Game 30: Denver Nuggets (19-9) @ Phoenix Suns (11-1), Mon, Dec 23, 7pm MST

[BobbieL]

Rubio's first year with them, Utah Jazz start out 19-28...9 games below 500 after 47 games, while missing their starting C for 26 of those games....here we are 9 games below 500 after only 30 games, Rubio in his first year with us, starting C out 28 of those games. They finish with 48 wins and the 5 seed, tied for the 4th seed, 1 game back of 3 seed, and take out the Thunder in round 1 in 6.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/UTA/2018_games.html

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/goberru01/gamelog/2018

I see the improvement in the team. I truly do. And though last night, the SAS game, the Portland game are tough losses - they are also much better than getting blown out like Friday in OKC. And I say that for this Suns team. The Suns need to be in close games. They need to get punched in the gut. The "other side of hard" is a tough way. But I have been following the NBA a long time - and teams have to get punched in the gut to learn how to win.

They key is getting Ayton back - and seeing what they can do for the next 20 games.

[denial]

I hated this game and I hate this streak. But people are overreacting and not being too logical.
You think Devin Booker can't shoot a basketball? Cmon man.. he is obviously not 100%.
You haven't liked Ayton's game this season? He has played two games.
You are jaded on our luck with injuries and such this season and think we're cursed? Devin has played in 85% of games since he got here. Ayton has played in 87% of games he has been eligible for. Rubio has played too long for me to do all the math. But besides 2014 when he missed most of the season, he averages about 70 games per season.

We've simply had some bad luck with injuries and rules.

When our team is healthy and firing on all cylinders, we will not only be as good as we were to start the year, we will be better, having gone through adversity.

Suns for 40 wins. We will come back healthy and rip off a 9 game winning streak.

[denial]

Has Rubio's defense declined since the beginning of the year? I know he has been scoring much more lately but I can't seem to remember him impacting the defense much lately.

[KLEON]

I remember pre draft in a discussion about PGs, Kerrsed kinda had a very detailed post about almost all the PG prospects and I remember saying how I wanted nothing to do with Jerome cause he looked super non athletic in college.

Players who look unathletic in college seldom gain athleticism when playing in the pros.

I hate to say it but I don’t even think Jerome can play overseas or in China. He looks like guys that play at my gym who can hoop at that level but they don’t have any ambitions of playing basketball professionally.

Sucks but Ty Jerome will working a regular 9-5 job after his current contracts ends. On the plus side, thanks to James Jones he’s gonna have $4M after taxes and agent fees to work with when he enters the regular workforce.

Harsh but for me I wouldn't give up on him after only 1 season. This guy was so sharp in the preseason to the point where he reminded me of a mixture of Nash and Manu. Then he got that calf injury that kept him out for awhile which I believe dented his confidence. Again I wouldn't give up on him after only 1 season. He needs to go to the G League to get his mojo back

[Saberestar]

Rubio's first year with them, Utah Jazz start out 19-28...9 games below 500 after 47 games, while missing their starting C for 26 of those games....here we are 9 games below 500 after only 30 games, Rubio in his first year with us, starting C out 28 of those games. They finish with 48 wins and the 5 seed, tied for the 4th seed, 1 game back of 3 seed, and take out the Thunder in round 1 in 6.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/UTA/2018_games.html

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/goberru01/gamelog/2018

I love positivity, but are you comparing Rudy Gobert with Ayton?? Gobert is a two time Defensive Player of the Year, he is a big game changer. Ayton's impact is not on that level...probably/hopefully in the future.

[bwgood77]

Rubio's first year with them, Utah Jazz start out 19-28...9 games below 500 after 47 games, while missing their starting C for 26 of those games....here we are 9 games below 500 after only 30 games, Rubio in his first year with us, starting C out 28 of those games. They finish with 48 wins and the 5 seed, tied for the 4th seed, 1 game back of 3 seed, and take out the Thunder in round 1 in 6.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/UTA/2018_games.html

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/goberru01/gamelog/2018

I love positivity, but are you comparing Rudy Gobert with Ayton?? Gobert is a two time Defensive Player of the Year, he is a big game changer. Ayton's impact is not on that level...probably/hopefully in the future.

No, but we have played 17 fewer games, missing Ayton for 28 out of 30 and both of our top two centers for 9 out of 30, as well as our PG for like 7 or 8. Plus our schedule gets easier.

We have more games left to make such a turnaround and I don't expect us to get to anywhere like 48 games, but there is not reason to think we can't get near or around 500 if Ayton comes back Friday or shortly thereafter and we stay healthy from there on out.

[Bogyo]

I remember pre draft in a discussion about PGs, Kerrsed kinda had a very detailed post about almost all the PG prospects and I remember saying how I wanted nothing to do with Jerome cause he looked super non athletic in college.

