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Game 68: Phoenix Suns @ Washington Wizards, Friday 07/31/20, 1:00 PM PT

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Re: Game 68: Phoenix Suns @ Washington Wizards, Friday 07/31/20, 1:00 PM PT 

Post#241 » by ImNotMcDiSwear » Sat Aug 1, 2020 8:29 pm

Jdiddy701 wrote:For anyone wanting us to nitpick Booker before Ayton, the Suns would be the worst team in the league without Booker.


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IDK. I wonder if we couldn't grab a pretty decent 2 guard with the extra $27 million in cap space that would leave us.
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Re: Game 68: Phoenix Suns @ Washington Wizards, Friday 07/31/20, 1:00 PM PT 

Post#242 » by Jdiddy701 » Sat Aug 1, 2020 8:36 pm

ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:
Jdiddy701 wrote:For anyone wanting us to nitpick Booker before Ayton, the Suns would be the worst team in the league without Booker.


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IDK. I wonder if we couldn't grab a pretty decent 2 guard with the extra $27 million in cap space that would leave us.

Sure, if we can find someone who produces near 26pts 6.5asts 4.2rebs with 48.5% FGs. Well, we know no one will be willing to sign in Phoenix so maybe in a trade? Good luck!


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Re: Game 68: Phoenix Suns @ Washington Wizards, Friday 07/31/20, 1:00 PM PT 

Post#243 » by Mr Puddles » Sat Aug 1, 2020 8:36 pm

ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:
Jdiddy701 wrote:For anyone wanting us to nitpick Booker before Ayton, the Suns would be the worst team in the league without Booker.


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IDK. I wonder if we couldn't grab a pretty decent 2 guard with the extra $27 million in cap space that would leave us.


Considering our main free agency signings over the past years have been Tyson Chandler and Trevor ariza, I highly doubt we would have been able to land a player nearly as good as booker with that money.
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Re: Game 68: Phoenix Suns @ Washington Wizards, Friday 07/31/20, 1:00 PM PT 

Post#244 » by starbosa10 » Sat Aug 1, 2020 10:22 pm

SunsLyf3 wrote:Kings losing to Spurs at the moment. . .hoping for Kings loss
Pelicans play Clippers tomorrow
Blazers play Celtics on Sunday
Spurs play Memphis on Sunday
Kings play Orlando on Sunday.

If Pels, Blazers, Spurs and Kings lose their weekend games and we beat Dallas things will get very interesting.


Good start by Clips so far! hope things go our way tomorrow. It's still a long shot but I'd love to see us make it real interesting.
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Re: Game 68: Phoenix Suns @ Washington Wizards, Friday 07/31/20, 1:00 PM PT 

Post#245 » by bwgood77 » Sun Aug 2, 2020 12:41 am

ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:
Jdiddy701 wrote:For anyone wanting us to nitpick Booker before Ayton, the Suns would be the worst team in the league without Booker.


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IDK. I wonder if we couldn't grab a pretty decent 2 guard with the extra $27 million in cap space that would leave us.


Booker is pretty good. As we've learned, you have to really surround him with solid vets and role playing defenders, along with a #1 draft pick big to get to 30 wins. We know he is not a guy that carries a team on his back to the playoffs with a few players...with him as a centerpiece you need to surround him with a lot of talent to get anywhere.
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Re: Game 68: Phoenix Suns @ Washington Wizards, Friday 07/31/20, 1:00 PM PT 

Post#246 » by bwgood77 » Sun Aug 2, 2020 12:42 am

Mr Puddles wrote:
ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:
Jdiddy701 wrote:For anyone wanting us to nitpick Booker before Ayton, the Suns would be the worst team in the league without Booker.


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IDK. I wonder if we couldn't grab a pretty decent 2 guard with the extra $27 million in cap space that would leave us.


Considering our main free agency signings over the past years have been Tyson Chandler and Trevor ariza, I highly doubt we would have been able to land a player nearly as good as booker with that money.


Hey, don't forget about Kaminsky.
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Re: Game 68: Phoenix Suns @ Washington Wizards, Friday 07/31/20, 1:00 PM PT 

Post#247 » by LesGrossman » Sun Aug 2, 2020 12:59 am

Jdiddy701 wrote:For anyone wanting us to nitpick Booker before Ayton, the Suns would be the worst team in the league without Booker.


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This is what happens if you just look at numbers without any context. You must consider Carmelo Anthony the G.O.A.T., right?

Too bad you didnt read or commented to anything written above and just took one point out of context.

