Game 56: Phoenix Suns (22-33) @ Toronto Raptors (40-15)

[LesGrossman]

He’s been really disappointing. It’s okay to call it like it is. He struggles to score on a team that really needs his scoring. He was off to a great start to the season but unfortunately, he got hurt and has not looked good since. I feel like he’s playing with low effort and careless with the ball the last month or so. Tonight he played better. Suns need him to get in a groove.


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Its absolutely ok to call it as it is. But that isnt what happened in this thread, is it? The b1tching and moaning started on min one ("i am done with Rubio") despite dishing out real assists from the start and playing hard defense, while Oubre really screwed the offense up. I agree that if you arent watching basketball long enough you may not understand that it hurts what he does, but guys could just trust more experienced and knowledgeable posters on this.

Wow. I could save myself time reading if I just stuck to your posts. Thank you for that public service. You've had like 3 posts with this flavor. It must be annoying reading analysis that lacks your expertise.

English's not my native language, sorry if this comes by offensive. But its true tho. If you think the best players are the combined candidates of the dunk and 3pt contest (as many people here seem to believe) then you simply lack understanding of the complexity of the game, theres no other way to put this. Guys criticising Rubios heart, defense or IQ are just clueless; as well as guys who talk about him at all, in a game where we get killed by Oubre, AGAIN, and the coach who refuses to actually discipline him. If you can find a more gentle way to formulate this, i'll gladly listen.

[sunsbg]

Its absolutely ok to call it as it is. But that isnt what happened in this thread, is it? The b1tching and moaning started on min one ("i am done with Rubio") despite dishing out real assists from the start and playing hard defense, while Oubre really screwed the offense up. I agree that if you arent watching basketball long enough you may not understand that it hurts what he does, but guys could just trust more experienced and knowledgeable posters on this.

Wow. I could save myself time reading if I just stuck to your posts. Thank you for that public service. You've had like 3 posts with this flavor. It must be annoying reading analysis that lacks your expertise.

English's not my native language, sorry if this comes by offensive. But its true tho. If you think the best players are the combined candidates of the dunk and 3pt contest (as many people here seem to believe) then you simply lack understanding of the complexity of the game, theres no other way to put this. Guys criticising Rubios heart, defense or IQ are just clueless; as well as guys who talk about him at all, in a game where we get killed by Oubre, AGAIN, and the coach who refuses to actually discipline him. If you can find a more gentle way to formulate this, i'll gladly listen.

It's probably not so complex, when you can always put the blame on two players to explain everything.

[LesGrossman]

Wow. I could save myself time reading if I just stuck to your posts. Thank you for that public service. You've had like 3 posts with this flavor. It must be annoying reading analysis that lacks your expertise.

English's not my native language, sorry if this comes by offensive. But its true tho. If you think the best players are the combined candidates of the dunk and 3pt contest (as many people here seem to believe) then you simply lack understanding of the complexity of the game, theres no other way to put this. Guys criticising Rubios heart, defense or IQ are just clueless; as well as guys who talk about him at all, in a game where we get killed by Oubre, AGAIN, and the coach who refuses to actually discipline him. If you can find a more gentle way to formulate this, i'll gladly listen.

It's probably not so complex, when you can always put the blame on two players to explain everything.

Well three guys are getting the vast majority of shots (14, 15 and 18 for Ayton, Oubre and Booker, more than half of the shots the whole team has taken (94)), two of them get the majority of touches once the ball crosses half court, one of them is an allstar according to this board. They get all the praise when things go well, dont they? If you arent sure look at the Nashty threads for reference. Why would they be immune to criticism? I dont understand how guys here focus on guys playing a minor role in all aspects of the game and continue to whine about them (look at all the hate Saric and Kaminsky, Baynes and Rubio received upon the slightest of slumps) whereas the supposed superstars get a pass all the time. Makes no sense to me.

That being said the main culprit is not a player to me it is clearly Monty. Its his job to put a leash on youngsters and he completely fails to do that.

[Kerrsed]

I think the person who had the biggest turnaround this gae was......Ann Myers-Drysdale! Yes, even i cant believe i just typed that! She was quick to point out a-lot of the BS calls and things the Raptors were doing. The constant hand-checking done by Lowery in the 1st half, The fact that he was getting away with **** that was being called against Booker and Rubio because he is an all-star with a defensive reputation and wondering if Booker will start getting those calls soon, Calling out that the Raptors were getting the benefit of a doubt on calls simply because of who they are. It was nice. Even questioned when Nick Nurse was trying to challenge a call but ran out of time, picked up a tech, Booker hit the FT......then the ref's decided to check the play....but yet the Raptors were not charged with that challenge somehow and were able to use it again later on the Elbow to Bookers head (Which totally would have been a flagrant foul against us as we have seen multiple times in the past).