Players who look unathletic in college seldom gain athleticism when playing in the pros.

I hate to say it but I don’t even think Jerome can play overseas or in China. He looks like guys that play at my gym who can hoop at that level but they don’t have any ambitions of playing basketball professionally.

Sucks but Ty Jerome will working a regular 9-5 job after his current contracts ends. On the plus side, thanks to James Jones he’s gonna have $4M after taxes and agent fees to work with when he enters the regular workforce.

Harsh but for me I wouldn't give up on him after only 1 season. This guy was so sharp in the preseason to the point where he reminded me of a mixture of Nash and Manu. Then he got that calf injury that kept him out for awhile which I believe dented his confidence. Again I wouldn't give up on him after only 1 season. He needs to go to the G League to get his mojo back

I'm not sure how he is supposed to get quickness (or more athlecism) in the G League or wherever he goes. It is what it is. His smarts and age got him to be a good player in his last 1-2 years in the NCAA. Those kept him "good" in the preseason against similar type guys who he played against the NCAA (skillwise). When it's gametime against the big boys, he just can't really do it, becouse of it - that is why his confidence is also shot. He can not do anything he used to do, becouse he is always a second too slow - or the defenders are a second faster, whichever is the case. You can't really do anything about that. He can be a good player in the euroleague, and I'm 100% sure he can be a good coach when he retires, as he really seems to understand the game even at his age. But if he wants to make a career as a professional basketball player with his deficies he should go to europe. He can have a nice 5-10 year career, and with this contract and those he'll be over 10 mill before it's all said and done. Not bad for a guy in his early-mid 30s. Rooting for him as he seems like a good guy, with smarts. It's not his fault that his DNA is not cut out for the NBA.

[Saberestar]

Rubio's first year with them, Utah Jazz start out 19-28...9 games below 500 after 47 games, while missing their starting C for 26 of those games....here we are 9 games below 500 after only 30 games, Rubio in his first year with us, starting C out 28 of those games. They finish with 48 wins and the 5 seed, tied for the 4th seed, 1 game back of 3 seed, and take out the Thunder in round 1 in 6.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/UTA/2018_games.html

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/goberru01/gamelog/2018

I love positivity, but are you comparing Rudy Gobert with Ayton?? Gobert is a two time Defensive Player of the Year, he is a big game changer. Ayton's impact is not on that level...probably/hopefully in the future.

No, but we have played 17 fewer games, missing Ayton for 28 out of 30 and both of our top two centers for 9 out of 30, as well as our PG for like 7 or 8. Plus our schedule gets easier.

We have more games left to make such a turnaround and I don't expect us to get to anywhere like 48 games, but there is not reason to think we can't get near or around 500 if Ayton comes back Friday or shortly thereafter and we stay healthy from there on out.

Ok, that's fair.

I projected a 30W-52L season, so for me we are fine. We were TERRIBLE last year, so just to be mediocre is a nice improvement.

If we can get to 38 wins (a bit better than what we are now) that would be great. Nineteen more wins than last year and with a young roster... that would be remarkable.

[Saberestar]

I remember pre draft in a discussion about PGs, Kerrsed kinda had a very detailed post about almost all the PG prospects and I remember saying how I wanted nothing to do with Jerome cause he looked super non athletic in college.

Players who look unathletic in college seldom gain athleticism when playing in the pros.

I hate to say it but I don’t even think Jerome can play overseas or in China. He looks like guys that play at my gym who can hoop at that level but they don’t have any ambitions of playing basketball professionally.

Sucks but Ty Jerome will working a regular 9-5 job after his current contracts ends. On the plus side, thanks to James Jones he’s gonna have $4M after taxes and agent fees to work with when he enters the regular workforce.

Harsh but for me I wouldn't give up on him after only 1 season. This guy was so sharp in the preseason to the point where he reminded me of a mixture of Nash and Manu. Then he got that calf injury that kept him out for awhile which I believe dented his confidence. Again I wouldn't give up on him after only 1 season. He needs to go to the G League to get his mojo back

I'm not sure how he is supposed to get quickness (or more athlecism) in the G League or wherever he goes. It is what it is. His smarts and age got him to be a good player in his last 1-2 years in the NCAA. Those kept him "good" in the preseason against similar type guys who he played against the NCAA (skillwise). When it's gametime against the big boys, he just can't really do it, becouse of it - that is why his confidence is also shot. He can not do anything he used to do, becouse he is always a second too slow - or the defenders are a second faster, whichever is the case. You can't really do anything about that. He can be a good player in the euroleague, and I'm 100% sure he can be a good coach when he retires, as he really seems to understand the game even at his age. But if he wants to make a career as a professional basketball player with his deficies he should go to europe. He can have a nice 5-10 year career, and with this contract and those he'll be over 10 mill before it's all said and done. Not bad for a guy in his early-mid 30s. Rooting for him as he seems like a good guy, with smarts. It's not his fault that his DNA is not cut out for the NBA.

