Game 63: New Orleans Pelicans (27-36) @ Phoenix Suns (12-50) - 9:00 PM ET

[bwgood77]

We're getting torched from 3 tonight jesus

Yeah, that's really the only reason we are getting beaten. We are overall shooting a little better from 3 than usual, despite Book and Oubre being 2/13 from 3, but they are at 60%.

If they just would have shot their normal % from 3 we would have won.

[darealjuice]

He’s so bad. Suns should look to trade him in the offseason, that’s how bad it is. I don’t have confidence it will get better.


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You couldn't have expected him to fix his defense in one season. It's gotten a lot better than it was last year, against much tougher competition.

I mean I was worried about taking him for this very reason but those that wanted him..I'm not sure how much they could have reasonably expected him to improve this quickly.

How? Many games the Suns have been down so much heading into the 3rd or 4th that the opponent can rest their starters which would explain why opponent scoring could be down. Numbers are lying to you if you think Ayton has improved this team defensively. Len was a much better defensive presence.

He's talking about Ayton's defense being better than last year at Arizona against better competition.

[Jdiddy701]

Ayton with the matador defense again.

He’s so bad. Suns should look to trade him in the offseason, that’s how bad it is. I don’t have confidence it will get better.


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You couldn't have expected him to fix this defense in one season. It's gotten a lot better than it was last year, against much tougher competition.

I mean I was worried about taking him for this very reason but those that wanted him..I'm not sure how much they could have reasonably expected him to improve this quickly.

I don’t expect him to be a good defender, I expect him to at least try. Igor hasn’t got that from him. That’s the issue.


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[bwgood77]

You couldn't have expected him to fix his defense in one season. It's gotten a lot better than it was last year, against much tougher competition.

I mean I was worried about taking him for this very reason but those that wanted him..I'm not sure how much they could have reasonably expected him to improve this quickly.

How? Many games the Suns have been down so much heading into the 3rd or 4th that the opponent can rest their starters which would explain why opponent scoring could be down. Numbers are lying to you if you think Ayton has improved this team defensively. Len was a much better defensive presence.

He's talking about Ayton's defense being better than last year at Arizona against better competition.

Yeah, of course the Suns defense in the middle was better last year with Chandler and Len. I mean we drafted Ayton knowing he was a poor defender...and he's improved this year. He's still lost sometimes and lets people blow past him on occasion but tonight he was diving on the ground, had 3 steals, etc...not stuff I was or am used to seeing from him.

I know it's at a more important position defensively, but I don't know why there is constant whining about Ayton's D as a rookie when others like Booker who are far worse get free passes on that side.

I mean, I get complaining about Ayton's D, and I have, but we took him knowing he would have to improve and he has...his DFG% within 6ft has dropped from over 70 to below mid 50s....I posted such a graphic.

[bwgood77]

He’s so bad. Suns should look to trade him in the offseason, that’s how bad it is. I don’t have confidence it will get better.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You couldn't have expected him to fix this defense in one season. It's gotten a lot better than it was last year, against much tougher competition.

I mean I was worried about taking him for this very reason but those that wanted him..I'm not sure how much they could have reasonably expected him to improve this quickly.

I don’t expect him to be a good defender, I expect him to at least try. Igor hasn’t got that from him. That’s the issue.


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He's improved immensely. He had 3 steals tonight..dove on the floor. The defense was much better with him on the floor tonight. It's not like he's Booker out there on that side.

[RaisingArizona]

You couldn't have expected him to fix his defense in one season. It's gotten a lot better than it was last year, against much tougher competition.

I mean I was worried about taking him for this very reason but those that wanted him..I'm not sure how much they could have reasonably expected him to improve this quickly.

How? Many games the Suns have been down so much heading into the 3rd or 4th that the opponent can rest their starters which would explain why opponent scoring could be down. Numbers are lying to you if you think Ayton has improved this team defensively. Len was a much better defensive presence.

He's talking about Ayton's defense being better than last year at Arizona against better competition.

Oh, my bad. I read that wrong. So this is his new improved Ayton on defense? Was the other center at AZ the anchor then?

[bwgood77]

How? Many games the Suns have been down so much heading into the 3rd or 4th that the opponent can rest their starters which would explain why opponent scoring could be down. Numbers are lying to you if you think Ayton has improved this team defensively. Len was a much better defensive presence.

He's talking about Ayton's defense being better than last year at Arizona against better competition.

Oh, my bad. I read that wrong. So this is his new improved Ayton on defense? Was the other center at AZ the anchor then?

They didn't even have an anchor, though they used two bigs. That's why a small school like Buffalo crushed them in the tourney...they just drove in for layups all game while Ayton watched. I mean I understood that he had immense tools/physical upside but his effort and defensive iq made me feel really queasy about the prospect of drafting him. I really wanted Doncic but had a hard time putting him ahead of JJJ and Trae too...those 3 were all very close in my mind.

[Damkac]

Didn't watched the game thankfully. Oubre with 22 shots, Ayton with 11. Yeah, all I need to know.

[Revived]

Watch on YouTube

[Saberestar]

How? Many games the Suns have been down so much heading into the 3rd or 4th that the opponent can rest their starters which would explain why opponent scoring could be down. Numbers are lying to you if you think Ayton has improved this team defensively. Len was a much better defensive presence.

He's talking about Ayton's defense being better than last year at Arizona against better competition.

Yeah, of course the Suns defense in the middle was better last year with Chandler and Len. I mean we drafted Ayton knowing he was a poor defender...and he's improved this year. He's still lost sometimes and lets people blow past him on occasion but tonight he was diving on the ground, had 3 steals, etc...not stuff I was or am used to seeing from him.

