Sarver Threatens to Move Suns to Vegas or Seattle

[Scutt]

There are 200 plus events held at that arena every year and only 40 something of those are Suns games and Suns related events, just think about that. Now consider that the Suns are willing to pay for 1/3 of the renovation cost on the city owned stadium. Can someone explain why residents and Suns fans specifically would have any objections? Is it just ignorant and uniformed people that see it as the city giving Sarver 150 million, which is totally asinine? This is simply a case of the city needing to properly maintain their property.

[RaisingArizona]

Let the squeaky man pay! It should be a 50/50 split at least. For those sympathizing with the devil, he's tripled his investment on the Suns. He can open up his checkbook.

[DoItALL9]

Are the other users of Talking Stick Arena contributing?

Sent from my LG-H872 using RealGM mobile app

[DoItALL9]

I assume Sarver's contribution counts as the Suns & Mercury's portion.

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[TheLogician]

Are the other users of Talking Stick Arena contributing?

Sent from my LG-H872 using RealGM mobile app

There really aren't any other users except for one-off events. The ice quality was too poor for hockey (plus obstructed views) so Coyotes moved out a long time ago.

[bwgood77]

Let the squeaky man pay! It should be a 50/50 split at least. For those sympathizing with the devil, he's tripled his investment on the Suns. He can open up his checkbook.

When a team's value goes up, it doesn't make you cash rich. I mean unless he sold small pieces of ownership or something. $80 million is pretty substantial for him. It's not like he's a multi billionaire or even billionaire like a number of owners...unless you just take the team's value and lump it on top of his net worth as listed..his most recent net worth is listed at $400 million...which was about what he purchased the team for, but he had to take out a loan to purchase it as well.

[TeamTragic]

That 150 million is not an investment in Sarver or the Suns, it is an investment in the multi purpose stadium that is owned by the city of Phoenix. Why is that so hard for you and others to understand? Seriously, alot of you need to stop letting your emotional hate for Robert Sarver cloud your judgement on this situation. His ownership and current state of the franchise have no bearing on the argument. The arena needs renevations, regardless of who the occupents are, and it is on the city to get them done.

Sarver doesn't deserve a renovated stadium. The city clearly agrees and will not invest money. I highly doubt Scottsdale will deal with this clown given his penny pinching.

The new ownership group will make that call and perhaps they can get approval for a new stadium. If not then they will have to move the team.

It's the city's stadium. It's like owning a building and your tenants want tenant improvements because it's the worst building of it's type and the owner says "nope". The city is being cheaper than Sarver here.

I mean most tenants would leave a situation like that. I certainly would if I was renting a place and it wasn't up to standard of typical similar buildings. The city is really being a little stupid not agreeing to it, especially since the tenant is putting in a third of proposed costs, the arena brings revenue to the city and surrounding businesses, and if tenant moved out (regardless of how much the city council and new major care about sports teams) then they'd have an empty worthless arena that would barely make any money, only from maybe concerts, soccer teams, wnba, or whoever else plays there...monster truck rallies.

Then why doesn't Sarver move to the magical arena that exists in his head. At some point you have to say enough is enough and both parties should go their separate ways.

Nobody wants Sarver running this team except for Sarver. BTW a lease can be broken through mediation/etc.

[TheLogician]

Let the squeaky man pay! It should be a 50/50 split at least. For those sympathizing with the devil, he's tripled his investment on the Suns. He can open up his checkbook.

When a team's value goes up, it doesn't make you cash rich. I mean unless he sold small pieces of ownership or something. $80 million is pretty substantial for him. It's not like he's a multi billionaire or even billionaire like a number of owners...unless you just take the team's value and lump it on top of his net worth as listed..his most recent net worth is listed at $400 million...which was about what he purchased the team for, but he had to take out a loan to purchase it as well.

Nothing stopping him from taking out a 18 year loan like the city is preparing to do. He could buy the land from the city. The building shouldn't cost much.

[bwgood77]

Sarver doesn't deserve a renovated stadium. The city clearly agrees and will not invest money. I highly doubt Scottsdale will deal with this clown given his penny pinching.

The new ownership group will make that call and perhaps they can get approval for a new stadium. If not then they will have to move the team.