Booker deserves all the criticism he deserves. And besides, just saying something without any substance to back it up is not how discussions work: "The suns would be a playoff team if Booker came off the bench." See?
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Re: Game 68: Phoenix Suns @ Washington Wizards, Friday 07/31/20, 1:00 PM PT 

Post#248 » by LesGrossman » Sun Aug 2, 2020 1:03 am

bwgood77 wrote:
ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:
Jdiddy701 wrote:For anyone wanting us to nitpick Booker before Ayton, the Suns would be the worst team in the league without Booker.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


IDK. I wonder if we couldn't grab a pretty decent 2 guard with the extra $27 million in cap space that would leave us.


Booker is pretty good. As we've learned, you have to really surround him with solid vets and role playing defenders, along with a #1 draft pick big to get to 30 wins. We know he is not a guy that carries a team on his back to the playoffs with a few players...with him as a centerpiece you need to surround him with a lot of talent to get anywhere.

Its not about the pieces around him. I said the same when talking about KAT and his absolute refusal to play any defense, and all Wolves fans went berserk and talked about who to bring in to somehow compensate for that. But the truth is, you cant compensate your key guy who plays the most minutes if he doesnt want to play defense. Because you cant take him off when you are playing D. Very similar, you cant surround booker with higher quality players and expect him to somehow understand that his decisions to go iso are just dumb and selfish and cost the team W's. If he starts to dribble backwards he wouldnt pass to Ray Allen, Reggie Miller, Kyle Korver etc.. Because in those moments he wants all the cameras and attention and somehow has tricked himself into believing that he is the greatest player in the world.

Its not the "pieces", its all about the coaching and forcing him to change his mindset.
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Re: Game 68: Phoenix Suns @ Washington Wizards, Friday 07/31/20, 1:00 PM PT 

Post#249 » by Jdiddy701 » Sun Aug 2, 2020 1:11 am

LesGrossman wrote:
Jdiddy701 wrote:For anyone wanting us to nitpick Booker before Ayton, the Suns would be the worst team in the league without Booker.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This is what happens if you just look at numbers without any context. You must consider Carmelo Anthony the G.O.A.T., right?

Too bad you didnt read or commented to anything written above and just took one point out of context.

Booker deserves all the criticism he deserves. And besides, just saying something without any substance to back it up is not how discussions work: "The suns would be a playoff team if Booker came off the bench." See?

I actually cannot stand Carmelo Anthony. I mean no player is perfect but Booker should be the least of our worries. Don’t like to give players a pass but he’s been really efficient this year and am okay with him having a bad shooting day. It doesn’t happen often.


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Re: Game 68: Phoenix Suns @ Washington Wizards, Friday 07/31/20, 1:00 PM PT 

Post#250 » by LesGrossman » Sun Aug 2, 2020 2:07 am

Jdiddy701 wrote:
LesGrossman wrote:
Jdiddy701 wrote:For anyone wanting us to nitpick Booker before Ayton, the Suns would be the worst team in the league without Booker.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This is what happens if you just look at numbers without any context. You must consider Carmelo Anthony the G.O.A.T., right?

Too bad you didnt read or commented to anything written above and just took one point out of context.

Booker deserves all the criticism he deserves. And besides, just saying something without any substance to back it up is not how discussions work: "The suns would be a playoff team if Booker came off the bench." See?

I actually cannot stand Carmelo Anthony. I mean no player is perfect but Booker should be the least of our worries. Don’t like to give players a pass but he’s been really efficient this year and am okay with him having a bad shooting day. It doesn’t happen often.


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Again please read the actual post, try to understand the point being made before commenting. Noone was talking about his bad shooting, it was about his decision making. You cant force a good shooting night, but you can certainly improve your decision making.
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Game 68: Phoenix Suns @ Washington Wizards, Friday 07/31/20, 1:00 PM PT 

Post#251 » by Jdiddy701 » Sun Aug 2, 2020 2:50 am

LesGrossman wrote:
Jdiddy701 wrote:
LesGrossman wrote:This is what happens if you just look at numbers without any context. You must consider Carmelo Anthony the G.O.A.T., right?

Too bad you didnt read or commented to anything written above and just took one point out of context.

Booker deserves all the criticism he deserves. And besides, just saying something without any substance to back it up is not how discussions work: "The suns would be a playoff team if Booker came off the bench." See?

