Game 12 : Suns (2-9) @ Pelicans (5-6), 5:00pm

[denial]

We are *one* player away from having a significantly different record.
I do not agree with the notion that other coaches would do great without a point guard.
I also do not see this team quitting or hanging their heads.
I'll judge Koko, and everyone, once they get a point guard.
I also won't freak out when we lose to teams like the Pelicans and the Celtics. It would be an upset if we beat those teams.
The other teams, that we should beat, again, I will reserve my judgement until we have a point guard.

It would be like if we were an nfl team without a starting quarterback. Yeah, there could be a lot of different problems. But you don't really know until you get an actual qb.

[denial]

We play hot potato till one of our chuckers get the ball.

To me, the word "chucker" means specifically that there was not ball movement and the shot was not open. Playing "hot potato" is getting them good looks.

I think we sort of have an offensive identity. We were leading the league in assists (and points off assists?)
So we share the ball really well and we are pretty good at finding good shots.


I think the problem is more the PG issue, and the fact that this team has only played together for 7 games (book injured rest of the time) and we are an extremely young team that leans heavily on rookies and second year players.

I think thats a deceptive stat. We play hot potato till one of our chuckers get the ball. We really dont have many guys who can ISO. We dont get many fast break points and Im not sure if we have but one or two defensive break aways so far. Weve lost by 28, 18, 20, 21, 7, 30, 9, 22, 7, and 20. IF anything, this shows I am missing the boat in vegas on these failer sailors. But yeah, we are young so there's that.

Interesting stat is that we are 27th in FG attempted. Perhaps the lack of fast breaks causes that. (to your point)

In terms of "dont have many guys who can iso" I don't think that is an issue at all. I dont need a team full of heros. I like a single hero, here and there, but we dont need a bunch of them.

The stat I cited is not deceptive at all, in terms of "identity" (which was the topic). If you mean its deceptive, like, -we are not good offensively despite having a lot of assists-, then I agree with you.
But the problem is very likely the number of attempts.
We are 27th in attempts, and also 27th in Pts, and also 27th in 2P FGM.... there seems to be a direct correlation.
So basically, we need to get up 10 more shots per game and we are the Golden State Warriors all of the sudden.

My point is kinda moot though because I just looked it up and we're 19th in assists. Not sure why I thought we led the league.

[denial]

I never really look at stats.
I just spent some time at https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/PHO/2019.html and I don't know what jumps at me the most.
There are alarming stats all over the place.
But if you scroll to the very bottom and look under "player salaries"... that tells the whole story.
I always supported McD... but damn. Just look at it.

(PS: Why are we paying Darrell Arthur?)
Now I know why you guys are always so cranky... you must look at these stats. They are depressing and offer no hope. We are awful on paper. I'll acknowledge it.

(Looking at minute distribution, the only thing I dont like is Ariza. Otherwise I think Koko has it right for the most part)
Actually if you look at the numbers, I feel much better about Koko. I am not sure what else he can do. Ariza gets too many minutes. But otherwise it looks good. At its not like we have a lot of viable options as alternatives. Sorry I am a bit all over the place this morning.

[Years90Suns]

I don't hate Igor. I want the guy to be successful. He reminds me of Hornacek though. The guys don't respect him because they don't play hard for him. That and his questionable rotations and strategy and it's no wonder why so many on this board are not liking what we're seeing so far.

Hornacek was a surprise success and almost won coach of the year with a roster expected to win 17 games but won 48. We had that one guy who dove for the loose balls and set the tone in Tucker but we also had Dragic and Frye, but really didn't have too much else...Bledsoe for half a year and otherwise Green, Plumlee, Markieff, etc. They bought in.

But when the roster became unbalanced and we lost our PF and added a 3rd PG, we had problems...and it just got worse, and then the GM started pissing players off which made everything go downhill.

That same GM set up this unbalanced team. PG is the most important position. It's like having a crappy QB in the NFL. If you have a guy who shouldn't even be starting AT ALL and probably wouldn't even be second string on many teams, in the NFL you are likely to get blown out consistently.

As Saberestar mentioned, we desperately need a decent PG. It would make a world of difference.

It would be difficult to point out what Canaan does wrongly out there. He shoots well and when he can, he gets to the basket even with more ease than one could think of. He can dribble without a problem and even get by defenders easier than expected.
But then you can see that the rest of the team does not play at a level one could think of when you see at the pieces we have.