It's the city's stadium. It's like owning a building and your tenants want tenant improvements because it's the worst building of it's type and the owner says "nope". The city is being cheaper than Sarver here.

I mean most tenants would leave a situation like that. I certainly would if I was renting a place and it wasn't up to standard of typical similar buildings. The city is really being a little stupid not agreeing to it, especially since the tenant is putting in a third of proposed costs, the arena brings revenue to the city and surrounding businesses, and if tenant moved out (regardless of how much the city council and new major care about sports teams) then they'd have an empty worthless arena that would barely make any money, only from maybe concerts, soccer teams, wnba, or whoever else plays there...monster truck rallies.

Then why doesn't Sarver move to the magical arena that exists in his head. At some point you have to say enough is enough and both parties should go their separate ways.

Nobody wants Sarver running this team except for Sarver. BTW a lease can be broken through mediation/etc.

Well he should move if they won't renovate. Hopefully somewhere else in Maricopa County, but to a place willing to lease him an NBA caliber arena. If they reject it and nowhere else works out some sort of deal for AZ, I won't be surprised if he moves elsewhere to a city willing to do it. Especially if it's a place the owners would like to see a team move to. The team was working at an operating loss before revenue sharing last year, so really doesn't make much money, so it's not like he's making bank from the Suns.

[bwgood77]

Let the squeaky man pay! It should be a 50/50 split at least. For those sympathizing with the devil, he's tripled his investment on the Suns. He can open up his checkbook.

When a team's value goes up, it doesn't make you cash rich. I mean unless he sold small pieces of ownership or something. $80 million is pretty substantial for him. It's not like he's a multi billionaire or even billionaire like a number of owners...unless you just take the team's value and lump it on top of his net worth as listed..his most recent net worth is listed at $400 million...which was about what he purchased the team for, but he had to take out a loan to purchase it as well.

Nothing stopping him from taking out a 18 year loan like the city is preparing to do. He could buy the land from the city. The building shouldn't cost much.

Why would he buy a crappy arena?

[TheLogician]

When a team's value goes up, it doesn't make you cash rich. I mean unless he sold small pieces of ownership or something. $80 million is pretty substantial for him. It's not like he's a multi billionaire or even billionaire like a number of owners...unless you just take the team's value and lump it on top of his net worth as listed..his most recent net worth is listed at $400 million...which was about what he purchased the team for, but he had to take out a loan to purchase it as well.

Nothing stopping him from taking out a 18 year loan like the city is preparing to do. He could buy the land from the city. The building shouldn't cost much.

Why would he buy a crappy arena?

He would buy to rebuild. Won't happen, just saying what should happen.

[JDLAW]

Sarver is awfully nice to people who run in his circle. He's a jerk, on a personal level, to many people who aren't.

Really? You've met him and he was a jerk to you or are you just generalizing to spout some additional hate for him as a person?

As a season ticket holder, I am not happy about the quality of the team and I am not happy about the half-empty arena. But personal animus toward a person I don't know is really pointless. At least I have the ability to separate my disappointment with his stewardship of the team over the past several years from him personally and his rights as a tenant of the arena.

Sounds like you don't have a whole lot, if anything, vested in this team from a fan's perspective. I'd even bet straight even money that all those season tickets are for is to be "seen" - being more concerned about arena appearances (attendance) over the product being put out on its floor or the organization responsible for it.

As a Suns fan for 38 years (and counting), a smug, lecturing, pompous ass like yourself makes me want to vomit. Actions speak louder than words and people are going to feel what they feel whether you like it or not.

Don't you dare tell me about your credentials as a fan. I have been a Suns fan since day one of the franchise - I went to the very first game (exhibition) game they played against the then San Diego Rockets. I have been a season ticket holder (sometimes shares sometimes buy my self) for the past 20 years interrupted only for the 2016-17 season when I took time out to have a lung transplant. In fact I watched them play (and lose) from my hospital bed hours before going in for surgery. I have lived and breathes Suns Basketball nearly all my life and I put my hard owned cash out to support this team. I am not at all concerned about being seen at the arena because the only people I know there are my guests and the my ticket reps who I see there on occasion.

There you go - I am too old and too big a fan to change my ways. I sincerely hope you don't choke too hard on the frequent vomiting you will have to do.