I wouldn't go that far yet, we need to give him AT LEAST the full season to prove himself in the NBA.

I think that he can improve a lot athletically. We are talking about a guy who is 6'5 and 22 years old on his rookie season... and we need to take into account the injury that he had just before the start of the season.

A few days ago he showed against the Rockets that he can score efficiently. 15 points and 3 assists in 22 minutes. I know that he didn't play well defensively but... who playes well on that side of the court against Harden and Westbrook?

I think that his height is gonna give him an opportunity to stay in this league. If he gets stronger he will play more minutes as a SG. He always will be a threat on the court as a 3p shooter and second creator.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Harsh but for me I wouldn't give up on him after only 1 season. This guy was so sharp in the preseason to the point where he reminded me of a mixture of Nash and Manu. Then he got that calf injury that kept him out for awhile which I believe dented his confidence. Again I wouldn't give up on him after only 1 season. He needs to go to the G League to get his mojo back

I'm not sure how he is supposed to get quickness (or more athlecism) in the G League or wherever he goes. It is what it is. His smarts and age got him to be a good player in his last 1-2 years in the NCAA. Those kept him "good" in the preseason against similar type guys who he played against the NCAA (skillwise). When it's gametime against the big boys, he just can't really do it, becouse of it - that is why his confidence is also shot. He can not do anything he used to do, becouse he is always a second too slow - or the defenders are a second faster, whichever is the case. You can't really do anything about that. He can be a good player in the euroleague, and I'm 100% sure he can be a good coach when he retires, as he really seems to understand the game even at his age. But if he wants to make a career as a professional basketball player with his deficies he should go to europe. He can have a nice 5-10 year career, and with this contract and those he'll be over 10 mill before it's all said and done. Not bad for a guy in his early-mid 30s. Rooting for him as he seems like a good guy, with smarts. It's not his fault that his DNA is not cut out for the NBA.

I wouldn't go that far yet, we need to give him AT LEAST the full season to prove himself in the NBA.

I think that he can improve a lot athletically. We are talking about a guy who is 6'5 and 22 years old on his rookie season... and we need to take into account the injury that he had just before the start of the season.

A few days ago he showed against the Rockets that he can score efficiently. 15 points and 3 assists in 22 minutes. I know that he didn't play well defensively but... who playes well on that side of the court against Harden and Westbrook?

I think that his height is gonna give him an opportunity to stay in this league. If he gets stronger he will play more minutes as a SG. He always will be a threat on the court as a 3p shooter and second creator.

Yes, If nothing else, He can commit himself to living in the weight room, getting stronger, maybe he even can become a bit faster possibly too. But really, He's still has a chance to play a role at the highest level in some capacity. This is mainly due to his high IQ, and advanced understanding of the game. And his solid shot mechanics, court vision, etc.

After all, Nash himself wasn't known for his athleticism and speed really. He beat people with his intelligence, craftiness, strong determination and will to win. And that's the primary area that Jerome needs to focus on, IF he intends to play and have a long career in the NBA. But I still have hope for him. Honestly, a coach like Pop or Brad Stevens could probably do wonders for advancing his skillset and confidence.

[Frank Lee]

Just goes to show how unicornish Nash was.

No way should we put those expectations on this kid. He's a whiff for this yr, but not strike three.

[Puff]

Shout out to Bridges,Cam and Carter. Carter was a dog on defense

Early in the season, when we were having success, it was a healthy Baynes and Carter leading the way. I think Carter was the key player in the group against the Nuggets, this is not to take anything away from Bridges and Cam. Somehow Carter has not received any playing time which was given to Okobo and Jerome. Some do not like Carter for some reason, I really like him. He plays his arse off every minute on the court. He would be my sub for Rubio every night, like he was at the start of the season.

However until Booker fixes his shot and Ayton decides to play and he plays like a man possessed (like Carter does), we will struggle to beat anyone.

[LesGrossman]

However until Booker fixes his shot and Ayton decides to play and he plays like a man possessed (like Carter does), we will struggle to beat anyone.

That is just wrong in my opinion. THere have been very very few games in whcih the suns werent competetive. This team despite injury and suspension could run with everyone, including clear title candidates. Its not more and not less than bad luck and lack of experience in closing games. I think we all watch a team grow which is very encouraging. Even if its not yet time for the playoffs (i'm still seeing the chance) its a clear improvement over the recent history.