I mean: Booker, Warren and Ayton are, right now, three second line players in this league. No, they are not first line players, as Curry, KD, LBJ, AD, Anteto, etc., but not many teams can say that they have three players that can score 20+ each game with good percentages (there are teams with 2-3 players over 20 points, but their percentages are sooooo sad to see).

We definetely need a point guard that can get the best out of the rest. Booker, Warren and Ayton could win us 40 games alone if playing with simply a Bledsoe, Jackson, Rozier, Augustine, Collison, Schroder, RR, Teague... not to mention a Walker, Paul, Lillard, Conley, Murray, Wall...

We need to see what teams are underperforming and which of them have a PG that could interest us and they could be willing to trade for an interesting package.
We have already enough assets and will have a pick in 2019. Enough with that. Now we need to cash in something and develope our assets.
Getting a PG NOW and a rookie in june would be great. We could part ways with Jackson/Ariza, Bender and Anderson.

[Scutt]

I don't hate Igor. I want the guy to be successful. He reminds me of Hornacek though. The guys don't respect him because they don't play hard for him. That and his questionable rotations and strategy and it's no wonder why so many on this board are not liking what we're seeing so far.

Hornacek was a surprise success and almost won coach of the year with a roster expected to win 17 games but won 48. We had that one guy who dove for the loose balls and set the tone in Tucker but we also had Dragic and Frye, but really didn't have too much else...Bledsoe for half a year and otherwise Green, Plumlee, Markieff, etc. They bought in.

But when the roster became unbalanced and we lost our PF and added a 3rd PG, we had problems...and it just got worse, and then the GM started pissing players off which made everything go downhill.

That same GM set up this unbalanced team. PG is the most important position. It's like having a crappy QB in the NFL. If you have a guy who shouldn't even be starting AT ALL and probably wouldn't even be second string on many teams, in the NFL you are likely to get blown out consistently.

As Saberestar mentioned, we desperately need a decent PG. It would make a world of difference.

It would be difficult to point out what Canaan does wrongly out there. He shoots well and when he can, he gets to the basket even with more ease than one could think of. He can dribble without a problem and even get by defenders easier than expected.
But then you can see that the rest of the team does not play at a level one could think of when you see at the pieces we have.

I mean: Booker, Warren and Ayton are, right now, three second line players in this league. No, they are not first line players, as Curry, KD, LBJ, AD, Anteto, etc., but not many teams can say that they have three players that can score 20+ each game with good percentages (there are teams with 2-3 players over 20 points, but their percentages are sooooo sad to see).

We definetely need a point guard that can get the best out of the rest. Booker, Warren and Ayton could win us 40 games alone if playing with simply a Bledsoe, Jackson, Rozier, Augustine, Collison, Schroder, RR, Teague... not to mention a Walker, Paul, Lillard, Conley, Murray, Wall...

We need to see what teams are underperforming and which of them have a PG that could interest us and they could be willing to trade for an interesting package.
We have already enough assets and will have a pick in 2019. Enough with that. Now we need to cash in something and develope our assets.
Getting a PG NOW and a rookie in june would be great. We could part ways with Jackson/Ariza, Bender and Anderson.

Are you trying to troll with this post or did you forget the green font?

It's hard to tell what Canaan does bad out there?? Uh, how about shooting the ball?

Adding Bledsoe, Rozier, or Jackson would put us at 40 wins?? Yeah, ok

[Jdiddy701]

I cooled down. I will give Igor a chance. I do agree the Suns need a starting point guard before anyone says he should be fired (including myself).

I just think the current roster is better than a lot of teams and the Suns should not be getting blown out every game. The Suns have a better roster than the Kings and Nets.

I just don’t have much faith in his development with Deandre Ayton and Mikal Bridges. I think a good coach can get Ayton to play so much better and reach his potential. I hope Igor proves me wrong.


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[bwgood77]

I cooled down. I will give Igor a chance. I do agree the Suns need a starting point guard before anyone says he should be fired (including myself).

I just think the current roster is better than a lot of teams and the Suns should not be getting blown out every game. The Suns have a better roster than the Kings and Nets.

I just don’t have much faith in his development with Deandre Ayton and Mikal Bridges. I think a good coach can get Ayton to play so much better and reach his potential. I hope Igor proves me wrong.


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Just posted an article in the Ayton thread. Igor mentioned that Ayton should come out and be more aggressive. Ayton thought he was just fine in that regard.

[wheezy]

I don't see how any coach in NBA history can be considered worse than Igor Kokoskov has been so far.

Earl Watson

Terry Porter

[lilfishi22]

Regardless of the rest of the roster, Igor has 3 legitimate starters on his team. Guys that would start for most teams around the league. Some blame falls on him, some blame falls on our management for not addressing two positions, and some fall on the players. There's a lot of blame to go around.