[JDLAW]

Let the squeaky man pay! It should be a 50/50 split at least. For those sympathizing with the devil, he's tripled his investment on the Suns. He can open up his checkbook.

When a team's value goes up, it doesn't make you cash rich. I mean unless he sold small pieces of ownership or something. $80 million is pretty substantial for him. It's not like he's a multi billionaire or even billionaire like a number of owners...unless you just take the team's value and lump it on top of his net worth as listed..his most recent net worth is listed at $400 million...which was about what he purchased the team for, but he had to take out a loan to purchase it as well.

Nothing stopping him from taking out a 18 year loan like the city is preparing to do. He could buy the land from the city. The building shouldn't cost much.

I would think that is exactly what the Suns partners will do with their share of the upgrade. They will issue bonds or obtain a commercial loan. They might also finance some of their contribution (whatever that % might be) capital call from the partnership group that owns the Suns. You need to understand that Sarver is the managing general partner and not the sole owner. BW is correct in that the ownership appreciation does not necessarily translate to available cash and certainly not at the levels being discussed. The fact that the city of Phoenix is not flush with cash and it also has to deal with the D-backs facility needing significant repair and the revenue source it had for that has run out complicates the city's financing picture.

[SwingMan1938]

Really? You've met him and he was a jerk to you or are you just generalizing to spout some additional hate for him as a person?

As a season ticket holder, I am not happy about the quality of the team and I am not happy about the half-empty arena. But personal animus toward a person I don't know is really pointless. At least I have the ability to separate my disappointment with his stewardship of the team over the past several years from him personally and his rights as a tenant of the arena.

Sounds like you don't have a whole lot, if anything, vested in this team from a fan's perspective. I'd even bet straight even money that all those season tickets are for is to be "seen" - being more concerned about arena appearances (attendance) over the product being put out on its floor or the organization responsible for it.

As a Suns fan for 38 years (and counting), a smug, lecturing, pompous ass like yourself makes me want to vomit. Actions speak louder than words and people are going to feel what they feel whether you like it or not.

Don't you dare tell me about your credentials as a fan. I have been a Suns fan since day one of the franchise - I went to the very first game (exhibition) game they played against the then San Diego Rockets. I have been a season ticket holder (sometimes shares sometimes buy my self) for the past 20 years interrupted only for the 2016-17 season when I took time out to have a lung transplant. In fact I watched them play (and lose) from my hospital bed hours before going in for surgery. I have lived and breathes Suns Basketball nearly all my life and I put my hard owned cash out to support this team. I am not at all concerned about being seen at the arena because the only people I know there are my guests and the my ticket reps who I see there on occasion.

There you go - I am too old and too big a fan to change my ways. I sincerely hope you don't choke too hard on the frequent vomiting you will have to do.

Wow, such anger - makes me grateful that I live a happier, more fulfilling life.

Being a fan since day 1, one would think you'd have a better grasp on what the team was like under competent ownership and to know the difference between good and bad MO's - you obviously prove that there are glaring exceptions to every rule.

Chill out and quit telling people it's raining when you're pissing on their leg.....

[TeamTragic]

Are the other users of Talking Stick Arena contributing?

Sent from my LG-H872 using RealGM mobile app

There really aren't any other users except for one-off events. The ice quality was too poor for hockey (plus obstructed views) so Coyotes moved out a long time ago.

Which is exactly why the squeaky man should open up his checkbook and build a new stadium.

[lilfishi22]

Sounds like you don't have a whole lot, if anything, vested in this team from a fan's perspective. I'd even bet straight even money that all those season tickets are for is to be "seen" - being more concerned about arena appearances (attendance) over the product being put out on its floor or the organization responsible for it.

As a Suns fan for 38 years (and counting), a smug, lecturing, pompous ass like yourself makes me want to vomit. Actions speak louder than words and people are going to feel what they feel whether you like it or not.

Don't you dare tell me about your credentials as a fan. I have been a Suns fan since day one of the franchise - I went to the very first game (exhibition) game they played against the then San Diego Rockets. I have been a season ticket holder (sometimes shares sometimes buy my self) for the past 20 years interrupted only for the 2016-17 season when I took time out to have a lung transplant. In fact I watched them play (and lose) from my hospital bed hours before going in for surgery. I have lived and breathes Suns Basketball nearly all my life and I put my hard owned cash out to support this team. I am not at all concerned about being seen at the arena because the only people I know there are my guests and the my ticket reps who I see there on occasion.