It was hilarious to me that Lowery was pissed because the refs finally blew their whistle when he was laying on top of Jerome. He got heated and thought he did nothing wrong. Of course he thought that, he gets away with that **** all the time! Its part of the game to him, and the reason he does it is because the ref's refuse to call in on him, so they helped create the monster.

Loved Carter in there, and really wished we left him in more. He was bulldogging Lowery and really getting under his skin. There were a few points later in the game i thought Lowery was about to snap because of Carter, but for some reason at that point we pulled Carter out. Should have left him in there, he is a disruptor.

Nurse had a good gameplan which he spoke about pre-game and that was to limit Aytons strengths because they didnt have guys that could match up with him. On defense Ayton was stuck at the top of the key because the man he was guarding (Ibaka) would just stop at the 3 point line as the Raptors brought the ball up, and he would camp there. That made it so where our best defender in the paint wasnt where he needed to be and they would pass the ball to the corner and drive/attack from that angle. We tried to combat this a bit and switched to Zone defense, but thats when they started hitting all those damn 3's.

It is what it is, Raptors are a top team in the league and showed us why. Wasnt expecting to win this game or for it to even be a 6 point game in the 4th. They had our number. Forget this game and on to something winnable against The Bulls.

[sunsbg]

English's not my native language, sorry if this comes by offensive. But its true tho. If you think the best players are the combined candidates of the dunk and 3pt contest (as many people here seem to believe) then you simply lack understanding of the complexity of the game, theres no other way to put this. Guys criticising Rubios heart, defense or IQ are just clueless; as well as guys who talk about him at all, in a game where we get killed by Oubre, AGAIN, and the coach who refuses to actually discipline him. If you can find a more gentle way to formulate this, i'll gladly listen.

It's probably not so complex, when you can always put the blame on two players to explain everything.

Well three guys are getting the vast majority of shots (14, 15 and 18 for Ayton, Oubre and Booker, more than half of the shots the whole team has taken (94)), two of them get the majority of touches once the ball crosses half court, one of them is an allstar according to this board. They get all the praise when things go well, dont they? If you arent sure look at the Nashty threads for reference. Why would they be immune to criticism? I dont understand how guys here focus on guys playing a minor role in all aspects of the game and continue to whine about them (look at all the hate Saric and Kaminsky, Baynes and Rubio received upon the slightest of slumps) whereas the supposed superstars get a pass all the time. Makes no sense to me.

That being said the main culprit is not a player to me it is clearly Monty. Its his job to put a leash on youngsters and he completely fails to do that.

Three of the Raptors' players took also more than half of the shots, so nothing to see there. Everybody on the team has flaws, there is no true superstar to lead the team to wins on his own, Monty is an average coach, and all these injuries killed the chemistry. Indeed, it's much more complicated than putting the blame on any single player.

[LesGrossman]

It's probably not so complex, when you can always put the blame on two players to explain everything.

Well three guys are getting the vast majority of shots (14, 15 and 18 for Ayton, Oubre and Booker, more than half of the shots the whole team has taken (94)), two of them get the majority of touches once the ball crosses half court, one of them is an allstar according to this board. They get all the praise when things go well, dont they? If you arent sure look at the Nashty threads for reference. Why would they be immune to criticism? I dont understand how guys here focus on guys playing a minor role in all aspects of the game and continue to whine about them (look at all the hate Saric and Kaminsky, Baynes and Rubio received upon the slightest of slumps) whereas the supposed superstars get a pass all the time. Makes no sense to me.

That being said the main culprit is not a player to me it is clearly Monty. Its his job to put a leash on youngsters and he completely fails to do that.

Three of the Raptors' players took also more than half of the shots, so nothing to see there. Everybody on the team has flaws, there is no true superstar to lead the team to wins on his own, Monty is an average coach, and all these injuries killed the chemistry. Indeed, it's much more complicated than putting the blame on any single player.

I think you are oversimplifying here. THeres a difference between not being able to do something like shooting, dribbling, dunking, and not being willing to do the right thing even though you may call both a "flaw".

Also i disagree that Monty is an "average coach". I dont even know what that is. Coaching has many facettes from designing the offense and defense to teaching and developing the players in practise to in game adjustments and lineups. All in all i am not convinced that Monty is even average in any of this, and he certainly doesnt excel in any either. To me the coach is a crucial part of success, more than ANY player can be. I am worried about the lack of Monty's own development right now.