I actually cannot stand Carmelo Anthony. I mean no player is perfect but Booker should be the least of our worries. Don’t like to give players a pass but he’s been really efficient this year and am okay with him having a bad shooting day. It doesn’t happen often.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Again please read the actual post, try to understand the point being made before commenting. Noone was talking about his bad shooting, it was about his decision making. You cant force a good shooting night, but you can certainly improve your decision making.

For the most part, I have no issues with Booker’s decision making. With this team not having a back up PG, you want the ball in his or Rubio’s hands. Booker’s passing and decision making is okay and getting better. He definitely needs to cut down on his turnovers, though. At the same time, most players in the NBA that handle the ball as much as he does typically have a high average for turnovers.

If there’s one thing that bothers me about Booker is his leadership.


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Re: Game 68: Phoenix Suns @ Washington Wizards, Friday 07/31/20, 1:00 PM PT 

Post#252 » by PharmD » Sun Aug 2, 2020 4:09 am

Thread seems awfully negative and defensive given the impressive, easy win. Advice to everyone itt:

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Re: Game 68: Phoenix Suns @ Washington Wizards, Friday 07/31/20, 1:00 PM PT 

Post#253 » by sunsbg » Sun Aug 2, 2020 8:04 am

LesGrossman wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:
IDK. I wonder if we couldn't grab a pretty decent 2 guard with the extra $27 million in cap space that would leave us.


Booker is pretty good. As we've learned, you have to really surround him with solid vets and role playing defenders, along with a #1 draft pick big to get to 30 wins. We know he is not a guy that carries a team on his back to the playoffs with a few players...with him as a centerpiece you need to surround him with a lot of talent to get anywhere.

Its not about the pieces around him. I said the same when talking about KAT and his absolute refusal to play any defense, and all Wolves fans went berserk and talked about who to bring in to somehow compensate for that. But the truth is, you cant compensate your key guy who plays the most minutes if he doesnt want to play defense. Because you cant take him off when you are playing D. Very similar, you cant surround booker with higher quality players and expect him to somehow understand that his decisions to go iso are just dumb and selfish and cost the team W's. If he starts to dribble backwards he wouldnt pass to Ray Allen, Reggie Miller, Kyle Korver etc.. Because in those moments he wants all the cameras and attention and somehow has tricked himself into believing that he is the greatest player in the world.

Its not the "pieces", its all about the coaching and forcing him to change his mindset.


Your defending champions play exclusively an ISO ball. They play defense as well though.
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Re: Game 68: Phoenix Suns @ Washington Wizards, Friday 07/31/20, 1:00 PM PT 

Post#254 » by LesGrossman » Sun Aug 2, 2020 10:31 am

sunsbg wrote:
LesGrossman wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
Booker is pretty good. As we've learned, you have to really surround him with solid vets and role playing defenders, along with a #1 draft pick big to get to 30 wins. We know he is not a guy that carries a team on his back to the playoffs with a few players...with him as a centerpiece you need to surround him with a lot of talent to get anywhere.

Its not about the pieces around him. I said the same when talking about KAT and his absolute refusal to play any defense, and all Wolves fans went berserk and talked about who to bring in to somehow compensate for that. But the truth is, you cant compensate your key guy who plays the most minutes if he doesnt want to play defense. Because you cant take him off when you are playing D. Very similar, you cant surround booker with higher quality players and expect him to somehow understand that his decisions to go iso are just dumb and selfish and cost the team W's. If he starts to dribble backwards he wouldnt pass to Ray Allen, Reggie Miller, Kyle Korver etc.. Because in those moments he wants all the cameras and attention and somehow has tricked himself into believing that he is the greatest player in the world.

Its not the "pieces", its all about the coaching and forcing him to change his mindset.


Your defending champions play exclusively an ISO ball. They play defense as well though.

I'm not saying Iso cant work. I'm saying Booker isnt the guy who can pull it off. He is great at other things, and i want him to focus on those. I'm fine with him scoring 40 every night as long as he plays within the offense and takes good shots. But the moment he stops the flow, doesnt make quick decisions, starts to dribble backwards and wave off screens, because he thinks hes Kobe or MJ, that is not going to work. That is a lost posession because most of the time it will not result in points, and if it does its almost as bad because it encourages him to continue that crap.
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Re: Game 68: Phoenix Suns @ Washington Wizards, Friday 07/31/20, 1:00 PM PT 

Post#255 » by sunsbg » Sun Aug 2, 2020 12:59 pm

LesGrossman wrote:
sunsbg wrote:
LesGrossman wrote:Its not about the pieces around him. I said the same when talking about KAT and his absolute refusal to play any defense, and all Wolves fans went berserk and talked about who to bring in to somehow compensate for that. But the truth is, you cant compensate your key guy who plays the most minutes if he doesnt want to play defense. Because you cant take him off when you are playing D. Very similar, you cant surround booker with higher quality players and expect him to somehow understand that his decisions to go iso are just dumb and selfish and cost the team W's. If he starts to dribble backwards he wouldnt pass to Ray Allen, Reggie Miller, Kyle Korver etc.. Because in those moments he wants all the cameras and attention and somehow has tricked himself into believing that he is the greatest player in the world.