There you go - I am too old and too big a fan to change my ways. I sincerely hope you don't choke too hard on the frequent vomiting you will have to do.

Wow, such anger - makes me grateful that I live a happier, more fulfilling life.

Being a fan since day 1, one would think you'd have a better grasp on what the team was like under competent ownership and to know the difference between good and bad MO's - you obviously prove that there are glaring exceptions to every rule.

Chill out and quit telling people it's raining when you're pissing on their leg.....

Personal attacks won't be tolerated on this board

You can't call the guy angry and tell him to chill when you're the one using personal attacks and you don't know a thing about JDLAW. Keep it civil

[WeekapaugGroove]

When a team's value goes up, it doesn't make you cash rich. I mean unless he sold small pieces of ownership or something. $80 million is pretty substantial for him. It's not like he's a multi billionaire or even billionaire like a number of owners...unless you just take the team's value and lump it on top of his net worth as listed..his most recent net worth is listed at $400 million...which was about what he purchased the team for, but he had to take out a loan to purchase it as well.

Nothing stopping him from taking out a 18 year loan like the city is preparing to do. He could buy the land from the city. The building shouldn't cost much.

I would think that is exactly what the Suns partners will do with their share of the upgrade. They will issue bonds or obtain a commercial loan. They might also finance some of their contribution (whatever that % might be) capital call from the partnership group that owns the Suns. You need to understand that Sarver is the managing general partner and not the sole owner. BW is correct in that the ownership appreciation does not necessarily translate to available cash and certainly not at the levels being discussed. The fact that the city of Phoenix is not flush with cash and it also has to deal with the D-backs facility needing significant repair and the revenue source it had for that has run out complicates the city's financing picture.

With how much money is now generated from TV vs at the gate I think all sports leagues should have a fund in place to issue the bonds for facilities. The source revenue brought in has shifted so much over the past 30 years and it's only going to continue to shift that direction these leagues need to start looking at all this with a new view point.

Back in the old days the league was dependent on ticket sales for so much of their profit and that required people to come to the game and by doing so it generated money for the city in sales taxes and things like that. Well now the league is making most of their money off of media and those people are spread out all over and the city isn't getting any additional cut. Basically the cities benefit of having a team has remained flat or even declined as attendance has but the teams overall cash flow has greatly increased. This has been awesome for the players as salaries have increased a ton and it's also been great for owners in their franchise values has increased but that third part of the partnership isn't getting much of a boost (the state gets some added benefit by with increased income tax on the player salaries).

[SwingMan1938]

Don't you dare tell me about your credentials as a fan. I have been a Suns fan since day one of the franchise - I went to the very first game (exhibition) game they played against the then San Diego Rockets. I have been a season ticket holder (sometimes shares sometimes buy my self) for the past 20 years interrupted only for the 2016-17 season when I took time out to have a lung transplant. In fact I watched them play (and lose) from my hospital bed hours before going in for surgery. I have lived and breathes Suns Basketball nearly all my life and I put my hard owned cash out to support this team. I am not at all concerned about being seen at the arena because the only people I know there are my guests and the my ticket reps who I see there on occasion.

There you go - I am too old and too big a fan to change my ways. I sincerely hope you don't choke too hard on the frequent vomiting you will have to do.

Wow, such anger - makes me grateful that I live a happier, more fulfilling life.

Being a fan since day 1, one would think you'd have a better grasp on what the team was like under competent ownership and to know the difference between good and bad MO's - you obviously prove that there are glaring exceptions to every rule.

Chill out and quit telling people it's raining when you're pissing on their leg.....

Personal attacks won't be tolerated on this board

You can't call the guy angry and tell him to chill when you're the one using personal attacks and you don't know a thing about JDLAW. Keep it civil

You're right, I don't know a thing about 'JDLAW' nor does he concerning me - I go strictly by what I see and what I saw was JDLAW putting others down and lecturing them simply for having a different viewpoint than him. He was rude, pompous, arrogant and smug in his replies and I called him out on it.

But, whatever - I've said my piece (actually said it a few days back in this thread and he chose to reply earlier today, hence my post above) and I'm done wasting time on the issue. My apologies for my own part in this.