[Puff]

Btw as someone mentioned, last shot by Booker was an easy pump fake with 2.5 secs left. I hope he learns that for the next.

When has Booker ever made a last second shot?

I like Booker but he is not in the same league as most of the other Max players in this league. He puts up nice shooting numbers when healthy and not much else.

[Puff]

However until Booker fixes his shot and Ayton decides to play and he plays like a man possessed (like Carter does), we will struggle to beat anyone.

That is just wrong in my opinion. THere have been very very few games in whcih the suns werent competetive. This team despite injury and suspension could run with everyone, including clear title candidates. Its not more and not less than bad luck and lack of experience in closing games. I think we all watch a team grow which is very encouraging. Even if its not yet time for the playoffs (i'm still seeing the chance) its a clear improvement over the recent history.

Why were we winning at the beginning of the year?

1. Booker was shooting at an all star rate from everywhere
2. Baynes was healthy, making every shot and playing like a man possessed on both ends of the court.
3. Carter was the key sub off the bench, playing like a man possessed and making shots.

My concern is what Ayton brings when he returns. He certainly has the talent to be better than Baynes but does he have the want. While he was 18 and 12 in his return to the court, I also saw him watching the action on defense. He must play both ends of the court or we will never ever reach our potential.

[LesGrossman]

However until Booker fixes his shot and Ayton decides to play and he plays like a man possessed (like Carter does), we will struggle to beat anyone.

That is just wrong in my opinion. THere have been very very few games in whcih the suns werent competetive. This team despite injury and suspension could run with everyone, including clear title candidates. Its not more and not less than bad luck and lack of experience in closing games. I think we all watch a team grow which is very encouraging. Even if its not yet time for the playoffs (i'm still seeing the chance) its a clear improvement over the recent history.

Why were we winning at the beginning of the year?

1. Booker was shooting at an all star rate from everywhere
2. Baynes was healthy, making every shot and playing like a man possessed on both ends of the court.
3. Carter was the key sub off the bench, playing like a man possessed and making shots.

My concern is what Ayton brings when he returns. He certainly has the talent to be better than Baynes but does he have the want. While he was 18 and 12 in his return to the court, I also saw him watching the action on defense. He must play both ends of the court or we will never ever reach our potential.

I dont know what games you saw. And i didnt talk about the won games only, but rather that the Suns were competetive, many many losses were very close games and could easily have been wins too. In most of those games Carter never stepped on the floor. Baynes was key, i agree. Frank is a power forward and bench player and was asked to step in as a starting center, and did his best to fulfill that role, but couldnt. Booker on the other hand was not exactly great in all of those games. Just look at this game he was terrible and still it came down to some key plays and calls despite that, and despite Baynes not being at full strength.

The problem isnt so much that Booker needs to play outworldly. THis team can succeed with team ball alone. He just needs to provide quality game and Monty has to understand that and get away from this stupid idea that booker needs to close out our games. That alone cost more than one game in this season imho. Had they just continued to play together instead of inexplicably switching to iso booker mode at some point would have resulted in 2-3 more wins, with no games that we wouldn have lost by this modification imho.Its just a wrong assumption that a max player has to be a great closer.

[Revived]

Btw as someone mentioned, last shot by Booker was an easy pump fake with 2.5 secs left. I hope he learns that for the next.

When has Booker ever made a last second shot?

I like Booker but he is not in the same league as most of the other Max players in this league. He puts up nice shooting numbers when healthy and not much else.

He had one against the Mavs a while back. But yeah your point is true.

As inconsistent as he is, I think I’d rather have Oubre taking game winning or game tying shot attempts.

[bwgood77]

Btw as someone mentioned, last shot by Booker was an easy pump fake with 2.5 secs left. I hope he learns that for the next.

When has Booker ever made a last second shot?

I like Booker but he is not in the same league as most of the other Max players in this league. He puts up nice shooting numbers when healthy and not much else.

He had one against the Mavs a while back. But yeah your point is true.

As inconsistent as he is, I think I’d rather have Oubre taking game winning or game tying shot attempts.

Oubre has seemed more clutch lately. I think you just go with the hot hand. Booker had just made a big shot so that was the right call in this game. It was just unfortunate Grant got subbed in and made a great play. If Booker hits that they go into this 3 day break with a lot of confidence, but they kind of should have regardless, given how they played (though Booker and Oubre didn't play well). Oubre usually bounces back big and Booker's wrist should be completely better with time off and he will have it easier as Denver plays him very well trapping and doubling, and most of GS's current guards are not great defenders (Russell, Burks).

[alamin330]

DLo is going to kill Booker. Russell has more heart in his pinky than booker has in his entire soul.