Its not the "pieces", its all about the coaching and forcing him to change his mindset.


Your defending champions play exclusively an ISO ball. They play defense as well though.

I'm not saying Iso cant work. I'm saying Booker isnt the guy who can pull it off. He is great at other things, and i want him to focus on those. I'm fine with him scoring 40 every night as long as he plays within the offense and takes good shots. But the moment he stops the flow, doesnt make quick decisions, starts to dribble backwards and wave off screens, because he thinks hes Kobe or MJ, that is not going to work. That is a lost posession because most of the time it will not result in points, and if it does its almost as bad because it encourages him to continue that crap.


He is not Kobe or MJ, but he's not a worse 1-on-1 player than VanVleet or Lowry either.

That said, I'll like to see him play more like the guys you mentioned above and become a 40%+ 3PT shooter, which he's capable of.
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Re: Game 68: Phoenix Suns @ Washington Wizards, Friday 07/31/20, 1:00 PM PT 

Post#256 » by LesGrossman » Sun Aug 2, 2020 1:32 pm

sunsbg wrote:
LesGrossman wrote:
sunsbg wrote:
Your defending champions play exclusively an ISO ball. They play defense as well though.

I'm not saying Iso cant work. I'm saying Booker isnt the guy who can pull it off. He is great at other things, and i want him to focus on those. I'm fine with him scoring 40 every night as long as he plays within the offense and takes good shots. But the moment he stops the flow, doesnt make quick decisions, starts to dribble backwards and wave off screens, because he thinks hes Kobe or MJ, that is not going to work. That is a lost posession because most of the time it will not result in points, and if it does its almost as bad because it encourages him to continue that crap.


He is not Kobe or MJ, but he's not a worse 1-on-1 player than VanVleet or Lowry either.

That said, I'll like to see him play more like the guys you mentioned above and become a 40%+ 3PT shooter, which he's capable of.

Also if you as the offensive coordinator / HC decide to run iso heavy offense you need to structure your roster accordingly. The Raptors and celtics are built that way. The suns on the other hand are built assist-heavy with guys who play rather disciplined and within their roles - except for, of course, Booker and Oubre. Gotta make a move one way or another. Rubio, in a system that allows booker to dominate the ball for 20+ seconds is useless and so are Ayton and Bridges.
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Re: Game 68: Phoenix Suns @ Washington Wizards, Friday 07/31/20, 1:00 PM PT 

Post#257 » by sunsbg » Sun Aug 2, 2020 2:27 pm

LesGrossman wrote:
sunsbg wrote:
LesGrossman wrote:I'm not saying Iso cant work. I'm saying Booker isnt the guy who can pull it off. He is great at other things, and i want him to focus on those. I'm fine with him scoring 40 every night as long as he plays within the offense and takes good shots. But the moment he stops the flow, doesnt make quick decisions, starts to dribble backwards and wave off screens, because he thinks hes Kobe or MJ, that is not going to work. That is a lost posession because most of the time it will not result in points, and if it does its almost as bad because it encourages him to continue that crap.


He is not Kobe or MJ, but he's not a worse 1-on-1 player than VanVleet or Lowry either.

That said, I'll like to see him play more like the guys you mentioned above and become a 40%+ 3PT shooter, which he's capable of.

Also if you as the offensive coordinator / HC decide to run iso heavy offense you need to structure your roster accordingly. The Raptors and celtics are built that way. The suns on the other hand are built assist-heavy with guys who play rather disciplined and within their roles - except for, of course, Booker and Oubre. Gotta make a move one way or another. Rubio, in a system that allows booker to dominate the ball for 20+ seconds is useless and so are Ayton and Bridges.


Yep, the team is yet to build an identity and it's a learning process for all players. Another guy learned to shoot 3s, I hope Booker learns to play in a more team-oriented fashion and we don't have to constantly talk about trading him. He's still young.

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