3 starters (2 of which are really role players at this point in their career) isn't enough to win games. Especially when you might have only one other starting level player coming off the bench and the talent after that falling right off the cliff.

I put a lot of blame on the front office (and ultimately Sarver since he's the owner) for this current roster make up. They've had more than a year to find a PG, ANY starting calibre PG and we were going into the season with essentially 3.5 G-leaguers (Canaan, Okobo, Melton, Shaq before he was cut). They also take a lot of blame for some of the draft picks which have ended up being wasted tanking efforts. Only just now are we (I assume) starting to attempt to turn this tanker around but that thing is slow to change direction because of the losing momentum (culture) already built, it's heavy and takes a monumental effort which no entity (player, GM, coach) can single-handedly can take on on their own. It's an effort where everyone has to have a hand in. The players HAVE to play harder, they have to improve and they have to learn to play together. The coach HAS to make better decisions on the court, he has to recognise which players should play more minutes and he has to do more to motivate players. The front office HAS to get us a PG, they have to start planning for a season or two down the line and they cannot make moves that would hurt our future. AND the fans HAVE to understand that this isn't going to be as smooth or as rapid a turnaround as we (and I) had hoped.

But in terms of actually W's, I don't put too much blame on Igor because the talent level is just way too top heavy. Igor does need to take some blame on some horrifying line up changes and what appeared to be some sort of miscommunication in that Boston game but while the ultimate results isn't very glowing, I think at least offensively, we're starting to have some structure of an offense which is far from what we hated seeing essentially the last 2 seasons (Booker iso). Having some sort of offensive structure, even if it hasn't ended up turning into W's, is a good improvement.

[lilfishi22]

I'm frustrated with Igor as well. But firing him solves nothing and it makes things even worse.

Oh, and the xenophobia is starting to show, guys.

I didn't want to bring that up but I see it

[lilfishi22]

I don't see how any coach in NBA history can be considered worse than Igor Kokoskov has been so far.

Earl Watson

Terry Porter

It's this kind of rhetoric which makes the board tough to read sometimes. Adds zero value and these hot takes are baseless

[SlovenianDragon]

Phoenix Suns Recall Guard De’Anthony Melton

"Melton played three games in his second assignment to the NBA G League, where he averaged 18.7 points, 7.0 rebounds and 6.0 assists. On Tuesday at the Iowa Wolves, Melton became the second player in team history to achieve a triple-double (19 points, 13 assists, 10 rebounds), and first in the league overall to record one within his first two career NBA G League games since Jae Crowder did it in the 2013-14 campaign.
Overall, Melton has played four games in the NBA G League, averaging 18.0 points, 7.3 rebounds and 6.0 assists in 36.0 minutes per game. He is the only player in the league averaging at least 18 points, seven rebounds and six assists."

https://northernarizona.gleague.nba.com/news/phoenix-suns-recall-guard-deanthony-melton/

[SlovenianDragon]

I'm frustrated with Igor as well. But firing him solves nothing and it makes things even worse.

Oh, and the xenophobia is starting to show, guys.

I didn't want to bring that up but I see it

Xenophobia?

Yeah people are mad at him because hes European not because the suns are playing awful under him.

By your logic do you think people here would critize him if the Suns had the best record in the league...

"Fire him hes European we are doing to well!"

[lilfishi22]

I'm frustrated with Igor as well. But firing him solves nothing and it makes things even worse.

Oh, and the xenophobia is starting to show, guys.

I didn't want to bring that up but I see it

Xenophobia?

Yeah people are mad at him because hes European not because the suns are playing awful under him.

By your logic do you think people here would critize him if the Suns had the best record in the league...

"Fire him hes European we are doing to well!"

Posters have legit said that the players couldn't understand his "broken" English. They've said his "euro" brand of basketball doesn't work. That's despite him having been coaching in the NBA for 20 years. That's despite him being one of the architect's behind the Utah Jazz offensive system and the (re)emergence of Rubio and Spider Mitchell. Just because he found success over a summer in the Euroleague doesn't mean his brand of basketball is European and doesn't work. I mean seriously, posters are just throwing in the fact that he's not actually American as a reason why it's not working.

It's fine to criticize him for his substitutions, his insistence on playing non-NBA player and he has to take at least some blame for our current W/L record but honestly, some of the rhetoric on here is getting real xenophobic

[SlovenianDragon]

I didn't want to bring that up but I see it

Xenophobia?

