder for his position and is I think sixth in the league in defensive rating right now.

He's not going to get 20 million - he's hoping for 20 million. If his field goal percentage stays under .400, he could get Smart money - the 12 million offer Boston made last month. He'd be in that dead spot where no one offers him enough to get his team not to match. Otherwise he's going to be anywhere from 14-18 million - the only way he gets 20 is if he plays well enough on his new team to warrant it - and then he's going to be worth the money.

Cleveland's ok if they can find someone to take Hill or Smith..

You're a Celtics fan, you've watched more of him than most of us here. Honestly, what does he do that's objectively and consistently above average?

From what I've seen this season so far, he's still super streaky, he's not a consistently high level defender imo, he's not much of a shooter despite playing with multiple shooting threats around him and I'm still not sure what his upside is from a player comparison standpoint.

[bwgood77]

I compared Wall and Rozier as they were the two that's been most talked about recently as potential Suns PG and it's bad either way. Clearly Wall is the better player but not worth his contract but I tried to make a case for Rozier based on being cheaper and more justifiable than Wall but looking at his stats, he doesn't even come close to league average TS% and that's despite shooting 43% from the 3. Like how?!

Between these two guys, it's really pick your poison and I don't want either guys on the Suns. If I was Cleveland, I would rather run with what we have in Sexton and hope he turns into a starting level PG rather than trade for Rozier who's going to add $15-20m to their already bloated salary situation.

I think the bet with Rozier is that he can keep improving offensively - if you look at his game log from last year, he had a few months where he shot above 40 percent. He's also an above average rebounder for his position and is I think sixth in the league in defensive rating right now.

He's not going to get 20 million - he's hoping for 20 million. If his field goal percentage stays under .400, he could get Smart money - the 12 million offer Boston made last month. He'd be in that dead spot where no one offers him enough to get his team not to match. Otherwise he's going to be anywhere from 14-18 million - the only way he gets 20 is if he plays well enough on his new team to warrant it - and then he's going to be worth the money.

Cleveland's ok if they can find someone to take Hill or Smith..

You're a Celtics fan, you've watched more of him than most of us here. Honestly, what does he do that's objectively and consistently above average?

From what I've seen this season so far, he's still super streaky, he's not a consistently high level defender imo, he's not much of a shooter despite playing with multiple shooting threats around him and I'm still not sure what his upside is from a player comparison standpoint.

I know you are not asking me, but he did have one of the best DRTGs in the NBA. Now part of that is because of the team you are on...usually all the players are in a certain team range, but I think he was one of the best on the team, so he was more a driver of that...Smart was the only one with a better one (who played much).

[Andrew McCeltic]

I compared Wall and Rozier as they were the two that's been most talked about recently as potential Suns PG and it's bad either way. Clearly Wall is the better player but not worth his contract but I tried to make a case for Rozier based on being cheaper and more justifiable than Wall but looking at his stats, he doesn't even come close to league average TS% and that's despite shooting 43% from the 3. Like how?!

Between these two guys, it's really pick your poison and I don't want either guys on the Suns. If I was Cleveland, I would rather run with what we have in Sexton and hope he turns into a starting level PG rather than trade for Rozier who's going to add $15-20m to their already bloated salary situation.

I think the bet with Rozier is that he can keep improving offensively - if you look at his game log from last year, he had a few months where he shot above 40 percent. He's also an above average rebounder for his position and is I think sixth in the league in defensive rating right now.

He's not going to get 20 million - he's hoping for 20 million. If his field goal percentage stays under .400, he could get Smart money - the 12 million offer Boston made last month. He'd be in that dead spot where no one offers him enough to get his team not to match. Otherwise he's going to be anywhere from 14-18 million - the only way he gets 20 is if he plays well enough on his new team to warrant it - and then he's going to be worth the money.

Cleveland's ok if they can find someone to take Hill or Smith..

You're a Celtics fan, you've watched more of him than most of us here. Honestly, what does he do that's objectively and consistently above average?

From what I've seen this season so far, he's still super streaky, he's not a consistently high level defender imo, he's not much of a shooter despite playing with multiple shooting threats around him and I'm still not sure what his upside is from a player comparison standpoint.

I mentioned two things in the post you quoted.. He's an above average to excellent defender, he's an above average rebounder, his perimeter shooting is "above average". He doesn't attempt difficult passes but he's very very good at protecting the ball. I think he's top ten in assist to turnover ratio right now. That's, what, four categories? His shooting inside the arc is the only blemish..