I know it's at a more important position defensively, but I don't know why there is constant whining about Ayton's D as a rookie when others like Booker who are far worse get free passes on that side.

I mean, I get complaining about Ayton's D, and I have, but we took him knowing he would have to improve and he has...his DFG% within 6ft has dropped from over 70 to below mid 50s....I posted such a graphic.

Ayton is not a factor at all in the games.

He has not improved during the season, and if he has improved something is just a bit.

We made a mistake taken him with the #1 pick. Big time mistake. We need to accept that and move on. But IMO better to move on without him.

I would like to try to trade him during the summer because his basketball IQ and intangibles are pretty bad. Those things are really difficult to change.

Right now I think he is getting closer to Okafor or Monroe than Embiid or Ewing. Pretty clear to me.

[Saberestar]

Didn't watched the game thankfully. Oubre with 22 shots, Ayton with 11. Yeah, all I need to know.

The problem is that Ayton can not create for himself or for others. He is just a finisher and not a physical one, he avoids contact.

He needs to learn to dribble the ball. Looking at him play you would think that is not allowed to put the ball on the floor in the game, it is even strange.

[sunsbg]

Didn't watched the game thankfully. Oubre with 22 shots, Ayton with 11. Yeah, all I need to know.

The problem is that Ayton can not create for himself or for others. He is just a finisher and not a physical one, he avoids contact.

He needs to learn to dribble the ball. Looking at him play you would think that is not allowed to put the ball on the floor in the game, it is even strange.

Can you please give an example of a 7 footer, who is doing it ? Davis ? He was a guard growing up and has very good agility, Ayton doesn't.

Deandre has shown some good post moves and touch around the basket. Even as "just a finisher" he could be very valuable in the right offense, which obviously is not what this team is running.

[Saberestar]

Didn't watched the game thankfully. Oubre with 22 shots, Ayton with 11. Yeah, all I need to know.

The problem is that Ayton can not create for himself or for others. He is just a finisher and not a physical one, he avoids contact.

He needs to learn to dribble the ball. Looking at him play you would think that is not allowed to put the ball on the floor in the game, it is even strange.

Can you please give an example of a 7 footer, who is doing it ? Davis ? He was a guard growing up and has very good agility, Ayton doesn't.

Deandre has shown some good post moves and touch around the basket. Even as "just a finisher" he could be very valuable in the right offense, which obviously is not what this team is running.

He doesn't need to be a great ball handler like Davis, he just needs to know how to put the ball on the floor to get to the rim from the high post or the elbow. Embiid, Jokic, Towns...all of them are great at that.

Amare was not a good ball handler at all, but he knew how to make a couple of dribbles to go to the rim or force a secondary defender to help. It's a must for Ayton to learn that.

Ayton can't take advantage of his agility/quickness against slower Cs because of that. He can not make any move facing the rim, he only shoots or pass outside, defense are aware of his limitations and it's easy to defend him.

[Jwetz83]

Wow if you watch the highlights, all of the Pelicans’ plays came as a result of the Suns lack of hustle.

Ayton needs a lot of work. Jogging back in transition defense , not finding his man in transition, allowing people to attack the run without even trying to help.

My question is this:

1. Do we ever think he becomes a defensive presence ??

If not

2. Why not move him to the four and bring in a defensive minded big man.

[DroughtsOverPHX]

This passing and screening at the top of the 3pt line **** is getting old

And though it has been ineffective, they keep running with it, illustrating nicely the definition of insanity. It has led to the times are countless where all of our offense is out at the 3 point line as someone is chucking and seemingly nobody with the thought to get a rebound. The second Ayton goes out to set the screen, teams know he will not even look at the basket out there (he's Holmes) and the plan is to roll to the middle where the other teams big guys are waiting for Booker to lob an ill-advised pass. I think running that play with a quality point guard yields about the same.

[sunsbg]

The problem is that Ayton can not create for himself or for others. He is just a finisher and not a physical one, he avoids contact.

He needs to learn to dribble the ball. Looking at him play you would think that is not allowed to put the ball on the floor in the game, it is even strange.

Can you please give an example of a 7 footer, who is doing it ? Davis ? He was a guard growing up and has very good agility, Ayton doesn't.

Deandre has shown some good post moves and touch around the basket. Even as "just a finisher" he could be very valuable in the right offense, which obviously is not what this team is running.

He doesn't need to be a great ball handler like Davis, he just needs to know how to put the ball on the floor to get to the rim from the high post or the elbow. Embiid, Jokic, Towns...all of them are great at that.

Amare was not a good ball handler at all, but he knew how to make a couple of dribbles to go to the rim or force a secondary defender to help. It's a must for Ayton to learn that.

Ayton can't take advantage of his agility/quickness against slower Cs because of that. He can not make any move facing the rim, he only shoots or pass outside, defense are aware of his limitations and it's easy to defend him.

Those guys are mostly making their way to the post being stronger, then being more advanced ball-handlers than DA at this point of his careers. He certainly should improve every aspect of his game, but I don't expect from him to become an "advanced dribbler". There is nothing wrong with shooting the mid-range jumper or a simple post move to score efficiently. For example the play where he set a screen for Booker, he passed to the wing, who fed Ayton in the post for the easy basket(15:6 Suns, can't find it in the Youtube video) is a perfect example what this team should run to perfection in the future. The PR with Booker should have improved after 60 games, but it's still a turnover waiting to happen. In general asking someone to not play to his strengths is a recipe for failure. All coaching issues IMO.

[Years90Suns]

Loooooong time without posting here.
Everything is so tiring.
The ownership seems to do things just to avoid the criticism of the people.
The GM seems to do trades just for doing them.
Then the coach seems not to get the best of his players.
Then the players, except a couple of them, seems not to put all the effort.