Yeah people are mad at him because hes European not because the suns are playing awful under him.

By your logic do you think people here would critize him if the Suns had the best record in the league...

"Fire him hes European we are doing to well!"

Posters have legit said that the players couldn't understand his "broken" English. They've said his "euro" brand of basketball doesn't work. That's despite him having been coaching in the NBA for 20 years. That's despite him being one of the architect's behind the Utah Jazz offensive system and the (re)emergence of Rubio and Spider Mitchell. Just because he found success over a summer in the Euroleague doesn't mean his brand of basketball is European and doesn't work. I mean seriously, posters are just throwing in the fact that he's not actually American as a reason why it's not working.

It's fine to criticize him for his substitutions, his insistence on playing non-NBA player and he has to take at least some blame for our current W/L record but honestly, some of the rhetoric on here is getting real xenophobic

Calling it xenophobia is very melodramatic. No1 here hates him purely for being European.

[D3ko]

I didn't want to bring that up but I see it

Xenophobia?

Yeah people are mad at him because hes European not because the suns are playing awful under him.

By your logic do you think people here would critize him if the Suns had the best record in the league...

"Fire him hes European we are doing to well!"

Posters have legit said that the players couldn't understand his "broken" English. They've said his "euro" brand of basketball doesn't work. That's despite him having been coaching in the NBA for 20 years. That's despite him being one of the architect's behind the Utah Jazz offensive system and the (re)emergence of Rubio and Spider Mitchell. Just because he found success over a summer in the Euroleague doesn't mean his brand of basketball is European and doesn't work. I mean seriously, posters are just throwing in the fact that he's not actually American as a reason why it's not working.

It's fine to criticize him for his substitutions, his insistence on playing non-NBA player and he has to take at least some blame for our current W/L record but honestly, some of the rhetoric on here is getting real xenophobic

The funny thing about that, is that Doncic is not here because of that alpha dogs have to be like Ayton, big strong, can dunk easily, good luck Phoenix, you waste your chance of not being the new Sacramento Kings.ENJOY

Fire KOKO and bring Mark Jackson , such a Phoenix move. Bring back the passion, effort with a preacher, X & O, advance stats are useless, ISO play for everyone, the championship is coming!!!!

[SlovenianDragon]

Xenophobia?

Yeah people are mad at him because hes European not because the suns are playing awful under him.

By your logic do you think people here would critize him if the Suns had the best record in the league...

"Fire him hes European we are doing to well!"

Posters have legit said that the players couldn't understand his "broken" English. They've said his "euro" brand of basketball doesn't work. That's despite him having been coaching in the NBA for 20 years. That's despite him being one of the architect's behind the Utah Jazz offensive system and the (re)emergence of Rubio and Spider Mitchell. Just because he found success over a summer in the Euroleague doesn't mean his brand of basketball is European and doesn't work. I mean seriously, posters are just throwing in the fact that he's not actually American as a reason why it's not working.

It's fine to criticize him for his substitutions, his insistence on playing non-NBA player and he has to take at least some blame for our current W/L record but honestly, some of the rhetoric on here is getting real xenophobic

The funny thing about that, is that Doncic is not here because of that alpha dogs have to be like Ayton, big strong, can dunk easily, good luck Phoenix, you waste your chance of not being the new Sacramento Kings.ENJOY

Fire KOKO and bring Mark Jackson , such a Phoenix move. Bring back the passion, effort with a preacher, X & O, advance stats are useless, ISO play for everyone, the championship is coming!!!!

Watch on YouTube

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Predictably, Julius Randle killed us. I'm all for giving him a huge contract next summer.

[Paul/Wall/Dinwiddie/Walker/Collison/Evans/Beverley/Dragic/Brogdon/Wright/Rubio]
Booker
Warren
Randle
Ayton

Yes sir.

[Calvin Klein]

Posters have legit said that the players couldn't understand his "broken" English. They've said his "euro" brand of basketball doesn't work. That's despite him having been coaching in the NBA for 20 years. That's despite him being one of the architect's behind the Utah Jazz offensive system and the (re)emergence of Rubio and Spider Mitchell. Just because he found success over a summer in the Euroleague doesn't mean his brand of basketball is European and doesn't work. I mean seriously, posters are just throwing in the fact that he's not actually American as a reason why it's not working.

It's fine to criticize him for his substitutions, his insistence on playing non-NBA player and he has to take at least some blame for our current W/L record but honestly, some of the rhetoric on here is getting real xenophobic

Thanks. This is exactly what I meant.